At the request of our MC. She thought there is no need to not tell WS what I know. I told the MC I can no longer handle being lied to constantly. Ws has made no efforts towards M. Fog is deep and thick.<p>Ws, IM writing to let you know that right wrong or indifferent I have been snooping. I know for a fact that there is still contact with OM. How I know this doesn’t matter. What does matter is that I cannot stand to let you do this to me any longer. To treat you as if everything is OK when I know what you are doing to me is unbearable. Every day you would lie to me I began to dislike you more and more. Like I said to you before “you are beautiful to look at but ugly to think about”. As the counselor said “you cannot work on a marriage when there is someone else in the picture”. The MC is not willing to even see us while this is going on. To me that makes perfect sense. You can’t expect a crackhead to stop using crack while living in a crack house. I was able to forgive you and take you back once. Since then you have been trying to get away from me and to hide your secret second life. With the information I know now its very troubling to see the extent in which you are willing to lie. At this point I see no way for reconciliation unless the rule of radical honesty is followed. Sometimes I don’t think I know who you are. I am not going to sit around while you continue to build your relationship with OM. How someone can love me in January (enough to make a 320k$ purchase) and hate me by March is unreal. I accept my responsibility in the state of this marriage. I am willing to make the necessary changes to make you happy. No marriage is perfect and all marriages require work. You stated in your first letter to MB “Our marriage seemed perfect for the most part”. I thought so too! If I knew there was a problem I would do what I can to make it better. I don’t think you new anything was wrong either. You say in your first letter to MB “I had not had that attraction to someone in so long, nor did I ever think it was possible. To me the reason you did this to me is quite simple. The OM made you feel the way you haven felt in a long time. Whether that’s physical / emotional or both. The problem started when you let him in. I believe I read somewhere when this happens “run for the hills” Then you say “Something must be wrong if I did this”. Then you ask “why is it that I feel like IM always looking for something better”. I think the MC hit the nail on the head. These are questions that need to be answered in IC. Why cant you close the door or run for the hills when this happens. I truly believe your difficult family life could have a piece in this. Just as I believe my family life has a part in my shortcomings in our marriage. As in my family I focus on material things. Trying to give you the best of everything. A good lifestyle. Build a bigger and better house, fix things. To me that’s what a good husband did bc that’s what my dad did. And just like my father I have a problem showing emotion, That doesn’t mean that I don’t feel them. I hate the fact the fact that I have a problem showing emotion. I hated that my father could never show me any emotion. I thought that’s what a strong man does (like my father) so that what I have done. I have done that for so long that I feel weird we I do show emotion. This is something I need to work on myself. I hope you listen to the MC and talk to someone about your issues. With all that being said, I feel I have come to a fork in the road. I know you’re addicted to OM. I can’t change that. I would love to be there for you to help you through withdraw. You have not allowed that to happen. I can no longer believe anything you say. You have amazed me at your ability to lie. Unless you think you can make a real effort to stop seeing OM I think its time we talk about separate living arrangements and a financial split.

funked,<p>I understand your frustration... remember that I'm living a similar nightmare...<p>One thing, however... this letter is a great rant to get a lot of stuff off your chest... but I don't think I'd give it to your WW - but that's just me talking. A true Plan B letter is intended to convey some simple messages, and is in fact, a love letter.<p>I know, I know - you don't feel much love right now. But the intent - if you really want to get down to the nitty gritty - is to set the stage for reconciliation - because it's not just possible, but PROBABLE if Plan A and Plan B are executed PROPERLY! And to execute Plan B properly, you want to go into it on the proper note. That doesn't mean being a doormat - no. Don't forget that the act of going into Plan B itself is a very strong statement. If you want your WW to think of you fondly while in Plan B, the best way to do that is by being tough - but loving, too.<p>Just my 2 cents.

I agree with J.R.<p>It should go something like:<p>I love you and I want our marriage to work but in order to perserve my love for you I am no longer willing to work on this marriage until there is no contact with OM. If you are not willing to do that now then it is time we separate. <p>I hear you funkedup. We all reach our breaking point and know when it is time for Plan B. Everything in your letter - she probably already knows. It is not your job to explain to her how you know (snooping) the point is - you know. After you have been separated a couple months and acting as if you are divorced THEN file but not until you both have a clear picture of what it will be like divorced. IMHO the ws usually comes out of the fog when in Plan B although there are no guarantees. <p>Do you have a church family and go to a Bible believing church for more support?

