Well, I finally talked to my W about Steve Harley's plan for restoring marriages. Her response was that she spoke to her lawyer about talking to Steve, and since she doesn't know who he is, he advised her not to until this is over (don't know if she meant the D or mediation). I didn't go into specifics about his plan and she didn't ask. I ended the discussion by saying if she reconsiders, she has his number. She said OK.<p>I also asked her what we were going to do for our daughter's b-day in a few weeks. She said she was just planning on having cake for her with her family at my in-laws. That's a shame, because our daughter's being cheated out of a party, but I know it's because she doesn't want her family talking to me. I'll probably have a little party for her anyway with my family and friends. I guess this shows where her priorities are.<p>So I guess I have to be proactive and get the D started myself. I can't continue to live this way, and nothing is likely to change until the messiness starts. So far, that has been avoided. I'm just not sure if I should tell her before or after mediation. On one hand I want to tell her before because it's what I feel I need to do regardless the outcome of mediation. On the other hand, I'd like to see her reaction if mediation doesn't go the way she expects it to. Tough call. Any thoughts???<p>sad dad

sad dad,
I am sorry for what you are going through, but I cant help but think making your daughter have two seperate parties, is hurting her, cant your wife, put her feelings aside and pretend for just one afternoon and let every one be there?<p> would be more healthy for your child.
I hate to see people taking there personal feelings for each other and giving it to the children. It is so unfair.

mom,<p>I agree, but she doesn't want me talking to her family. She never told me that, my BIL did. I guess she's affraid I'll spill the beans. It's a shame that she's putting her own interests ahead of our daughter's. She'll be 4, she deserves a party.<p>sad dad

Hello!<p>Since my Amanda is 4 I bet your D will be pretty close to her developmentally. When I had her BD party in March she didn't even notice that her dad wasn't there. The only thing that mattered was that she got a party with all the trimmings. Shallow I know, but hey, they're 4.<p>Let your wife do her thing, and you do yours. Make sure she gets the balloons and cake and presents, hats, blower thingies, and Dora the Explorer plates. <p>The birthday party stuff starts to get sticky when they get to be Chris' age - 8. Hopefully everything will be sane by then.<p>As far as the D goes, why not wait till mediation is over? That way you will have a plan in place for your D, and you won't feel like you are handling 2 big things at once.<p>E

sad dad,
sometimes it is hard for us to tell those we love, that we have messed up. Sometimes our pride is so important we dont look at the big picture.<p> Just do what you can for your little angel and continue to be polite to your wife in front of her.. it is so important not to discuss these things in front of small children, they hear more than we think.
God bless and pray that god will give you the strength to make it through this.

sad dad,
<strong>So I guess I have to be proactive and get the D started myself. I can't continue to live this way, and nothing is likely to change until the messiness starts. So far, that has been avoided. I'm just not sure if I should tell her before or after mediation. On one hand I want to tell her before because it's what I feel I need to do regardless the outcome of mediation. On the other hand, I'd like to see her reaction if mediation doesn't go the way she expects it to. Tough call. Any thoughts???</strong>[/QUOTE]
Your W is deep in her fog, nothing will matter right now. Consult lawyer to understand your right & to gather paper work but not to file Dv, not until you talk to SH. I know it is hard but you have to take it one day at a time !!!!. Let the mediation comes. You know that it is toward your benefit that W didn't start Dv. You could win this. Time is on your side if you use them wisely.<p>-RH-

Sad Dad,<p>I know it tough for children's parties during this time, but for my three year old my WW had a small party at her folks and I had one with my side of the family. It all went well. Both boys did not question anything. <p>My six year old has a birthday party next week at the bowling alley with his friends. It might be hard for my W, because one of the boys that we invited, his parents are close mutual friends of ours who think that WW is wrong for what she is doing to the family. I hope everything goes well. I told W that even though it's a tough situation, we are doing for the boys.<p>As for what to do with D. Listen you your heart. <p>Good Luck.

Just my 2 cents... don't start the D without consulting Steve. <p>You've gotten great advice here about your D's b'day. I think she'll be ok with 2 parties. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Seeing my xH coming out of the fog has me really confused about a lot of things... and I'm trying to stay focused on me and not hop back on the roller coaster. I don't know if the divorce was a necessary step in the whole scheme of things, but I think I stalled it as long as I could. I think you should too. I think you will feel better about it if you stall it. And I think your W really needs to see that you don't want it.<p>OTOH, if you allow the messiness to begin, reality may hit her, maybe she'll get her "precious divorce", and things may go downhill after that. Maybe she'll realize what she's going to lose. Seems there's several stories on here of the BS pushing the D... and that's what brings some reality to the situation.<p>XH told me last night that things had been rocky for him and OW since January, which is when he had to really start pushing me to agree on the divorce. I think OW was pushing for it, becoming impatient that it wasn't being done, and then it finally became finalized, the fog cleared from their eyes and they realized the fantasy was over. THey finally could see each other and the A for what they really were. He admitted that they had a "film" over their eyes (I bit my tongue but wanted to correct him and say it's called "fog" dummy [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ).<p>But, I think your W needs to be the one to push... not you.<p>just my thoughts...

