OK....some here may remember me from months ago. I have been posting/lurking on this board for 10 months. I have read thousands of posts and understand the concepts. Here's my question. <p>After a 7 month Plan "A"...wife was fence sitting and wanted to seperate. I surprised her on Valentines Day with divorce papers...kicked her out and took custody of my kids. She is still sitting the fence...but recently told the OM that she wanted to come home and work on her marriage...which was GREAT for me. But she is trying to "wean" herself off of talking to him on the phone. He now lives 15 hours away and for the last 9 months has lived far away and the "A" continues by phone....she is addicted to talking to him. <p>IF she wants to commit to working on the marriage...How do we begin to recover ? I don't live with her. I know that seems like an odd quesiton. How do we start ? Do i let her break it off on her own terms ? Do i insist that she quit cold turkey ? What if she calls him ? What if he calls her ? What guidelines should be in place for these events ? How do you know when she is ready to come home ? Should i make her give up her cell phone ? How much should be driven BY ME or do i sit back and let her do it HER WAY..knowing that it may not work ? <p>This may all sound silly...but it's what we all want...a chance to re-build...i think my chance might be coming into the port....Just not sure how the best way to GRAB that chance is. She hasn't done the research and reading and learning about this stuff that i have. But i don't want to come off as controlling or demanding...but i don't want to get used hurt again and have a bunch of "false" recoveries because she doesn't know HOW to do it right. <p>Any advise....how to catch a fence sitter and set guidelines for recovery ? How long would you want your WS to have no-contact before they came home ?
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IMHO - boundaries need to be in place and agreed to BEFORE she moves back in. Requesting "No contact" is NOT a demand because you are giving her the freedom to choose - move home with "no contact" OR stay separated until you are ready for "no contact". It is said in love/calmly/sincerely. You can let her know you will be there for her during withdrawal and she can talk to you openly about the pain she is experiencing through "no contact". But there is NO such thing as weening - that just allows the A to continue - that is fence sitting. I think if she agrees to "no contact" and Radical Honesty and POJA then she can come home today. You don't make her do anything - you always give choices. But these three things are a requirement to recovery. Does she have to do it? No, she can choose to stay separated. Tell her you want her code to check her cell phone voice mail to help rebuild trust. It is not to catch her doing something wrong/spying - it is to catch her doing something right.

Hi, I remember you. Since you're here and you're familiar with the MB concepts, please take advantage of Harley counseling. They have experience from talking to many many couples and I would want their expertise if I were in your shoes.<p>Now from strictly amateur pov: If your wife wants to "wean" herself from the OM and continue phone contact, she is fooling herself. Don't let her fool you too. If she needs the contact, let her get that while she lives outside the home. The two of you can get marriage counseling either on the phone with the Harleys or in person with a marriage counselor who follows the Harley principles or who believes in saving marriages, not facilitating divorces so that everyone ends up "feeling good."<p>If she's out of the house, she loses the goodies of being married and with her family. If she returns to the house, she has no incentive to give up her lover. She will play both of you.<p>If I were a Harley I wouldn't advise that she move back in until she was really ready to commit to your marriage. Committing means going cold turkey, and withdrawing on her own, while she and you go to counseling and do whatever homework they give you, while living separately. Taking a short cut now could undermine rebuilding. <p>I'm not saying this to be punitive. The point is not that she should pay, hurt and suffer before she gets back into the home. The point is that it's not right that her family should pay, hurt and suffer so that she can continue to indulge in her love affair and shortchange your marriage.<p>Somewhere in the Bible it says that a man must leave his parents and "cleave unto his wife, foresaking all others." The wife must cleave unto her husband also, foresaking all others. When that works, it's part of God's design.<p>The Bible didn't say "... and wean yourself off of your lover slowly by keeping in contact with him/her while working on your marriage."

Hey, can I ever give you a voice of experience.<p>Weaning away does NOT WORK. My H and I "worked" on our marriage MANY TIMES, and each time was a failure because of contact with the OM or my stubborness to let him go. The final time was it. H and I decided to work on the marriage for REAL this time...I called the OM and told him I would not be speaking with him again, that I was going home and would not be leaving, EVER...and I moved back home in just over a weeks time. How can you work on a MARRIAGE if you don't act like you're married?<p>Marriage = Commitment.....if there is a TRUE commitment then seperation isn't necessary. Once I was really ready to commit to doing ANYTHING it took to make our marriage work...I no longer needed space or privacy or anything else.<p>Set very strong boundries...if she's really ready to work on the marriage she's got to let go of this other foolishness.<p>Good luck!!

