OK, that other post was getting too long, so am starting another one.<p>Odile, Doc and those of you who care or have been keeping up with me: Here's the WHOLE story. It will help us all communicate a little better. And will help you all see exactly what went on.<p>Timeline:
01/86 -- wedding
07/90 – first child
10/92 – second child
09/93 – my best friend died
09/93 – my parents divorce (28 yrs)
11/95 – H heart condition
01/96 - in the midst of bumpy roads w/ H
01/96 – moved to new town – EF started very soon after
02/00 - my depression sat in, EF at it’s height
03/00 - began counseling for co-dependancy and began healing from busyness (now am completely healed finding joy in caring for my girls and hubby)
05/01 – confessed to counselor, H and OM
05/01-11/01 tremendous healing in marriage, no EF
12/01 – family crisis
03/02-present – I’m fighting EF badly again<p>
Everything was great, awesome, for the first 8 years of our marriage. We married FOR LIFE – AND WE MEAN IT!!!! (But ya know since I’ve become older and wiser, I realize that this promise could possible get broken, hummm). When the kids came along (especially the 2nd) is when things got bumpy (and now I know that my husband was having a very hard time sharing so much of me with the kids). Our sex life began to be affected, and we had a very good one, very good. After the second child I totally quit working at a very prominent computer firm. I did very well there -- as an admin to high-level execs. Got lots of awards, some financial and lots of pats on the back. I was an outstanding worker, and I did, come to find out, REALLY get most of my self-esteem from there.<p>So when my second child was one I began working as a teacher at a mother's day out program. It wasn’t long before I was really enjoying that. And before I knew it was putting my whole heart and soul into teaching. BTW, I hadn’t mentioned that these first years of my marriage I was a perfectionist on cleaning the house, cooking well-balanced meals and keeping the laundry done, etc. I was also a perfectionist on how much time I played with the kids . . . . and it goes on. Anyhow, I put more and more of myself into teaching and eventually volunteering as the girls enter public school. All the while trying to keep the balance of the perfect home, perfect mom and even “the perfect wife” as I “made sure” I “checked off” time with H!! (poor guy – he was on my checklist!!). This kind of behavior continued by me until about 2 ½ years ago. Actually increasing, head of the three’s department at a huge church, women’s ministry leader, gave teaching seminars at a university 4 hours away, then took food to the sick, cared for other’s kids, ran a campfire girls club (actually two at once!), blah blah blah, until I was red in the face . . . all the while keeping things on the homefront “perfect”. <p>Also, during that time, we went thru some life changing events, my best friend died of cancer leaving her H w/ a 4yr old and a new born, my parents divorced after 28 years of marriage (right at the same time my friend died), husband got ill with a heart condition (that’s just the biggies). <p>ALL thru this time, we were faithful to work on our marriage. Marriage workshops/classes, communicated to one another, etc. Hubby would voice concerns over my busyness, I’d “cut back”, but before I knew it I was in the same boat again. All the while thinking, “he doesn’t care much about me anyhow”, he loves me, but he doesn’t cherish me – at least he sure didn’t show it. We talked about meeting one another’s’ needs, and would try for a while, but it just didn’t stick. And really, in my mind, meeting his needs was translated to me as sex, sex, SEX! Toyed around the idea of going to counseling, but never did. So we both grew resentful, very resentful and this began to build (nothing new in marriages, I know). <p>About 3 ½ years ago, I quit teaching, quit volunteering at the school, quit leading Campfire clubs . . . quit EVERYTHING . . . except being the women’s ministry leader at our large church. Really we were all doing well – H was really happy and so was I. We struggled some, but were really making a go of it. <p>About a year later an illness of mine swooped me off my feet and down into the pits of depression. I won’t give all the details on that – bottom line – med change after med change and tons of counseling still didn’t help until finally in 08/01 when we finally got the right combo of everything and I was finally “normal” again.<p>HOWEVER, during the depression (began 02/00) I allowed myself to become emotionally attached to the OM I told you about in my other post. He was in ministry at our church and he counseled me twice. Later I began stopping by his office often to chat, then writing cards, letters and emails – and more and more emails each week. That’s when it the two-way communication began more – emails and him checking on me thru my depression by grabbing me in the hall at church, or whatever.