wifey, mom & dino,<p>I'll give her a party anyway. She deserves it.<p>redhat,<p>I have talked to Steve about this and he advised me that if nothing changes as a result of mediation, it's time to start the D process myself. If we weren't still living together, it would be different, but emotionally I'm tapped out.<p>sad dad<p>dino,

We were busy typing at the same time [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>I see that you've consulted Steve about the D. ok [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>And besides "trying to force reality on the situation", it will bring you some closure - some relief - and allow you to move forward with your life. <p>sorry [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ... didn't mean to ignore your needs... YOU deserve some peace and sanity in your life. For your health, happiness, and strength as a dad. I don't want you to be a "sad dad" anymore.

faith1,<p>If by some miracle through nediation we can agree on shared custody (if only for the interim) and sell the house, I'll have a chance to take a step back, catch my breath and recharge my battery. If we can't come to an agreement and we continue to live in limbo, I have to take the steps to move on. SH told me that we have only a finite amount of emotional energy, and when that's gone, we begin to do things that sabotage everything we've tried to accomplish because we just don't care anymore. I find myself very near that point.<p>sad dad

^

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by sad dad:
<strong>So I guess I have to be proactive and get the D started myself. I can't continue to live this way, and nothing is likely to change until the messiness starts. So far, that has been avoided. I'm just not sure if I should tell her before or after mediation. On one hand I want to tell her before because it's what I feel I need to do regardless the outcome of mediation. On the other hand, I'd like to see her reaction if mediation doesn't go the way she expects it to. Tough call. Any thoughts???<p>sad dad</strong><hr></blockquote><p>sad dad-<p>We are in very similar places. SH and I have discussed this option as well. My WW offers no plan on marriage recovery. She says that it should just happen if we are civil to each other. She shoots down my ideas. She prefers to be on the defensive. We counseled with SH for nearly 8 months. Not until near the end of the counseling did I realize how reluctant of participant my W really was. Of course it turns out she was in still in contact with OM1 and involved with at least one other man.<p>I filed for D but not before being able to come to grips with the fact that this could likely end the marriage rather than shaking my W off of the fence. I chose not to go to mediation first because I can't trust my W right now. She is still keeping many secrets and hurting the family in other ways. I told my W that mediation is not an option until she stops the deceit and stops putting the family at risk with her work activities (some risk related to legal issues and some related to not bringing home a salary or reimbursement for expenses that we've covered for months). These sorts of risks are also the reason that I could not go to a Plan B.<p>My W's reaction to the filing? She's fighting with everything she's got. I was told that the steps my lawyer was taking would be like throwing fuel on a fire. I think this was an understatement. Continuing to live under the same roof makes life very tense. She only speaks to me if I speak to her. I guess it is kind of hard to ask, "How was you day hun? What did you do?" when you know your spouse has spent the afternoon seeing a lawyer regarding a divorce.<p>It sounds like you are coming to grips with the possibility that your marriage might not be saved. You need to think that way if you file for D. One possible hope I have is that the judge will order some sort of separation and counseling in an effort to see if the D can be avoided. A forced separation might be a way to initiate Plan B. Afterall, I'm not filing for D because my love bank is empty. On the other hand, I am beginning to harden. Steve said that this was predictable.<p>Good luck to you. I hope your daughter's Bday can be all you want it to be. Try to include her mom as much as possible in the decisions, planning, and execution of the celebration.<p>HoFS

Hi SD- sorry I didnt respond to you sooner- I've been overhauling my used book inventory! My youngest was turning 4 and we had a party at McDs for him last year. H filed for divorce on me two days after the party. Needless to say it made for a very tense birthday party atmosphere because even though he didn't tell me he was filing that wk he was cold and blamed me for everything that went wrong at the party. ( 2 boys fighting there etc!)I recommend you do your OWN party thing to avoid having the tense atmosphere I had last year. Ironically he was the one to insist I HAVE a party for him! I really think you can't expect any decent outcome with WS when it comes to things like this! About the mediation thing- I wouldn't tip your hand on that- just let it unfold how it starts next wk. Take care- LIM