Thanks for the replies Bell & LNPme...i appreciate them. I understand EXACTLY what you are telling me...but where i am at is this. She has finally come down from "I don't know if i want to be married, I don't know if i want divorced"...to seeming to reach out and wanting to spend time with me and enjoying being around me. A month ago she was ready to do this and then she HAD to go and see him to tell him that she wanted to work on our marriage and told her whole family about it...she was so excited. Problem is she spent the weekend with him..slept with him and came back ALL fogged up again. Like i couldn't have told her that would happen !!!<p>So she is getting to this point again...i want to help her solve this..to be there for her. But she wants to have him totally out of her system before she comes back home....but i know that won't happen because she will give in and call him or he will call her. How can i tell her that without it being on LB for her ? She & I have been going to a MC...individually..and we will go jointly when we are ready for that. <p>By saying "You can come home when you agree to no-contact"...isn't that a demand ? I want her to choose to end the affair. Hopefully this week we can discuss HOW we are going to do this. I want it to be a "WE" discussion...not a "you" one. <p>I would love to say "you can't come back until you can prove a month of no-contact"...but not sure that is realistic. I guess that's my basic question....Do i let her come back if she agrees to no-contact or does she have to prove that first. I think it would be easier for her if i were around...but again...she hasn't really made ANYTHING easy for me !! That's where i am kinda stuck as to how to start the whole thing IF she is ready....and how do you ever know if it's a "REAL" recovery attempt or just more BS fog talk ? <p>Fastly approaching a year....i thought those people who said be prepared for the long haul was crazy when i was a newbie..... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

I don't think that's a demand at all, I think it's a CRUCIAL BOUNDRY!<p>Explain to her that she is important to you and that you want more than anything to have a fabulous working marriage with her, but that you KNOW that cannot happen with the way things are or have been. It's just a condition for recovery....he's gone, or I'm not available to you. She's still having her cake and eating it too...it's got to end or you will never have all of her.

THANKS for the reply, hope4future..man would i love to talk to you for a bit !! <p>That's what i don't want to happen. To "TRY" to work on it a few times..I want to know that this time is for "REAL". <p>You said
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> B]"The final time was it. H and I decided to work on the marriage for REAL this time...I called the OM and told him I would not be speaking with him again, that I was going home and would not be leaving, EVER...and I moved back home in just over a weeks time."[/B]<hr></blockquote>[<p>How did you know it was real this time..and more importantly..HOW did your husband ??? You could only believe what you were telling him and seeing ?

What boundries are you talking about...please give me some pointers...If you would like to talk to me...please let me know..i would LOVE THAT. I think she is close to ready....<p>Thanks for your help !!

Telling your W the truth in love is not a LB - a LB is either "no contact" or we are #^%#^#%^*&^@@@ threw!<p>I don't think she needs to prove no contact. (Tell her you believe in her). She just needs to write a "no contact" letter that you approve and you mail (POJA the "no contact" letter). It is a "we" NOT "you" discussion. You are going to be there to help her through withdrawal. You are recognizing this will be hard for her. She can come to you and cry about missing him [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] (where is the barfing Graemlin when you need one!)<p>A boundary is saying "no contact" before moving home. If she is not ready she has the freedom to choose not coming home - do you see the difference in a demand with LB and a boundary (set with love).