<p>Later, my counselor got me to admit this little fantasy of me and him had actually been going on for around 3 years (so five years now). It was just that the increased communication didn’t begin until my depression began. The OM had lots of good advice and had been thru similar stuff that led to my breakdown (doing TOO much – ignoring family). I’d also bounce things off him my counselor said – I trusted his opinion more. Plus my husband was an emotional wreck by now after all we’d been thru and didn’t have it in him to support me emotionally<p>I began counseling with my counselor 3/00 – I finally told her in 05/01 the turmoil I was in over the sin in my life. See, I knew it was wrong – I’d talk to God about it – I’d intend to stop and two days later would cave again. This cycle went on from the time my depression began – stopped when I finally told the OM, my H and counselor 05/01. It stopped for nearly 6 months. Husband received and still has all passwords, etc. now. I was soooooooo close to God during that time. AND my husband and I went thru counseling – it turned our marriage around. Our marriage was on fire – we were soooo in love. Now I have recently gone down the dark path once again – beginning about two months ago.<p>The reason the OM and I recently began emailing so much is because of the ministry we are in AND another terrible thing that happened in my family – the OM cared – I would keep him updated – he provided emotional support. The funny thing is – this EF was ONE sided – I was having and EF with him, but he was not with me. HOWEVER, my counselor (after reading the correspondence and hearing the details) feels he did enjoy it quite a bit. Now this time I get the feeling he is enjoying it even more.<p>My husband is fairly close to him also – isn’t that how it always goes? It was weird when I confessed to everyone – very hard. Also, he never told his wife – this has happened before in his ministry – he felt strong enough NOT to tell her.<p>So now we’re back to where I began posting here – I am tempted everyday by this, but I WANT TO STOP. THEN there are days when the devil waves it right in front of my face and I want it again. But, in reality, I want my marriage, I want to treasure my husband and for him to treasure me again. But when I’m emotionally attached to someone else, it’s impossible.<p>Thanks for reading --- if you are still here. Now you have the details. Much easier to advise, I’m sure.<p>foreverhis<p>[ May 13, 2002: Message edited by: foreverhis ]</p>

Foreverhis,<p>I read your post and wonder what to tell you. I really don't know what to say, but I will some observations.<p>1. You being in this affair means you aren't the mother you think you are to your children.<p>2. You need to realize your H won't always be with you and you continue to waste time that can never be recovered. <p>I truely hope that his health and your health is fine now, but you need to recall that life is temporal. Don't waste it having a fantasy affair.<p>I do hope you have read or will read His Needs Her Needs by Harley. I suspect it might help.<p>However, I cannot help observing that you seem to have a compulsive type approach to things. Your need to be soooo busy, to be a perfectionist (while not being very perfect) should be of some concern to you. I realize you have a counselor, but is this person addressing your overall approach to life and where it is coming from??<p>You cannot keep doing this to your H and expect his love for you to survive. It sounds like life hasn't been a bowl of cherries for him either, and to have a wife keep attaching to someone else will gradually destroy him and thereby your family.<p>This is not something you are going to get over by yourself. Your OM is the LAST person you should be talking to or seeking advice from. He can no longer be consider to be a member of the clergy, or the staff or whatever in your church. He is a man that has and is failing his marriage just as you are. He is far too close to you to be allowed to help you.<p>Hang in there ForeverHis, find someone, a female, to talk to.<p>I wish I could offer more advice but it eludes me right now.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

Dear Foreverhis-
