its been a year and a half since DDay. H stopped all contact after i found out.
H insists it was only an EA. even though he slept at her house.<p>last week H confessed to in fact kissing her... or her kissing him rather... he says he pushed her away..(yeha right) anyhow i asked him why he never told me this before. H insists that he did tell me... however i think i would have remembered something like that. i told him flat out that i didnt believe he pushed her away he then H proceeds to use me as her (WTF is he thinking???!!!)) and in fact showed me how he pushed her away.
Since he told me i have been unable to look at my H without thinking of this "stolen kiss". its like being back at DDay. H doesnt understand why i am withdrawn i didnt want to bring up his A and tell him how this has recently affected me.... my doc put me on celexa a month ago for depression but it doesnt seem to be helping. all i can think about is H and OW i have a very bad feeling theres more he isnt telling me. i know that i will never get anything more out of him and i resent the fact that i will never TRUELY know what went on between them. Its just heartbreaking to me to know that my marriage is the state that it is currently in and i havent even been married for 3 years yet. I love my h very much but i do not hold out hope for a long life with him.<p>is this normal to be so nergative about such a new marriage? i wish there was a pill to make me forget.<p>i wish there was a way to get all the answers. <p>i wish for alot of things.<p>[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: LuvOnTheRox ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Since he told me i have been unable to look at my H without thinking of this "stolen kiss". its like being back at DDay <hr></blockquote><p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>all i can think about is H and OW i have a very bad feeling theres more he isnt telling me. i know that i will never get anything more out of him and i resent the fact that i will never TRUELY know what went on between them. <hr></blockquote><p>No offense, but if you want the truth to eventuallly come out, you are going to have to control your reactions better. It you can't control your reactions, then for the sake of your marriage, you are probably better off not knowing. And for the record, my OW tried to kiss my WH once and he pushed her back, so it does happen. She backed off and worked on him another 2 weeks before trying again. Unfortunately the second time he did not back off. (she did kind of have him cornered, but that's no excuse - really the fog is the only "excuse" or "explanation" he has.) He told me everything up front and he did not have sex with her. So don't imagine the worst. I think many of the emotions us BSs go through (if not all) are equal whether there was actual sex or not.<p>I also understand about it being like D-Day all over again. Give it time, you will move past this new detail too.

Not to scare you, but my H also insisted that he never kissed, touched, etc. his OW who was my former best friend. They both insisted NOTHING happened. Didn't even hold hands! <p>Well, that was 6 years ago. I just recently found out that it was a sexual affair including IN MY BED which has broken my heart. WS's lie all of the time to cover themselves and their mistakes. They often don't want to pay the consequences for their actions.<p>If you haven't gone to counseling, I really think you need to. He told me in front of our counselor because he felt 'safe' there. Ask your H to go and tell him to be prepared to discuss the A. It's almost impossible to recover without counseling. Good luck.

H has refused to see a MC or IC. I told H that i thought that i should see a IC if he didnt want to go to MC. H's reply, "What do you need counceling for?"
H just doesnt seem to understand how this has affected me. The Medication im on isnt helping me much and half the time im close to tears. Every now an then H will apoligize again for his affair but I dont want to hear Im sorry i want him to contribute to repairing the damage. H thinks you can sweep it under the carpet and it will go away; however it might for him. He doesnt seem to take it as serious as i do. however if the table was turned he would be devestated and heartbroken like i stillam.
I am so depressed with my marriage that there are even times i say, "why am I still here?", i get so withdrawn that at times i wish he would have another affair just so i could end all this heartbreak and misery for myself, my warped mind thinks that the pain would be alot shorter and over and done with rather than this drawn out heartbreaking agony i am in...

Luv,
There are so many parallels in our story that it is scary. Go read my thread titled "OW #2 just came out of the woodwork." Our recovery has been almost completely hampered to the point of divorce over his withholding facts. <p>The facts will come out, one way or another. But it is crucial that they come out early and come out FULLY in order for the marriage to recover. <p>Otherwise, they come out in dribs and drabs and simply tear down the marriage. Every drib that comes out puts you and he back at square 1 until the marriage is destroyed. <p>That is what has happened to me. We did not die from one wound, but from a thousand tiny cuts inflicted over 18 months. My H finally understands the enormous damage he has caused to our marriage by releasing information in this manner. It is very possible that our marriage will not survive this latest drib, but had he got it all out initially, I could have absorbed the shock all at once and moved on.<p>He needs to understand that this is information that you have an absolute right to know. He has no right to withhold this information from you. You have a right to know what kind of man you are with, the good bad and the ugly so you can make an informed decision about the future of YOUR LIFE. You have a right to know WHO you are with.