Sad Daddy,<p>Just a question, do you think your marriage has a chance with her still in contact with OM? It didn't before, what has changed? In reality nothing has changed.<p>You said <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Thanks for the replies Bell & LNPme...i appreciate them. I understand EXACTLY what you are telling me...but where i am at is this. She has finally come down from "I don't know if i want to be married, I don't know if i want
divorced"...to seeming to reach out and wanting to spend time with me and enjoying being around me.<hr></blockquote> <p>Excellent, spend time with her. But remember this wanting to spend time with you is not the same as wanting to be married to you or not loving the OM. You will need both of those conditions to happen before she comes back.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> A month ago she was ready to do this and then she HAD to go and see him to tell him that she wanted to work on our marriage and told her whole family about it...she was so excited. Problem is she spent the weekend with him..slept with him and came back ALL fogged up again. Like i couldn't have told her that would happen !!!<hr></blockquote><p>Hello, Sad Daddy, I realize you WANT her to come back so bad, but you have just given the exact reason that NO CONTACT must be in place BEFORE she is back home. This is tough stuff SD and you are going to make sure that your marriage has the best chance. You KNOW what that means and you have just posted why your idea doesn't really work. Contact with OM will destroy your chances.<p>I have followed your posts since you came her. You are far enough along that you filed for divorce and moved her out. By my reconning, you have about one more chance left in you before the marriage is dead. Are you going to risk that one chance one your W while she is still contacting OM? I think it would be foolish. Maximize the chances of rebuilding the marriage by making sure she is serious and that means OM is out of the picture. You only have one chance left, make sure you make it your best shot.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>So she is getting to this point again...i want to help her solve this..to be there for her. But she wants to have him totally out of her system before she comes back home....but i know that won't happen because she will give in and call him or he will call her. How can i tell her that without it being on LB for her ? She & I have been going to a MC...individually..and we will go jointly when we are ready for that. <hr></blockquote><p>Come on Sad Daddy. You know your cannot "help her solve this" if you could have your marriage wouldn't be in this situation. Even your W knows that OM must be out of her life before she comes back. Further, the fact that you think she will fold and contact him again, is all the more reason NOT to squander your last chance are rebuilding your marriage right now. She has to prove to herself and you that she can decouple from OM. If she cannot, then there is no hope for your marrigae.<p>Be available to talk with her, go out with her,but don't let her come home until home is the ONLY place she wants to be.<p>Good luck and God Bless,<p>JL<p>[ May 14, 2002: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</p>

Dear Just Learning, <p>I agree with almost everything you have said. I know these things. I won't let her come home until i am convinced that she has given him up and is serious about fixing our marriage. It wasn't MY idea of her going to see him..I knew how it would end...but i certainly couldn't stop her from doing it...she would have always wanted to if she didn't. <p>I know she has to do this herself..and want to do it. My general question was "How do i make sure she is serious..and not wasting my time and getting hurt" ? How can i tell her lovingly that her plan won't work....that the ONLY way to end it is abruptly....and forever...when she is ready...a "weaning off time" won't work !! I know this...but trying to get HER to see it is the question !!