Thank you for being so candid in revealing your own personal history - that must have taken a lot of courage, since you earlier expressed the fear of being recognized on this board - don't worry! It's a big board, world-wide - and it's amazing how remarkably similar stories can be!<p>I have to choose my words carefully here, because it's difficult to tell what your 'busyness' as your husband called it is really a symptom of, and I'm not a doctor. Lots of women these days feel the pressure to be the perfect everything and end up taking on way too much, especially after they have children - I really do think societal pressure plays a role here and every woman needs to sort out her priorities for herself, but this can be a painful process. If you are a Christian, as I am, and involved in your Church - you know that there is ALWAYS something to do that needs someone to do it - there never seem to be enough volunteers to do everything - always a little core of people with their finger in every pot, and it's SOOOO hard to say no when you feel it's your Christian duty to help. I have been in this position myself - I ran our Church's mother/toddler group for 4 years and consequently was asked to be on the parish council representing Marriage Care and Family Ministry (! - what did I know?!), be part of the committee raising funds to put an elevator in our church hall, run the school library, head the PTFA, join the Mother's Union, join the St Vincent de Paul Society, be a school governor - well, you get the idea. <p>It's hard to make that switch from career to mother and STILL feel appreciated - how many times did I scream that being a SAHM was a thankless task and no-one appreciated what I was doing for them? I understand the need to get affirmation of yourself as a person from other sources.<p>Still, I think you really need to look at the pattern of activity and collapse in your life, which it seems like you are doing in counselling. There are underlying reasons why you charge into activity at full speed, then you collapse under the pressure you have put on yourself. From what you say, it sounds like you have a husband who loves you, but your 'busyness' is a big issue for him - he wants to be there in the equation, a big part of the equation, not just on the sidelines - this is appropriate in a marriage - but he has become exhausted by your ups and downs. His emotional distance from you may be his way of coping, not knowing where you are going to go next - I have found the Mars and Venus books by John Gray VERY VALUBLE at understanding my H's emotional frame of mind.<p>As to why you go through this cycle, I can't say, I can only speak to you from my own experience - perhaps you experience some kind of cyclic depression, perhaps not. In my case, I have experienced one bout of depression brought on by stress, (in my mid 20's - treated with Xanax for 3 mos, followed by 1 yr of IC and group therapy), then, after i was married, I suffered Post-Natal Depression following the birth of each of my sons (2nd time treated with Prozac - 3 yrs) - I also suffer from SAD - Seasonal Affective Disorder - I get this in the dark winter months and use a "light box" to wake up my brain first thing in the morning in the winter.<p>In my family, my brother was schizophrenic (died 1 yr ago), my cousin and aunt both manic-depressive - my SIL was manic-depressive (died in Nov 01) - my stepmother's family - she is one of 4 siblings, 1 sister manic-depressive, 1 sister, 1 brother schizophrenic. Believe me - I have seen a lot!!! I'm NOT NOT NOT saying you have any of these problems - what I am saying is that cyclic depression comes in many shades of grey - mine is a mild form - but it has been very hard for my H to deal with - I belive it has been a factor in driving my H into an EA with someone else.<p>But you are obviously becoming aware that your E need for this other man is connected to this cycle of up and down in your life - and (am I right in understanding that he is a member of the clergy) it would have been natural for you to turn to him as a father figure at a time of crisis. Be that as it may, he HAS a wife, and you have a husband who loves you. But maybe what your marriage needs is the right kind of focus in your counselling - to help your husband understand better how to deal with the dynamics at work here - it seems to be that could only be beneficial for both of you. <p>This is long, and I hope you haven't taken any of it the wrong way. I am praying for strength for you - I wish my H and I had had better (ANY!) support care during my depressive episodes.<p>Odile

OOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPS!!<p>Forgot an important part . . . I am HEALED of all the busyness -- it's COMPLETELY GONE!!!<p>Yes, I love my girls and I have switched my focus from OUTSIDE the family to INSIDE beginning about 6 months prior to 02/00. I have changed 110% as has my husband, however, he still doesn't know how to support me emotionally -- he listens -- but doesn't seem to care (my opinion).<p>So, I no longer volunteer at the school -- keeping my self open for IMPORTANT functions to attend FOR my daughters. I am NO longer the Women's Ministry Leader, not teaching classes, not compulsively taking food to the sick. Ok, you get the point.<p>I just forgot to include that important part of my story.