My WW is quitting her job this week (so she says)so that she will not be around OM. She will be a stay at home mom now. This is a very positive thing.<p>I Plan A'd all weekend with very little or no response. She is soooo cold to me now. This Plan A stuff just totally zaps my strength when I get no reaction from her.<p>I thought I did a good job with Mother's Day: brought her flowers Friday after work, gave her a couple nice presents, watched the kids all weekend (even when she was home I took this burden off her), made French Toast for her Sunday morning, she went to get a massage/manacure (last years Mother's day gift), gave her a full body massage (1.5 hours worth) Sunday night, and champaign. Even with all of this, she still seam to stay as far away from me as possible this weekend. When we went to my brother's graduation part, she even did her best to find a seat away from me. Well I did not stand for that, I moved my plate to sit next to her. In the house, she busys herself with other things so that she does not have to be around me.<p>I am tired of this. I am beginning to think I do not want her back. I am beginning to think that she is not capable of filling my EN's. I am tired of trying to make love to her, and I am no longer going to try. Even when we do start, I end of doing something not so comfortable for her, and the moment is lost for both of us. Like the other night, I bit her nipple just a tiny bit too hard (oops). We should have been able to recover from that, not a chance.<p>I think she is planning another rendevous with OM tonight. She says she is going to pick up her laptop today. If I get some hard evidence she does see him, I am gone. <p>I will not continue to let her abuse me. I have been a great husband through all of this and I no longer feel like being her husband when she has no desire to be my Wife. I need to protect what is left of my tiny bit of love for her.<p>It is a shame I can not tell her my true feelings right now. That is the terrible thing about this Plan A crap. I have got to pretend all the time and I am not like that. I always have been honest and open to her about all of my feelings. I just feel like telling her ship up or I am out.<p>I hope she gets out of this fog and funk soon. I am not going to continue this Plan A for much longer. I am not as strong as the rest of you on this site.

Dreamland<p>I am sorry your weekend was not that good. I don't have any tremendous advice to give you, I'm in the same boat.<p>I would say that her leaving the job is a big step. She may be cold toward you as my WW is most of the time, but just think about everything that is going through her mind. She is not sure how she feels toward you, she is not sure how she feels toward the OM, and on top of it all she is leaving her job.<p>Plan A is giving her more to think about also. My wife resents that I am meeting her ENs and tries to minimize our contact. Like you I don't know how much of the cold shoulder I can take, but I like to think of it this way. She looked elsewhere becasue the grass seemed greener there. As long as I am working a good plan A, the grass where I am will be green and keep getting healthier. I don't expect my wife to see this right away, but I hope at some point she sees it or if I go to plan B the fog lifts enough for her to make an honest evaluation of what is good for her (this may not be the same thing as what I want, but it is her choice).<p>I can't predict things will get better soon since your wife will be undergoing major life changes including leaving her job and being at home with the kids. But I think you should hold on and see how she does with all of these changes. I know it is difficult but her life is more confused than your in some ways. <p>As dificult as it, I would say give her the space to deal with everything on her mind. I think plan A is working for you, but it will take a lot of time. I want my wife to suddenly say she wants to work on things, but that just isn't going to happen. Waiting while things are in limbo is tough, but you do potentially have a big step in the right direction with her leaving the job.<p>By the way I have been having some of the same issues sexually with my WW. All as I can say start with just trying to be close and affectionate and other plan A things. I realize this may not be easy, my wife doesn't let me near her most of the time. But I can say that the few times when Plan A has made her feel slightly good about me, we have had better luck sexually.<p>[ May 13, 2002: Message edited by: onwardandup ]</p>

You are a lot stronger than you think!!! You are here looking for advice and your doing plan A. As everyone keeps telling me we can't give up and you have to look at her actions.... He let you give her that body massage for a hour and a half - she must have enjoyed it... I know the feeling of being abused. My H just takes and takes and gives me nothing in return and I often wonder to myself why the heck I'm doing this.. I'm not a doormat that he can just use when he needs something but then he will do that one nice thing for me and it keeps me hanging on for a little bit longer... Dont give up yet, the "fog" has not lifted but if she is still at home and letting you do these things for her it is good.... She wants it but doesnt know how to take it... If she is quitting her job I would take that as a great step (I would Kill to get my WS to quit his)<p>I wish you luck - This has to be the hardest thing we've ever had to do in our lives but in the end we will know that we did everything we could to make our Marriages work and its not our fault if they dont!