"How did you know it was real this time..and more importantly..HOW did your husband ???"<p>I had been on my own for a year. I learned a great deal in that time by reading, counseling and posting on a message board a little different than this one. More than just reading...I asked questions. I wanted to know what WAS realistic to expect from a marriage. During this time the OM and I were primarily only in contact via phone. The minute I moved out he expected me to file for divorce...I had no desire to do that. I wanted space and time, neither of which he was interested in giving me. My husband, on the other hand, finally started to get his act together. Although he still allowed me to caretake him he did start pulling away and started doing things for himself. That gave me more respect for him. He also gained more respect for me since I was able to pay my bills and take care of my son and I myself. He had insisted I would never make it on my own. WHAT A JOKE!!! He didn't really know me all that well. The last 3 months of our seperation I had actually filed...at my OM's pushing, my tiring of the situation going NOWHERE, and even H asking me when I was going to. I didn't move forward with it very speedily...drug my feet for any decisions that had to be made. I had pulled away from the OM a great deal at this point and reality had become EXCRUCIATINGLY clear to me. The fact was, even if my marriage did end, I wasn't all that interested in moving forward with the OM. I had been looking around at other possible prospects...and had come to realize some things. No matter WHO I might end up with...there was going to be work. Marriage is WORK. Why then could my H and I not make it work? I was still a tad bit resentful and summed it up to his simply NOT TRYING. He left all decisions and work to be done up to me...it was his fault. Then my own personal D-day. He had told me he was going to a Thanksgiving dinner. I figured with his family maybe...but he didn't take our son. I started realizing that he had been acting more and more distant and that something was up. Well...his brother had fixed him up with someone and he had been dating for several months. He was spending Thanksgiving with her and her family. I broke down then. I was so hurt and upset. How could he give up on ME?? Up to that point that was my job. I had actually been fathoming us maybe dating once our divorce was final (yes, I know...pretty dumb) but this just blew me right off the fence....kind of catapulted my head right out of my butt at the same time. I realized what I'd put us through, and how little I'd tried to work WITH my H...and how little HE was responsible for my unhappiness. The only thing our marriage had lacked was committment on my part to make it all it could be. Our marriage wasn't even all that problematic....it had just gotten in a rut (and was suffering a bit of post tramatic stress).<p>So I guess I "knew" it would work if given the chance again because I believed what my dad always told me....I'm capable of doing anything if I set my mind to it. I had HAD my mind set that my marriage would not work, so go figure, it didn't. I came to realize the difference between love and in love, and I came to see that all people are just people....a new person or situation might be a bit more fun at the start, but in the end you will just trade new problems for old.<p>Why did my H believe that this time might be different? Because this time I was practically begging HIM for another chance. Because I was agreeing WHOLEHEARTEDLY to having been stubborn and selfish and uncooperative. Because THIS TIME I told him I'd do anything he needed me to do to prove myself worthy of being married to him.<p>It was a leap of faith for both of us. In the past I withheld all physical touching when I would pull away from him. That is his top "love language". His request at "proof" was to ask if he asked to make love to me if I would....and I said yes. It was scary as heck to me...but it showed commitment...that I meant what I said. He asked me to come over then...and I balked at first...then I did. We weren't apart again after that.<p>"You could only believe what you were telling him and seeing ?"<p>I assume you mean how did trust me? Well, for one thing, if I wanted this other man why would I move back in with him after a year of being on my own? Why had I drug my feet for a year over divorcing? He knew how I acted when I was lying and still in contact with the other man. I gave him all my passwords, blocked the OM from my email, and was willing to be accountable for all my time away from home. I mean, he didn't put a beeper on me or anything, and he knew I COULD contact the OM...but it would have been obvious in my actions. I used to go out with my girlfriends all the time and the one place we had to get together at was the local bar. He didn't approve of it. He had asked me not to go, and I pretty much told him he couldn't tell me what to do. Well...this time I told him I wouldn't go anymore and offered other solutions for hanging out with my girls now and then (had a couple of luncheons and a few out of town shopping trips...no bars!!) I have been completely willing to compromise if he needs me to.<p>"What boundries are you talking about...please give me some pointers"<p>If you want this to work she has to see that it's an all or none deal. She won't ever get that through her head if she's still making the rules. That doesn't mean that your being controlling by asking that things change!! If she's really ready...not just kinda ready...she'll compromise so that you can both feel comfortable and loved in the marriage. Right now it sounds to me like she doesn't like being alone. H and I tried weaning ourselves away and all it did was drag everything out a good 6 months longer than it would have been.<p>She may well be close to ready, but it's obvious that she has NO IDEA what recovery constitutes, nor what damage this OM has done to your lives....or she wouldn't be trying to remain in contact with him. Has she had any counseling? What books has she read?<p>The personal boundries you set are for YOU not to control her. She'll do what she's going to do...just don't allow her to manipulate YOU in the situation any further. YOU KNOW recovery can't begin with another person in the wings...so that's a boundry you set for YOURSELF. If there is another, or any evidence of another...you remain NOT AN OPTION for her. If she's unwilling to make compromises or prove herself trustworthy then you know to remain out of the picture.<p>You get what I mean about boundries?

Thanks again for the reply HOPE...i appreciate it. <p>I do have a couple more quesiton for ya...<p>What did you mean by.."H and I tried weaning ourselves away and all it did was drag everything out a good 6 months longer than it would have been." ?? <p>I want to hear WHAT she wants now and HOW she thinks she wants to get it. Then i will know where she's at. <p>I have NO DESIRE to even consider her coming home until he's out and she is committed to that. I want her to be excited about coming home..but not sure that will happen at the same time she is withdrawaling from him.<p>Thanks again for posting replies..

I didn't have withdrawls from the OM when I came back home. I made up my mind and I guess I knew it would all be ok.<p>As far and H and I dragging things out. Well, I continued to clean his house, stop by and cook from time to time, I still cut his hair...we still did family things on the weekend and hung out with couple friends. For all appearance we were still married. Even went to the movies. I didn't do his laundry...had to draw the line somewhere, lol! He helped me when I needed things done too.<p>Why did that drag things out? Because we were still filling each others emotional needs. When I realized he was only pulling away from me because he had found someone else...I was devistated. I helped him get over me!!!! Or atleast that's how I felt. But...in reality he hadn't gotten over us at all. He still loved me very much and wanted more than anything to remain a family. So did I!!! He said he hadn't been able to get close to this other girl at all.<p>You'll know when she shows real comittment to working things out. As far as excitement....I was far from excited to move back...I was SCARED SH!TLESS!!! But...I was willing and comitted.