<p>Yes, I have read His Needs/Her Needs and attended a 6 week course. I've read Five Languages of Love and nearly every popular book out there to help myself. I've read The Snare (by Rabey) and Every Man's Battle by (Arterburn & Stoiker). BTW Every M's Battle has helped the most lately in helping me understand WHY I want this EF and HOW to get out.<p>I've also read Co-Dependant No More. And that is me now -- I can say "No". [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Praise God!<p>As far as the OM not being a man in ministry (doesn't deserve it -- whatever), did I mention in this post that this is such a one sided deal.<p>Well, I guess he gives his compliments and support (so maybe it's not), but from what me and two counselor's can gather it is. Matter of fact one of THE best counselor's in our area who only sees people with sexual addictions/affairs in marriages told me I had more of a crush. Whatever it is -- God knows my heart when I'm thinking of the OM and it's total blackness!!!<p>OK -- hope this clears some stuff up -- sorry to have forgotten that important stuff!<p>foreverhis

Odile,<p>BTW, no I did not take your post the wrong way -- I appreciate your concern over me.<p>My depression is chemical -- will probably deal w/ it all my life now that it's been 2.5 years and it's not gone. I'm on lots of meds. Also diagnosed bipolar and possible ADD. Actually I think it's more ADD than bipolar.<p>OK -- that's all for now -- foreverhis

Dear Foreverhis,
I'm SO glad you didn't take my post the wrong way - and your second part of your story puts your experience more in balance - thank you for being so open and honest - it takes guts to reveal this kind of thing - I know!<p>I think you're very brave to be doing what you're doing - trying to fight what you know is an inappropriate attraction to someone other than your H, and you deserve a lot of credit for looking for all the ways you can think of to try to grapple with this -<p>The best way is to work on your marriage - i still think that despite all the attention you have given to your marriage, these things take time and need lots of 'tinkering' - perhaps if you take the ideas presented on this site one at a time and discuss them with your counselor, who can help you find practical ways to implement them, you may find that six months from now, you will be in a much better space, both with yourself, and with your H. <p>Just one thing you said - I think you said your H is a good listener, you just think he doesn't care. People don't listen if they don't care. He can't be both at the same time. Sounds like you are angry with him for not expressing himself - a lot of men don't need to express their feelings - we women do, and think there's something wrong with them if they don't. I don't personally think that if he's not a talker that means there's something wrong with him - it's very likely that this is just something he needs help learning how to do, and this is also something you could ask your counselor to help you with - to try to find ways that "evoke" a response from him, instead of expecting or demanding one from him. LOL Believe me, I'm still working on this myself - but since I have accepted that my H really DOESN'T need to discuss his feelings in the same way I do, I view him differently, and see the other things he does for me that are loving.
I hope I have managed to explain this clearly.<p>I wish you well. My H and I are also Christians and I believe that Christ will hold you up, if you let Him. Last year, I cried out to my Christian friend that all I could see was the Devil's hands outstretched to catch my H falling, and she said to me - "Look - what do you really believe? Change those hands and see Christ's hands waiting to catch Him as He falls!" - Christ made a promise that not a single one of those whom the Father had given to Him would be lost - I have a vision of what I think would be a "good" life for my H - but our Lord knows what is best for my H, and His vision for my H is so much greater than mine - although I am in a lot of pain right now b/c of my H's behaviour, I am trying to be steady for him - he has started counselling, and has chosen a professional Christian counselling psychotherapy centre - going on his own first (has had 3 sessions - goes to 4th tomorrow) - this tells me he wants to be held accountable for himself and is looking for someone to help him - but ALSO, he wants to be forgiven - so that will have to come in time, too. I am sure that although Christ is there for me while I go through this, Christ is bending His Spirit after my lost sheep of a H, and that is what He came to do - <p>Try to take your mind off fighting the demons, and put your mind back on Christ - recite your own prayer over and over in your heart whenever you feel obsessive about contacting this guy - that's what has helped me most. Do you get what I'm trying to say?<p>God bless and keep up the good work.
Odile

Yep, I get it odile -- I'm gonna go on about my day with my praise music on and my eyes on Jesus!<p>Love,
foreverhis