There are 2 sources that should prove to your Husband that sweeping it under the rug is a major mistake. The first is the book Torn Asunder by Dave Carder. The other is an article "Shattered Vows' at findarticles.com<p>My H also didn't really understand my view until he read these, and then he realized how wrong he was for witholding information.<p>Believe me, it's much harder to process when you find out months/years later. Also harder to forgive. Make some boundaries/consequences if he refuses to talk to you.<p>If he won't go to counseling, it WILL help if you go alone. Good luck

Thanks everyone for your time and understanding. I feel better knowing that there are people out there who i can lean on. I emailed that shattered vows to my H we will se eif he reads it or gets anything from it.
Hope everyone out there has a wonderful motheres day!
Luv,
Roxy

Well after 3 days H finally checked his mail and found the link to "Shattered Vows" after he opened the page, he bookmarked it and the closed the browser. This to me shows he isnt really intersted in reading the article. and probrably doesnt care what it has to say.<p>this is really all i need,, another reason to see that he doesnt really care how this affected me.<p>ALthough yesterday he did say he knew it was his fault i was on antidepressants. i asked him what he thought he should do about it. his reply... was call the doc and tell her to increase the dosage.<p>later he said he was sorry for being an [censored] all the time.and that he knew he was a jerk for the past few months. I replied by saying ," if you know how you are... why dont you do something to change it if you see how this is hurting me and my recovery??".. he said he couldnt help himself...that he was tired all the time.<p>so i guess this means i have to just take it.
i have no way to change him
hes refusing counciling.
he dont care that my life has been torn apart for the past 2 yrs due to his actions and how this has depressed me so much that i am actually on medication for it.<p>if you love someone dont you try to make them happy?<p>... do you snap and argue with them like h and i do?<p>if this is love ................i'd rather not.<p>[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: LuvOnTheRox ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> he said he couldnt help himself...that he was tired all the time. <hr></blockquote><p>Is this true, or just an excuse? Surely you've been tired before and realize that if he's stressed out with work for example, or isn't getting much sleep, that his mind and body will not function well. Or by tired does he mean discouraged? I think my WH gets discouraged when nothing he tries to do seems to pull me up from my slumps. When I begin to see this frustration in his eyes, I try even harder to get through the down spell so that we can have some enjoyable times again. You do realize that no matter how much he tries to redeem himself, he can not EARN your forgiveness. I understand you need to see remorse in order to grant forgiveness. But no one earns forgiveness, it's freely given. Forgiveness says, "Even though you've hurt me, even though you don't deserve this, even though this is what you want (forgiveness) from someone you've been very unkind and inconsiderate to, I give it to you. Your slate is clean. I will not hold this over your head." Of course you'll never forget it, and you'll take steps to prevent it, but YOU are the only, the only (!!!!) person who can forgive him. Have you?

What happens when you cant forgive?<p>I have tried so hard for 2 years now and i say it doesnt matter cause hes still with me and not her and should be happy that i was chosen.... when i get like this all i can think of I shouldnt have been in the spot to have to be chosen from. <p>I cannot forgive i have tried and failed.

Forgiveness is a process that BEGINS with the offending party, NOT the betrayed. Using the BS and WS as examples of the process, the steps are as follows (from Luke 15:17-22--the story of the Prodigal Son):<p>

