Hi, <p>My H and I are still working very hard towards recovery. For those who don't know my story, he is the FWS and I am the BS. The hurt and pain I was feeling is almost gone. I still have triggers though and it happened last night. My H and I talked about it and things were going ok, until he became upset.<p>I came to the realization that the A continued after D-day #1, not because we were fighting, but because he couldn't let go. My H was saying that he kept up contact just in case things didn't work out for us. He wanted to hold on to her so that someone would be there for him when things got bad between us. Has anyone else heard this? <p>We had agreed to commit to and work on our M 100%, and yet he made contact 5 days later. (He does agree that in doing so he did not commit 100% and that our M could not work this way.) In past discussions, he always said it was because we were fighting, and that was when he always made contact. But when I looked back, I realized it was only 5 days. We were not fighting at this point. We were actually re-connecting and things were great! In believing it was because we were fighting, I felt it was my fault. I felt I had pushed him towards her and felt that if we were already screwing up, that rebuilding our M was pretty hopeless.<p>Anyways, thats were our conversation ended up. I was relieved that it wasn't because we were fighting and I was trying to make him understand that it was because he couldn't let go of her.<p>At this point he became very aggitated and quite obviously didn't want to talk about it anymore. This really got me worried. I thought that he should be over this reaction by now. That if we were recovering properly, we could discuss these issues and any questions I have about the A. He's always said he would answer anything I wanted to know and support me with getting through this, and he has. We've managed to both be "safe" for these discussions (after trial and error), and I couldn't understand why he was reacting this way. <p>In the past, when one of us got upset we would just stop talking and nothing ever got resolved. We've come along way since then and I didn't want to end this conversation with him feeling so bad. So I talked to him somemore and really listened to him, his anger, etc. It was then that I came to the realization he was feeling bad and guilty about what he did and that he wasn't still trying to make excuses. (I know, I'm pretty slow sometimes, but I've always focused on my thoughts and feelings and by focusing on him, really focusing, I was able to feel what he was feeling.)<p>I also came to the realization that I had forgiven him. I had never expressed that to him.
So I told him I forgave him and that I was sorry I didn't express that sooner. I told him that he now has to forgive himself. He just seemed to melt. <p>He went on about how much stronger I am than him and how he doesn't feel he deserves this forgiveness. He caused so much pain, etc, etc.<p>So that's what brought me to my question. How can I help him forgive himself? He still hurts by what he has done and can't seem to forgive himself. I know it's something the WS has to go through, but is there anything I can do to help?<p>Thanks,
H&S

be there, be strong, and most important-be a safe place.

H&S,<p>Hi. I think the only thing you can do is to be there for him and continue to meet his ENs. He must learn to forgive himself. He will probably feel worse before he feels better. <p>I know my H still feels tremendously guilty. It is kind of weird by the WS actually ends up hurting themselves far more than they hurt the BS -- they have to live the rest of their lives with the guilt. Once they get through the fog and realize what they did to contribute to the state of their marriage (remember 50/50) and then they chose to have an A, it is a lot to take.<p>Continue to communicate with your H. Continue to work hard to be happy. It might help your H to see an IC -- might gain more insight into why he made the choices he did. <p>Glad to see things are going fairly well with you and your H.<p>FHO

There is a book called "Forgiven Forever" by Joe Beam that may help. <p>Joe is a minister that had "fallen away" from his church. He was addicted to strip clubs etc. Well he ended up divorcing his wife - playing around for 3 years and then found God again. Now he is back with his wife and has a ministry for couples to help them with their relationships. He is uses the Marriage Builders prinicples and even has the Harley's ok to do so. He also has written a book "Becoming One" which talks about a healthy relationship as being strong emotionally, physically and spiritually as the couple moves closer together toward God. Anyway, when one of the spouses feels this way - he has them read this book that he wrote to help them because until you can forgive and love yourself you really can't work on the marriage. <p>He also has a website www.familydynamics.net - hope this helps some. K

Thanks nikko,<p>I am "there" for him, and I actually always was, he just didn't see it. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] So now I will ensure he sees it. <p>I'm realizing now that I am strong - stronger than I've felt in a long time. I think that's why I want to help him through this. As for staying "safe" - I'm always working on this and I really do feel I'm there.<p>I've been following your posts and I really thought and hoped your H was going to surprise you at some point. I'm sorry he didn't. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thanks again for the reply. You're one of the many people here that I admire and I value your input.<p>H&S

