Is there any hope? Or is it something only our grandparents could hope for?<p>hugs, c

I wonder that myself.<p>I lurk, occasionaly post on your site. I have often had these thoughts. My grandmother is 83. My grandfather died when I was only a baby. My grandmother has never even been on a date in 31 years. She told me the one time I asked her why she never went out with anyone else, "I have had the love of my life. No one else will even compare. I have my childern, I have my grandchildern. I was loved and have loved. I can never ask for more." Now all I ask is that I find that.

I believe there's always hope, Clarkie.<p>If two boards on the Internet that are polar opposites can become compassionate and friendly enough to help each other understand, don't you think it's possible Fidelity or Monagamy is a possibility in our lifetimes?<p>Nice to see you over here. Hope you are well.<p>Jo

Hi Clarkie,<p>Good question.....just curious, why are you asking?<p>L.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by clarkie:
<strong>Is there any hope? Or is it something only our grandparents could hope for?<p>hugs, c</strong><hr></blockquote><p>It is a personnal choice ... it won't be easy and requires work on your part ... the other half is your SO. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . In short, yes, if you are willing to work on it to make it a reality. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

{{{{{{Clarkie}}}}}}<p>Well, you already know that I not only think that there's "hope"...but I believe it's the only way to go. I don't think that any SO comes with a guarentee (too bad on THAT one! LOL), but one can make decisions that sway the odds! Such as: <p>1) If SO is currently married...that kinda makes the "monogamy and fidelity" thingy a rather DEAD issue...if you know what I mean. <p>2) If SO is leaving a marriage to be with another, well, then we already know that SO has the capability of NOT being monogamous and faithful, so whether or not said SO can be faithful to another remains to be seen. (but the odds are definately lessened on this one [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ) <p>3) Even if a married person leaves a marriage for someone else, and remains faithful and loving towards the "new" mate....is this person worthy of devotion? Or is "soulmatiness" clouding the true picture of this person? (It only took me twice to get THIS one! LOL.. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] ) ie...Pay attention to what they DO...NOT what they say. <p>We all know the occasional story of a happy marriage that started out with one or both of the partners being married to someone else. This is SOOOOOOOOOOO rare!! They are usually happy for a time, but pretty soon reality rears it's ugly little head, and everything goes to hell. You know I am the POSTER CHILD for this crap!! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Is there any hope?<p>Damn, I hope so. This time around I actually tried to use my head in conjunction with my heart (will wonders never cease? LOL!) and it sure seems to be working! But I messed with the odds this time, by falling in love with a SG with no baggage, and very definate views on "right" and "wrong". We use this site as a way to keep communications open and honest (as you know), and to remind us how lucky both of us are! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hang in there, Clarkie! I know you would return to a store to give back miscounted change, for heaven's sake! So don't let the manipulations of others start messing with your head to the point of losing your faith in marriage and happiness. PLEASE!! There are a LOT of wonderful women out there, one of whom might be doing without the love of her life (uhhhhhhhh....that would be YOU), because your head, and your heart, and your time is all taken up with a sitution that is slowly leeching your life away. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] I know you are hurting, my friend, but please hold on to the knowledge that not EVERYBODY is as screwed up as we all seem to be. LOL.

clarkie,<p>From what I know it's a fantacy to believe that our granparents had monagamy/fidelity any more then people do today. Well except that in previous generations men were unfaithful far more often then women.<p>Women were generally taught to expect infidelity at some time in their marriage. Men were taught that all men stray sooner or later. The difference is that people kept their mouths shut about it. Women did not leave unfaithful husbands because they had no options. Men almost always dumped unfaithful wives because they were considered tramps.<p>Infidelity, unfortunately is a time honored underground part of society.<p>I find your post most curious. Since you are the moderator of the TOW (The Other Woman) board, aka www.gloryb.com, I can only wonder what this post of yours is all about. I thought that you accepted and condoned infidelty.