HSF,<p>Yeah, our situations are similar, except that my W filed for D. That was 6-1/2 months ago and she has not taken one step since. She has shot down every suggestion I've had, from attempting to reconcile, to talking with SH, to selling the house and sharing custody of our daughter just to get a break from each other or until this is resolved either way. I think you know all of this. All I can hope is that mediation is successful and we begin to make some progress one way or another. I don't believe my marriage is hopeless, I just don't have much left in the tank.<p>lim,<p>I'll wait and see how mediation unfolds. Thanks as always.<p>sad dad

Hi sad dad - FWIW, I recommend holding off on the divorce filing until well into mediation. I recommend this from a practical standpoint: (disclaimer: I did not go thru mediation; the specifics in my case were hammered out in our separation agreement, long before the divorce.)<p>I suspect that in mediation, you'll have more opportunity for dialogue and discussion of the soft issues, with the mediator being, presumably, a rational person. Ultimately, the same questions will have to be answered, either in mediation or thru divorce proceedings. But in a court they'll be less likely to even discuss the soft issues. Everything will be in a totally legal setting with less opportunity for compromise, etc. Not that the judge won't be rational, but there's no guarantee that he/she will consider anything other than the written law. This is all a suspicion on my part as I don't have direct experience.<p>Regarding you vs. her filing: As you probably know, I have recommended here quite frequently that my personal decision NOT to file - knowing that my WS was intending to - was the best one for me and maybe it'll be the best decision for others. My logic was that she made the decision to have an affair and continue an affair against my wishes; she made the decision to move out against my wishes; she turned down my repeated offers for counseling; she made the decision to file for divorce against my wishes; and she made the decision to follow thru with it against my wishes. Result: all of this huge mess was by her decisions and I am guilt free.<p>I fully understand this course may not be available for everyone and I can imagine getting to the point of the BS needing to make the filing decision. As others have said, sometimes this makes a HUGE impact on the WS. I think it's impossible to predict how a particular WS will react. When I made my decisions NOT to act, I was absolutely sure of how I would end up - guilt free. My X may someday look for someone to blame for her situation. She'll have no where to look other than in the mirror.<p>Hope this helps.<p>WAT

sad dad,<p>Sorry to hear your situation. It does sound complicated and painful.<p>Have you counseled with SH yet? Maybe he could give you the best course of action. I'm thinking that skipping mediation might be the leverage you need to snap her out of it, but I don't know. Hopefully SH would know. If you want to save it then get some professional advice soon.

WAT & all,<p>I just want to clarify one thing, my W HAS already filed, she just hasn't taken any steps regarding the D. I understand your reasoning, but what differs in our respective situations is that we still live together, and this is sucking the life (and love) right out of me. I agree that mediation may give us a chance to discuss some issues with the benefit of a third party.<p>W2FI,<p>Yes, I have been counseling with Steve since last summer. He agrees that it may be time for ME to get the process started and begin to move on. <p>To everyone, I am NOT considering getting the D started to shake things up or give my W a dose of reality. I am considering it because at this point I would rather be divorced than continue to live like this.<p>sad dad

So, what can we help you with?<p>You said:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Any thoughts??? <hr></blockquote><p>We gave them to you [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . <p>It sounds like you have thought things through pretty well, plus strategizing with Steve. If you are ready to push the D (sounds like you are), then we're here to support you best we can. We certainly won't dis-own you at all for choosing to move forward with the D. Some people here didn't want me to give in when I did. But I felt I had to, and noone dis-owned me. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If you're asking when to tell W, I wouldn't - or at least wouldn't make an annoucement or anything. Can you go through the mediation first - before you take any more steps toward the D?<p>You also said:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I would rather be divorced than continue to live like this. <hr></blockquote><p>I haven't been in your situation, so I don't know. All I know is my situation, and I'm glad I stalled the D as long as I could. Like WAT said - no guilt here. No one could ever say that I actually wanted a divorce. Being divorced sucks too, sad dad. That's why I'm encouraging you to NOT push for it. But that's only from my perspective. Divorce is not the end of the world - I'm ok, and I'm gonna be ok! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Can you - instead - push for separation? Move out perhaps?<p>I'm sure you've explained that to us a million times. You don't have to answer... just throwing out ideas. Plus, I'm not sure what kind of thoughts and ideas you're looking for from us. I figured you wanted options. If it's support - you got that too, k?<p>{{{{sad dad}}}}<p>Faith1

faith1,<p>The tenor of your last reply gave me the impression that you think I'm getting defensive.
That's not the case. I appreciate the opinions and suggestions offered. I realize everyone on this board is not as familiar with my story as you, lifeismessy, WAT and others, so I just wanted to clarify some things for those new to my situation. Sorry if it sounded like I was irritated.<p>sad dad