Hi FormerHopelessOne,<p>I was hoping you would reply and you did! You haven't let me down yet - Thanks!<p>Things are going really well for us and I feel we've accomplished soo much. We've both read Dr. Harley's concepts and info., After the Affair and our now working our way through SAA (it took awhile to get this book.) For Mothers' Day my H gave me 101 Nights of Grrreat Sex. It looks like it will be alot of fun. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] If you don't have this book, I think you should get it.<p>I've never been one for reading self-help books etc., but finding this site and talking to people like you, has made me realize that they really do help. I now think I'm hooked.<p>It's true about the WS hurting themselves. I mentioned to my H last night that my hurt was deep and intense but has minimized over time. I don't think his hurt was ever as deep, but I think it does last longer. <p>We are going to Joint MC, and I have thought that maybe we should also have IC. It's just so expensive and since I gave up my job to be home with the kids, finances are tight. We've just about used up his benefits, but have agreed that we will continue once they are gone. I'm not sure about our counsellor though. I don't know if you saw my post regarding that. If you think you can help me with this, let me know and I'll pass on the info.<p>I hope all is going well with you and thanks again for your help.<p>H&S

God is in Control,<p>Thank you for taking the time to reply to me. And now, another book to add to my wish list. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Sounds like I might want to put this one at the top.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Anyway, when one of the spouses feels this way - he has them read this book that he wrote to help them because until you can forgive and love yourself you really can't work on the marriage.
<hr></blockquote><p>Could you provide some more info. on this. I don't know when my H will forgive himself, but I will be there for him and I will help him. <p>Your comment suggests that anything we do up until he forgives himself is pointless. Yet we have worked on our marriage and we have accomplished so much. ??<p>I'll check out the website you mention - maybe it will help me understand this more.<p>Thanks again,
H&S

dear hurt and sad, im happy i could help. you have gotten some good advice so far. forgiveness is a tough one. i havent given my forgiveness yet to my husband. i am working on it daily. im not sure if he has reached forgiveness in himself yet. you made me think we should have a conversation about this ourselves. my husband harbours alot of guilt and pain from his past due to his fathers alchohol and death. we are working on his issues together. i always try to be a safe harbour for my husband now that i know how much pain and hurt he has carried with him since childhood.<p>in any event listen to the advice and continue with the counseling, hang in there-it does get better.<p>PS-he did explain about the anniversary-i wont go into it hear, but we had a long talk and he knows how hurt i was. he however did do a wonderful job for mothers day. surprised me with a wonderful dinner at ruth's chris steakhouse, we went as a family to see spiderman, and he gave me a beautifull amythest and diamond ring.(on our 1 month anniversary dating he gave me a beautiful ruby and diamond ring.) if you look at our real recovery-its been almost 1 month. he says he is trying to start all over again, took off the ruby and replaced it with the amythest. i cried, then i joked and said-we arent gonna recreate everything the same, are we????? he laughed too.<p>it was wonderful.

Once I was TRULY sad over what I did, I STOPPED and TOLD THE DOGGONE TRUTH! He doesnt tell the truth cuz he doesnt want you to know how his HEAT left you. he LIKED what he did. HE has to start HATING the act as well as the person he did it with

nikko,<p>I'm very happy for you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It sounds like your H came through afterall. I had a feeling he would. I read someone elses post who received a ring as well. I think I have to talk to my H. I can't be too hard on him though - he also came through on Mothers Day. A nice breakfast in bed, a quiet relaxing day (he completely took over with the kids) and a great BBQ dinner. After everything we've been through, these special days seem to have so much more meaning, eh!<p>H&S

H & S - <p>Just to comment on your question. I didn't mean to imply that all the work you both have done so far - and it does look like you've both done alot of work - is worthless. I just seem to be reading and hearing that before we can truly love others, we have to first love ourselves(You know Love your Neighbor as Yourself). <p>It just struck me that maybe this is why your H is having a little trouble making a full recovery. Maybe he is having a hard time really forgiving himself and thus having a hard time loving himself and subsequently you because the can't get over what he's done.<p>The book, Forgiven Forever was written to help others get over this same hump and I believe it specifically addresses forgiving ourselves. I think the book espouses the basic principle that if God, who created us and who loves us no matter what we've done, can forgive us, then we should be able to forgive ourselves. <p>It sounds great, but it's a hard thing for us to really grasp and believe. <p>You really do sound like you're doing everything right and probably time will be your greatest asset, as you continue to help your H feel safe and secure and loved. I wish I had just read the book - I'm trying to get it back from ExH, who I know hasn't read it - so I could tell you more specifically about it.<p>I hope you continue to move away from being hurt and sad. K

i think your mothers day sounded wonderfull too. glad to hear you had a good day. enjoy them-i know what you mean about them meaning so much more. i feel the same way.<p>i think im gonna get some of the books that have been recommended to you for us also. i need to make sure my husband is dealing with all this. forgiving himself and the pain and guilt.<p>i think you are doing a great job- hang in there and give yourselves time.