Our grandparents just covered it up better. Society winked at men, outcast women, and pretended the whole mess didn't exist.<p>Honestly - maybe I'm being very optimistic - but, as screwed up as our society seems to be - I also see more issues dealt with openly and directly.<p>I haven't cheated on my H, not because I am morally superior, but because I didn't have the opportunity.<p>Now, having been through his affair, we are both so much more educated on what being married entails, what a relationship takes, and how to avoid the pitfalls. <p>I can say now that I'm am very less likely to cheat now, because we are both taking steps to make our marriage safe for each other. Thats a HUGE protection from infidelity.<p>I think that more and more we are going to see realistic honest discussions about the hows, the whys, and the utter devastation of affairs on our society. Society doesn't change as fast as we individuals do, but since we are all part of society - I have alot of hope.

Well, I've been monogamous my entire life, so I can only assume that if *I* can do it, anyone can. I also know many other people who have been faithful to their SO's and never cheated on anyone. Some of us already have that reality, so we don't need hope.<p>There's nothing we can do about the others in the world who choose differently, so that part of the equation is hopeless.<p>I guess we can always hope that the nonmonogamous will decide to join the monogamous and make a decision for monogamy instead of against it.

I'm monagamous. I've been faithful.<p>Knowing what I know now of infidelity, I can't imagine that I will ever cheat on my husband.<p>I can only control my own actions. I know that I have my honor and honesty.<p>I feel pretty darn smug and virtuous right now. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Clarkie... HI! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>From "The Passionate Marriage" by Jeffery Schnarch:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> pg 311
Monogamy operates differently at different levels of differentiation I didn't know this until I saw it with my clients. WE think of monogamy as an ironclad agreement containing no ifs, ands, or buts. But it is really a complex system with rules and dynamics of its own. Differentiation changes monogamy by returning genital ownership to each partner. Emotional Siamese twins act as if their partner's genitals are communal property.<p>Monogamy is a prison when it's based on emotional fusion, for fusion shackles desire and prompts withholding as a means of reaffirming emotional boundaries. But monogamy per se is not the problem. The problem arises when we lack the differentiation necessary for the kind of monogamy we want. Monogamy between undifferentiated partners creates a sexual monopoly: the partner with the lower desire controls the supply and the price of sex . Deprivation and extortion flourish at low levels of differentiation in ways that dating and open marriage "free markets" won't allow.<p>Poorly differentiated couples approach monogamy as a promise to each other and later blame their spouse for their mutual deprivation pact. Some inflict the effects of personal (sexual) difficulties on their spouse. They justify this by citing their partner's shortcomings or saying,"Look, it's happening to me too!" The get so good at inflicting their problems on their partner that they overlook the fact that they enjoy the act of inflicting per se.<p>Some spouses wield monogamy like a bludgeon, battering their partner with their commitment in ways never intended by marriage vows. They say, "You promised to love me for better and for worse--and that includes my (sexual) limitation!" Yes, we all marry "for better and for worse," but the assumption is that spouses will do everything possible to overcome their limitations--not simply demand that their partner put up with them!<p>Although many of us lack sufficient differentiation for the kind of monogamy we want, the monogamy we have often provides the crucible in which we develop ti. Like a pressure cooker, monogamy harnasses pressures and tensions that produce differentiation. Absence of other sex partners, along with disparate sexual desire and styles, drives spouses towards gridlock. This forces the two-choice dilemma of self-confrontationn/self-validation vs. normal marital sadism. <p>Monogamy operates differently in highly differentiated couples, it stops being a ponderous commitment to one's partner (or "the relationship) and becomes a commitment to oneself. The relationship is driven more by personal integrity and mutual respect than by reciprocal deprivation or bludgeoning. It's no longer your partner's fault you don't have sex with other people; it's part of your decision to be monogamous And the pressures of disparate sexual desire come with your decision, too. HAVING AN AFFAIR BECOMES MORE A SELF-BETRAYAL THAN A BETRAYAL OF YOUR PARTNER. (since you promised yourself and not him). <p><hr></blockquote>

Clarkie,<p>Since you posted the Q here, I second Qrchid for asking you, why ask ?. I do not want to judge your MO. Have you seen Unfaithfull ? ... The only part that the movie try to say is Diana Lane could have walked away from the french bastrad but did not. It is a choice ...<p>-RH-