Dear Dreamland,
i am sorry your weekend wasn't ok, me being the mother LOL [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] it was ok. Hang in there. i know how you feel been there, still am, wondering if that bank is ever going to get any depositis. i keep telling myself, with or without him i will be ok. it is the only way i keep going. and this site of course. By the way you encouraged me the other day, THANKS

She's in withdrawal. Cut her a break. She's not going to jump straight from OM to meeting all of your needs.<p>Read up on withdrawal and how hard it is for WS.<p>Anytime I ended contact with OM, it made me feel angry and resentful towards H. He was the reason for me feeling the loss and unhappiness I felt, and frankly at that point in time he wasn't worth it to me. So seeing him being gleeful or happy or trying to approach me was like approaching a wounded bear.<p>[ May 13, 2002: Message edited by: Lexxxy ]</p>

onwardandup,<p>I have been keeping up with your story, and I wanted to know what you did for your WW on Mother's Day? I know you were considering doing nothing. I felt like doing nothing for Mother's day myself. I think I did things more for me than her.<p>Right now, I do not feel like trying anymore. I have almost no strength left. I am 30 years old and I am thinking that I am NOT too old to start over, and maybe it is time to start thinking about finding a woman that will make me feel good instead of the way my WW has made me feel the past 2 years. Don't get me wrong, I have never felt as good before in my life as the way she made me feel long ago. She has made me a better person and I have had so much fun with her in the past.<p>I can remember how much it hurt me the first time she said she did not even like me anymore. That was almost 1-1/2 year ago, I think before the A even began. I have been feeling so unhappy for so long, I have lost my smile. <p>I just talked to my friend and he is giving me hell for being in this funk today. He says I need to start doing things for myself that make me happy. I guess I will try to working out again. That always gave me such a high. It is just so hard to do anything new now. I have nothing that motivates me anymore.<p>Good luck to you, and try posting for yourself more often.

Dreamland<p>I updated my thread on just found out, and can say my weekend was slightly better. Unfortunately, her comments this morning about the OM's son realy made me mad. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I do think doing things for yourself is a good idea. While my wife is out of town next weekend, a friend will be visiting and we are going to a soccer match (my favorite sport). A few weeks ago I could hardly bring myself to buying the tickets, but I realy looking forward to it.<p>My marriage has also been troubled for a long time (2 years). I can remember in the past when she told me that she thought we were not well matched as a couple (I think she said - incompatable). But I also do have good memories and this keeps me hanging on. I also feel that a new life (i'm 34) is possible with someone else, but that is a step I will not take until I see this thing through.<p>One of the things that keeps my strength up is to realize that even if my wife decides to attempt a reconciliation, I have a choice. If we go down that path it has to work for me along with working for her. I'm not sure if this possible for either of us, but I am still willing to try. I don't consdier thinking this way as bad, in some ways it makes me feel better, in that I am control of my happiness not her.<p>Just a final thought...I still think time is on your side, if you are willing to wait some more. Doing some things for yourself will help to make this easier. It may also show your wife that you are not dependent on her for all of your happiness. Someone who is happy with themselves and getting an occasional smile (I know this is hard) is probably more attractive.

Dreamland:<p>I'd only add that now, particularly since you've said you're "scared" about the prospect of going to plan B, you probably are more exhausted than "out of love" with your W. Does this make sense? In any case, probably the best thing to do is focus on something else. It's hard, I know (I've had a tough time, but managed when I needed to). In my case, it was getting more involved with my son's hobbies. We started building model planes together. That brought us closer, gave me something to think about, and gave my W something positive to see in her family that OM could never give her. I don't know anything about your family, but maybe you could put more energy into being with your kid(s) for a while, and let your W figure herself out (and wonder why things are going so well with you). In the end, you'll be better prepared for plan B if you have to go there.<p>Hope this helps,

DL,<p>Your wife is in the beginning stages of WD BIG time. Don't expect that much you do during this time to win you any points. I'm on tail end of WD now from ex-OM. Nothing my husband did during the height of it meant much to me. Not then. But it sure does now. I remembered all the nice things he does/did for me and my love counter is recalculating the totals after the fact. I look back now and think OM ain't so great. Husband aint so bad. What the hell was I thinking?! I am coming out of it but it took a months. I'm not completely out - it's a process and I wish I could give you benchmark of its end. I just haven't found it yet. <p>I agree with 2long, it sounds like you are exhausted not out of love. No man out of love gives a 1.5 hr. massage! And Lexy describes us WS in withdrawl very well, we really are wounded bears and if you come too close, we lash out. <p>Only time heals a broken heart. For me, ending A was extremely painful. It is like a death and one must be allowed to mourn that loss. If you are too happy go lucky and sweet to W now, it will be received alot like if you try and invite your best friend out for a few beers at their loved one's funeral.

cmiranda,
Thanks for your insight. One of the most important things is to know what my WW is feeling. Do you think my WW is going through withdrawls even if she is still talking to him around 5 to 10 hours a week and seeing him (just to talk I hope) once every other week? I believe that she is falling out of love with him slowly, but does that mean there is withdrawls? As the weeks go by, she talks to him less and less. <p>We talked this morning and she said she talked to OM earlier around 20 minutes or so. I would appreciate your perspective on this.

