Me 40, W 37, S 9, D 13, M 18+ yrs, together over 22 yrs. WS informed me on 1/12/02 she loved me, I was her best friend but wasn't in love with me anymore. Found out later that day there was an OM. She moved out 2/2 and filed for DV at the end of March and DV could be final at end of July. She's also planning on building a house with the OM soon.<p>Something I've noticed and it can no longer be considered just a coincidence is the nicer I am to WW, the more distant she is to me and the meaner she is in return. It seems like when I don't have anything to do with her is when she begins acting nice and initiating contact. Last week she called in tears because her vehicle was going to cost over $1,800 to repair. She asked if I would make the other car pmnt. and she could pay me back next month. Instead I gave her $550 and told her she doesn't have to repay me...as I felt it was the right thing to do since we're not DV'd yet. I also put over $400 into my car last week. That as well as other actions always seem to backfire on me and she becomes more distant.<p>My theory is that the nicer I am, the guiltier she feels and that bothers her. My mother's theory is that she's just trying to control me and she knows that if she's not nice and remains distant, I'll keep trying to make her happy. When I'm not eager to help help or make her happy, that worries her so she becomes nice. If that is the case, then maybe I should be in Plan B instead of A. Any ideas?

djw:<p>If not plan B, then certainly don't pay to fix her car anymore. That's OM's responsibility (or hers). Whether you can move to plan B or not is entirely dependent on you. If you go there, you need to be prepared for DV if it comes to that.<p>Try something like "Hi honey. Glad you called. How are you? Hm... Car broken down? Gee, I'm sure OM would be happy to take care of that for you. Missed the payment last month? Well, it is your car, and you're living with OM and planning a life with him. I'll be here to chat or to help you get over OM, but the car's your responsibility." <p>Guess I'm trying to say, be caring, but make a firm stand on what you will tolerate and what you won't/don't have to tolerate. <p>Good luck,

My H was like this last year when he was in an intense EA/PA with a single coworker. It seemed that whenever I'd try plan A he'd be even colder to me. Everything that he was unhappy with was all MY fault! I found that following the guidelines of Plan B as laid out in the book Love Must be Tough by James Dobson was the answer. Have you read that? Guilt is at the bottom of their behavior. They need to villify the BS to continue their A without breaking down and admitting their own faults.H went to counseling once as a 'favor' to me but there he re-wrote our entire 15 yrs of history together saying our marriage was 'hopeless' and he definitely was leaving me to be with OW. My H didnt break down and stop his A until after he filed for D on me at the urging of OW. That seemed to bring him out of his 'mean phase' finally and from then on I was able to do a gradual diluted Plan A during the time he was in emotional withdrawal from OW. We actually went 8 mo without SF. Can you believ it? Now its better than ever! Go figure! lifeismessy

When my H began his affair and when he first left the house he was super mean to me the nicer I was to him. I knew something was wrong, but didnt' know what, right away. So I rushed out and loaded up on marriage help books. One night he came home and I had made his favorite dinner, set the table with the good china, candles etc. He was silently fuming. He got up from the table and said "Please stop being nice to me." Afew days later he told me he wanted a divorce (denied and affair up and down). He disappeared for 3 days (with OW). When he showed up again he decided that we could live as roommates until things were "settled". I threw myself into Plan A. he came home some nights (slept in guest room) and not others for the next 2 weeks. Said he was staying at a male friend's house. The night he moved out he screamed at me "I can't take the guilt. Why are you still being nice? I just wish you would hate me, it would be easier." It was definitely guilt related. But I kept Plan A'ing until almost the end of the A. Then I did a very brief Plan B and he came home for good. I wouldn't be giving your W any more cash though or paying for anything.