• Realization: The WS needs to "come to himself" the way the Prodigal Son did. He opened his eyes to what he had done and fully appreciated the value of all that he had thrown away. I believe also that part of this step is the WS having empathy for the pain s/he caused the BS, which is obviously how the Prodigal Son came to the next step.
• Resolution: The Prodigal Son came up with a PLAN to restore his R with his father and resolved to follow through on it. He fully grasped what he had done, took full responsibility for it, and resolved to verbalize this to his father. In WS terms, this is what the thinking process would be: "I have sinned against heaven and before you, my spouse, and am no more worthy to be called thy spouse..." This attitude should be readily apparent and demonstrated in the next step.
• Repentance: This involves turning from the sin and following a course of action to avoid the sin in the future and to do what is necessary to restore the R that was harmed. In WS terms, it means ending the A and following all of the extraordinary precautions Dr. Harley suggests in SAA (the first of which is "WS should reveal information about the A to the BS").
• Return: The Prodigal Son initiated action to get himself back to his father. He got up out of the pigpen and made his way home. The father did not come and find him and drag him back home. He did it all of his own volition. The WS needs to make his way back to the BS. He's the one who left the M; he's the one who needs to return to the M.
• Reconciliation: This is where the BS responsibility in the process begins. Please note that there are 4 preceding steps that the WS took BEFORE the BS had any responsibility for forgiving the WS. Probably since his son's departure, his father had been looking down the road, hoping for his son's return. As soon as he sees him and knows he is on his way home, he runs to him and falls on his neck and kisses him. In BS terms, she does her part to reconnect as well and expresses love for the WS and reveals her readiness to forgive. This is when the WS verbalizes to the BS his previous realization of the depth of his sin against her. So, the BS meets the WS AFTER the WS has realized what he has done, resolved to do something about it, repented, and returned to the BS.
• Re-clothing: The Prodigal's father orders the best robe be put on his son, a ring on his finger, and shoes on his feet, i.e. clothes him as his son again. NOW is when the responsibility for the process shifts solely to the BS, and not before. Few people have trouble forgiving when all of the previous steps have been demonstrated by the WS. If the BS refuses to forgive at this juncture, then the BS will be in sin. Until the WS follows the steps that bring him "home", the BS has nothing to do but hope and pray that the Prodigal will return.
• Rejoicing: After all of the above has been done, then there can be great rejoicing in the restored R. The WS and BS together can rebuild their M.

<p>Of course, there are probably many things the BS needs to follow these steps for as well in order to restore the M. God is so perfect, and he always does everything "decently and in order". There is no need nor obligation to second guess him and do things out of order. Don't require more of yourself than God requires of you--it will only frustrate and dismay you because you can never be more powerful than God. God forgives repentant sinners. God does not forgive the unrepentant. To assume we are even capable of doing what God himself doesn't even do is folly.<p>When your time of action comes, I have every confidence that you will be able to forgive, but you cannot force your H to follow all the preceding steps by attempting to follow your part of the process first. If you go running down the road, and your H isn't there yet, you will only add to your despair. Your responsibility at this point is to hope and pray and maintain a forgiving posture, ready to forgive when your H has followed all the steps of repentance.<p>[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Oh, KroniK, I liked your other name so much better. I posted on your other forgiveness thread, but this is the resource I use for forgiveness, which is identical to the one my Christian counselor used with me:<p>Subj: Neil Anderson Devotional for Tuesday, April 30, 2002
neilanderson.UM.A.3.24176@lists.crosswalk.com (Crosswalk.com)<p>N E I L A N D E R S O N D A I L Y D E V O T I O N A L
from Freedom in Christ Ministries<p>April 30<p>
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE COST OF FORGIVENESS<p>Forgive your brother from your heart (Matthew 18:35 NIV).<p>Forgiveness is agreeing to live with the consequences of another
person's sin. Forgiveness is costly; we pay the price of the evil
we forgive. Yet you're going to live with those consequences
whether you want to or not; your only choice is whether you will
do so in the bondage of bitterness or the freedom of forgiveness.
That's how Jesus forgave you--He took the consequences of your
sin upon Himself. All true forgiveness is substitutional, because
no one really forgives without bearing the penalty of the other
person's sin.<p>Why then do we forgive? Because Christ forgave us. God the Father
"made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might
become the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:21).
Where is the justice? The cross makes forgiveness legally and
morally right: "For the death that He died, He died to sin, once
for all" (Romans 6:10).<p>How do you forgive from the heart? First, you acknowledge the
hurt and the hate. If your forgiveness doesn't visit the
emotional core of your past, it will be incomplete. This is the
great evangelical cover-up. Christians feel the pain of
interpersonal offenses, but we won't acknowledge it. Let God
bring the pain to the surface so He can deal with it. This is
where the healing takes place.<p>Ask God to bring to your mind those you need to forgive. Make a
list of all those who have offended you. Since God has forgiven
them by His grace, you can forgive them too. For each person on
your list, say: "Lord, I forgive (name) for (offenses)." Keep
praying about each individual until you are sure that all the
remembered pain has been dealt with. Don't try to rationalize or
explain the offender's behavior. Forgiveness deals with your
pain, not another's behavior. Remember: Positive feelings will
follow in time; freeing yourself from the past is the critical
issue.<p>Lord, I desire to be free from the hurt and the hate of offenses
in my past. Today I move beyond desiring to forgive and asking
Your help to forgive. Lord, I forgive _________ for ___________.