dreamland:<p>Wow! That's a lot of talking for W/D! <p>But, in a way, I could believe that at some level SHE may think this is W/D. My W is still in contact with her OM, but only via email and only a few times/month. She certainly doesn't fully realize just how much it still hurts that she's talking to him, though. True W/D, after the WS finally breaks all contact, will be very different that what you or I are experiencing now. <p>I guess, in truth, what your W is doing is ending the A in her own way. It's dying its natural death, and she may be reassuring her that she'll no longer have any attachment with her OM before she's willing to sever contact. I think it's important that your W is telling you about when and for how long she's talking/seeing her OM. That's encouraging, even if it doesn't make you feel particularly good about it continuing. For your own sake (and to be prepared for "negotiating continued contact" efforts that might come later from your W), I would firmly consider the point of no more contact as the start of her W/D and rebuilding your M. That will give you both a common goal to strive for. <p>persevere,

I just wanted to give you some thoughts that popped into my head while reading your post and the replies you received.<p>One thought is....maybe your wife feels so bad about what she's done that she doesn't think she deserves your kindsness, gestures and love. She may not outwardly reveal these feelings to you, at least not yet, but I think most WSs at some point or another come to realize exactly what they've done and feel awful about it (some later than others). I know there are exceptions, however. She may not have even admitted it to herself yet - it could be a subconscious type of thing.....she doesn't think she deserves you being kind and therefore doesn't readily accept it and doesn't seem to acknowledge it like you'd want her to. <p>Also....be careful that you're not falling into the pursuer/distancer roles. This is very easy to do. Stand still a little.....don't chase her. This goes along somewhat with what I said about her not feeling worthy. If you chase her, she is going to run in the complete other direction. <p>I think the advice about doing things for yourself, things that will make you happy is good advice. I am sure this is extremely difficult. I really liked the suggestion of doing something with your children if possible. I think that would be most effective and will have a "kill two birds with one stone" type of effect - it will make you happier with your family and yourself, it will give you something to concentrate on while you're waiting for your WW to come out of the fog and it may give her something to increase her feelings for you. <p>I may be way off here.....but these are some things that came to mind. Hope it helps.<p>BTW, all that you did for Mother's Day was very thoughtful. It may be the kind of stuff she's dying for.....but just doesn't feel like she can tell you that yet.

NCetc.:<p>"Also....be careful that you're not falling into the pursuer/distancer roles. This is very easy to do. Stand still a little.....don't chase her. This goes along somewhat with what I said about her not feeling worthy. If you chase her, she is going to run in the complete other direction. "<p>This is a very good point. I have struggled, subconciously, with this for 4 months now. It was very hard at first not to pursue and cling like crazy at first. Then, as I started realizing I was okay as an individual, I had a hard time openly caring enough. It's a fine line to tread. Now, as I truly belive our R is improving and our communication is better, I'm feeling close again and it's not so hard to be caring. And, since my self-confidence is at an all-time high, I can be caring without being clingy. I can be firmer about what I require in our M, without being inconsiderate of her needs and feelings.

Well last night WW told me she was going to try go back to work. She is going to ask her boss if she can work in another department (not the OM's) and do all her work at home, part time 20 hours a week like befor. She would still occassionally have to go into the office to pick up things where the OM is (on nights and weekends). She said that she thinks that she can make this work without seeing OM at the office.<p>She asked me how I felt about this. I told her I have not problem with this provided that she did not see or talk to the OM again and committed to this. I said that going back to work would give them more opportunities to see the OM. Other than this, I said that trying to arrange things with her boss to be away from OM was a good idea. She would not have to tell her boss anything about the A. She could say that she enjoyed the type of work the other department did. I am really not to sure what to think about this. Any comments?<p>WW said she was considering not talking or seeing the OM again and cutting off contact with him. I told her the best way to do this was with a letter and not talk to him. I told her there was good and bad ways to break things off with OM and the SAA book has an example. She did not balk at this like she has in the past, but I do not see that she is ready for this just yet.<p>She said that the OM will probably not be too exited about her going back to work. OM is very scared about his W (also WW) coming into work and telling his boss about the whole thing. I have talked to the OMW and I think she would do this. She is a stay at home mom and has 4 children, she would do anything to keep the marriage.<p>WW also said that the OM and OMW had a fight this weekend and the OMW told OM to leave. He said he was not going to leave until the OMW has secured a job. That is never going to happen. You can tell my wife was upset about this because she knows the OMW will never get a job. (I hate that she is upset about this. I know she is considering still running off with this guy.) I sometimes feel that my wife is just playing me along waiting for the OM to leave his W. I sometimes feel that she is telling me what I want to here just so that I will stick around.<p>It is sooooo hard not to talk to her about the OM now. I called WW this morning just to chat and I had a hard time talking with her about anything. All of this stuff is on my mind when I talk to her. She was rude to me on the phone. She said "So whats up" about three or four times. I kept my cool and chit chatted as much as possible for a few minutes.