Thanks for your input. I am going to read this to WS at MC tonight. I am going to tweak it a bit. I have not been in plan a long. I find I cant do it when I get treated like such crap. WS doesent just lie she is down right mean to me. Thats just me. I dont have the strengh to stick around while being cheated on.

FunkedUp,<p>Your position is valid, but please rethink how you want to state it. You have nothing to lose by leaving the door cracked, but maybe everything to lose if you slam it in her face. There is nothing to be gained by all the LBs, nothing. Even if you are heading for D, it will only make it worse and more painful for everyone, especially your children, if you have them.<p>Keep it simple. I told my H just the other night AGAIN: I just can't be in a R where I do not feel safe and protected. That is a valid place to be, and it doesn't need any defense or offense--it just is.<p>Do you want a M with her if she follows the extraordinary precautions and eliminates the secret second life? If so, then that's all you need to say: I want a M where we can both feel cared for and protected, and I am willing to do the work necessary to accomplish that. If and when you are willing to follow the extraordinary precautions to end the A the right way and eliminate the secret second life in preparation for marital recovery, then I will be happy to discuss our future together. Until then I need to protect my love for you by separating and having no contact with you.

Ws agreed to separate. Now we have to deal with the ugly part of who goes where and who gets what. Ws also admitted to 3 other Ea's 2 when we were married. Ws said she had the discipline to stop those. Her latest A she said "there is just something about him that I didn’t say no. He made me realize that I was never really happy in my Marriage" Will someone please sound the foghorn! I have made an appointment with a lawyer on Monday to see what I have to do and what my rights are. Ws is insisting that I leave BC it’s easier. IM not sure I want to do that. She cheats and I have to move to a friend’s house for $350.00 a month for a bedroom half of what I have now. That doesn’t sound fair to me. Does anyone have any advice as for what I should ask the lawyer on Monday?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by funkedup:
<strong>Ws agreed to separate. Now we have to deal with the ugly part of who goes where and who gets what. Ws also admitted to 3 other Ea's 2 when we were married. Ws said she had the discipline to stop those. Her latest A she said "there is just something about him that I didn&#8217;t say no. He made me realize that I was never really happy in my Marriage" Will someone please sound the foghorn! I have made an appointment with a lawyer on Monday to see what I have to do and what my rights are. Ws is insisting that I leave BC it&#8217;s easier. IM not sure I want to do that. She cheats and I have to move to a friend&#8217;s house for $350.00 a month for a bedroom half of what I have now. That doesn&#8217;t sound fair to me. Does anyone have any advice as for what I should ask the lawyer on Monday?</strong><hr></blockquote><p> [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] TWO EA's DURING THE MARRIAGE? AND NOW A PA? She definetely has some issues that need to be resolved before she can have any healthy relationship with you or any other man. A separation in which she is by herself may be what is needed in order for her to sort out what exactly is happening inside her. She needs IC more than MC to start finding out what is compelling her towards these A's in the first place. And it might not be such a bad idea for you to get some IC to find out why you are in such a relationship to begin with.<p>You don't have kids so staying in the house is not a vital issue, and besides if you stay and she goes, the house with all it's memories will keep you in a depressed state of mind. So moving away may be just what your battered psyche needs. Not to mention that by her staying in the house she will have to responsable for all the mortgage payments and utilities and potential upkeep (plumbing, roof, landscaping, etc.)that a house requires.<p>Once you figure all your finances, you just might come out ahead at the end of each month while she will probably will be struggling to make ends meet.<p>Talk to your attorney so that she doesn't try to make you pay for a house that you won't live in anymore. She should be totally responsable for her own needs and not try to make you support her during the separation.<p>Try not to be mean to her during all these negotiations because it doesn't help your cause of marital reconciliation in the future.<p>Joe<p>[ May 15, 2002: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</p>

I am not sure if WS is able to tell the difference between a friendship and an EA. Or how a friendship can become an EA. Maybe she does know the difference but loves the feeling of the chase by OM, I don&#8217;t know. I hope she figures it out though. I don&#8217;t think Ws is capable of being by herself. Looking back I realize since HS she has never really been alone (not seeing someone). She has always had someone there for her. WS is a beautiful woman, In some cases I guess that can be a curse. I truly hope she finds herself.