As far as the cash, we have two vehicles and they are in both our names together. I recently asked her to trade vehicles with me and although we agreed we'd each be responsible for any repairs only on the vechicle we had, I didn't feel it was fair to stick her all the expense...since the vehicle did had those things wrong with them while I had it too. On the other hand, I know she wouldn't have helped me pay for anything though. Thanks for the advice.

djw:<p>You are being kind, and that's understandable. Trouble is you're also being taken unfair advantage of. Since the car is in your name too, it's not a simple thing to undo. Take care.

djw - It is definitely the guilt thing.<p>I have to respectfully disagree with 2long.<p>Once again, we need to confront the difficult question: Do you want to be right or do you want to be married?<p>If you want to be right, by all means, repeat this to your wife: "Hi honey. Glad you called. How are you? Hm... Car broken down? Gee, I'm sure OM would be happy to take care of that for you. Missed the payment last month? Well, it is your car, and you're living with OM and planning a life with him. I'll be here to chat or to help you get over OM, but the car's your responsibility."<p>If you want to be married, don't say that or take any action that rubs her nose in it. <p>OF COURSE your being taken advantage of!!<p>I suggest a session with Steve H. to talk specifically about going to Plan B.<p>WAT

WAT:<p>I sit corrected. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

DJW ... I am curious. What have you learned about yourself throughout this ordeal?<p>Have you learned something about your own strengths? Your weaknesses? What are you gaining by this process?<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

WAT:<p>Didn't have time to coreograph a response earlier, and don't mean to hijack this thread, but:<p>"Once again, we need to confront the difficult question: Do you want to be right or do you want to be married?"<p>Yes, this is a difficult question. And if you were to ask ME that question, my answer would depend on my Plan A status at the time (and probably djw's as well). Right now, my answer would be, 1) I'd rather be right AND married, then 2) I'd rather be right, if I have to choose. Honesty is that important to me. So, if I have to "patch up" our M (which is all I feel like "we're" doing at this point) and fear another A down the line because my W doesn't believe she has to be completely honest with me, then I'd rather not be M'd to her.<p>"I suggest a session with Steve H. to talk specifically about going to Plan B."<p>Which is putting being "right" before being "married" isn't it? Because we have to be ready for DV if we go to plan B. And telling his W to pay for car repairs would have to be part of plan B.<p>Sorry I'm down this am.

2long - I'll bet djw will allow us to rent out this space for a bit since what we're disussing applies equally to him.<p>The "right or fight" question is not intended to be permanent. Assuming a successful recovery takes place in a marriage insulted by infidelity, the couple will eventually be both right and married. When we pompous oldtimers come along and ask the "right or married" question, we're referring to the current or near term actions by the BS. Remember the first premise of Plan A: there is nothing you can do to alter the affair, except to make it worse. Underlying this "truth" is the fact that there is nothing you can do to educate or convince your spouse of, other than your meanness, your disrespect, your lack of understanding, and your problems - even if these don't exist in any significant amount. Simply put, you are dealing with an alien abductee who's had their brains scrambled. Have you ever tried arguing with a drunk? Same thing.<p>2long: "So, if I have to "patch up" our M (which is all I feel like "we're" doing at this point) and fear another A down the line because my W doesn't believe she has to be completely honest with me, then I'd rather not be M'd to her."<p>I don't blame you. This assumes, of course, that you don't achieve more than just "patching up" in the long run.<p>2long (regarding Plan B): "Which is putting being "right" before being "married" isn't it? Because we have to be ready for DV if we go to plan B. And telling his W to pay for car repairs would have to be part of plan B."<p>Well, I don't think this is the same logic path for me - Plan B and "right." The way I see it, Plan B is what you do when you can't or shouldn't do Plan A anymore. You don't "do" Plan A and B to your WS. But I think I see your point. I think what you're saying is that if djw was in Plan B, he should say what you suggested when she came to him with car problems. Figuratively, I agree. In actuality, he should not respond at all, thereby inferring, very indirectly, that she should seek assistance elsewhere to really experience life without him.<p>Perhaps this specific exchange relates to whether we should rub our spouses nose in it, or allow them to slowly rub their own noses in it by reaping what they sow.<p>BTW, IMHO it's absolutely necessary for us all to challenge the advice we get from others to avoid becoming a bunch of lemmings.<p>WAT

WAT:<p>Very well said. Okay, I can accept the "right or fight" concept, provided it's a short-term solution to the problem. <p>I may feel differently down the line, but at the moment, I can't see beyond the current "patching up" of our M in the long run. But maybe this just means that I'm giving my W too much credit by considering her more "unfogged" than she really is at this point. I think I've gotten there because of the infrequency of contact with OM, and her insistence that she ended even the EA back in November. In reality, she didn't, and maybe even hasn't yet. In any case, even the professional correspondence isn't completely necessary, and impossible for me to monitor, so I think it'll require extraordinary precautions on my W's part to convince me that another A with OM is no longer a threat to our M. <p>The right thing for ME to do then, is continue plan A, try to be patient and wait for my W to decide to do the "right things" herself, and then get down and dirty with fixing our M. <p>Djw's situation is more serious than mine (my W never "left" to be with OM), but these choices are pretty similar, in any case.<p>Good luck, djw. And thank you, WAT.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pepperband:
[QB]DJW ... I am curious. What have you learned about yourself throughout this ordeal?<p>Have you learned something about your own strengths? Your weaknesses? What are you gaining by this process?<p>
Pepperband, to answer your questions: I've learned that I love my W more than I ever would have imagined. While I never thought something like this could happen, I knew if it did, there would be no doubt I wouldn't have any interest in trying to save the M. I can't believe I can still love and care for her so much after all that's taken place and I think this has shown me what the definition of unconditional love is.<p>I've also learned not to take your spouse for granted and not to get stuck in a rut when your life is so great and so comfortable. You really need to let your spouse know how much they mean to you and the two of you always have to make, and take, the time to focus on each other and not let the everyday hubbub of life get in the way of that. I always thought my actions spoke louder than words and I knew how much I loved her and knew my actions showed her this as well. However, I realize I also should have shown it more through words as well.<p>I've also learned that I'm a very independent person and I don't want my W back because I'm afraid to be alone or because I don't think I can take care of the kids, the house or any financial situations by myself. I realize I can cope just fine without my W when it comes to those issues...or really any other. With me it all comes down to how much I love and care for her and how she's my best friend in the entire world and has been for over 22 years and I really miss seeing her happy, sad, excited, frustrated. I miss seeing her when I go to sleep at night and I miss waking up to her in the mornings. I miss the talks we used to have, the laughter we shared and I miss how much we loved doing the same types of things and I really miss the family moments we shared with our kids.<p>I've also learned how great people can be. I went on a Carribean Cruise (my W wouldn't come with) and I met so many people who went out of their way to include me in what they were doing and to just sit and talk about my situation and everything else in general. I've talked with people through this site and others who've been so helpful and who've also gone out of their way to be there for me. I've also learned how much friends and family care and will do anything for you too. In short, I never would have imagined people could be so kind and helpful. <p>About my weaknesses: I've learned that I needed to become more extroverted and I've done a number of things to move myself in that direction. I think when I was with my W, I always felt she was all I needed and I didn't care to socialize as much with others as I should have. This has awakened me to the realization that I need to be more social and to be more spontaneous in life. <p>I've also learned that although I've always been really easy going, maybe too much so, that I can't nag about little things. I'd always tell my W she drove too fast, etc... and she'd get upset and say, "be quiet, you're not my father". I need to let the little things go.<p>To summarize, I know I was a great husband and a great father and still know I'm a great father. I know the A isn't due to any faults of mine and that my W should have come to me and indicated there were problems instead of telling my how happy she was with me and how much she loved me...if she truly was unhappy. However, even though I always lived my life to do what was best for my W and the kids and always made their happiness my #1 priority in life, I know there were things I could have done to make our M much better. It's funny how you don't always see that until something like this happens and I hope & pray I get the opportunity to make our M work at some point in the future and show my W how much happier our M can be. Even if I don't get that opportunity, I've learned things and made changes that WILL make be a stronger, better, happier person in the future...whether I'm alone or with someone else.<p>Thanks for the question. You made me examine things I really hadn't even thought that much about.<p>[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: djw ]</p>

WOW [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Very nice work!<p>Impressed Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]