I know the difference. And quite the contrary, I do NOT like the "chase". As I said before, I don't seek attention, in fact, it makes me uncomfortable. I am RUDE to men when they make advances. I just know OM was different.<p>I have never been without a relationship, but I have been independant since 18. For the record, funkedup has never been alone either. Being alone isn't fun, so I don't see why this is such an issue. No one wants to be alone.<p>I just hope we can move forward amicably. Oh and way to exaggerate about the EA's. It's 3 now? Just remember, everyone...there are 2 sides to this story.

The Funks,<p>I couldn't help but smile while reading your posts. You even argue here! Are you trying to get the board to say who's right and who's wrong?<p>You both are Wrong?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Ws is insisting that I leave BC it’s easier. IM not sure I want to do that. She cheats
and I have to move to a friend’s house for $350.00 a month for a bedroom half of what I have now. That doesn’t sound
fair to me. <hr></blockquote><p>This is plain resentment and only creates more anger. Its part of the process to separate, do it and get on....Try to realize that many of the "is it fair" questions can be answered with "does it really matter, really?"<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Oh and way to exaggerate about the EA's. It's 3 now? <hr></blockquote><p>Are you cheating on your OM too?<p>Yes, there are two sides to everything, and it is more difficult when you want to only see one. Perhaps you two do need some distance between you to really start to see eachother as you are, not the person you present outwardly to each other.<p>There seem to be many serious problems here, <p>good luck in your separation, try to stay in a win-win non hostile mode. It seems each of you will end up in a R, with eachother????<p>DRS

The Funks,<p>I couldn't help but smile while reading your posts. You even argue here! Are you trying to get the board to say who's right and who's wrong?<p>You both are Wrong?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Ws is insisting that I leave BC it’s easier. IM not sure I want to do that. She cheats
and I have to move to a friend’s house for $350.00 a month for a bedroom half of what I have now. That doesn’t sound
fair to me. <hr></blockquote><p>This is plain resentment and only creates more anger. Its part of the process to separate, do it and get on....Try to realize that many of the "is it fair" questions can be answered with "does it really matter, really?"<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Oh and way to exaggerate about the EA's. It's 3 now? <hr></blockquote><p>Are you cheating on your OM too?<p>Yes, there are two sides to everything, and it is more difficult when you want to only see one. Perhaps you two do need some distance between you to really start to see eachother as you are, not the person you present outwardly to each other.<p>There seem to be many serious problems here, <p>good luck in your separation, try to stay in a win-win non hostile mode. It seems each of you will end up in a R, with eachother????<p>DRS

A pinacle point for us was when we began working FOR each other...instead of against. The "do you want to be right or do you want to be married" statement applied very well to us. Because once I quit trying to MAKE my H see that I was right, and once he quit trying to prove HE was right...we both got along very nicely. "Does it really matter" is a very good way to look at it. And when I look at ANYTHING in my life that way...the answer is usually no, it's not THAT big of a deal.<p>There's a lot of hurt and anger between the two of you. You both can probly right a book to "prove" your side. All that will get you is bitterly divorced. Why not work together to make a safe environment for the two of you? Whether together or seperated? Two wrongs don't make a right...if one LB's...it does not warrant the other LBing. And, from what I've witnessed over my 31 years....nothing in life is fair.<p>Good luck, I know you'll need it!!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Are you cheating on your OM too?<hr></blockquote><p>What kind of question is that?<p>I asked "It's 3 now?" because last night we had a convo about how H thinks I have trouble with fending off advances. I gave an example of 2 (NOT 3) people who had made advances towards me in my previous jobs (both of which I did NOT pursue). H now assumes these were EAs, and I don't know where the third person came from!<p>I understand that both of us trying to state our cases here is like pissing in the wind. I am quite done arguing...I would just appreciate if he's going to talk about me on the boards, that it be the truth. <p>I want nothing more than to be civil about things from here on out. Who was right or wrong has no bearing at this point.<p>I am seeking IC. Need to do that for me.