I have not read the book yet. It is on order. So, I may not use the right lingo.
It has been 3 months. My H says he will be out soon to get his self together but how can he if he still contacts the OW? I guess I am inpatient. We have 3 kids, they all know but only the 2 oldest know the reason(affair). I am so afraid of being alone. It takes everything not to call and check up on him constantly. I have no reason to think the affair is over because he told me it was not. He does not want to end it in case we don't work things out. I have made myself sick. From 115lbs to 95. I am finding work and life in general difficult. I know I have to get a hard shell. I can not tell him to go for fear he'll blame me as if that would be different. I could really use some advice knowing that there is no right answer.

RNRoscoe,
The book? I'm assuming you are talking about "Surviving An Affair". This is a good place to start for You AND your H. I believe that everything you talk about is pretty much normal but terrifing none the less. Get that book and make sure HE reads it ,too!
Brw [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Rn,
I'm sorry you're in this situation.<p>You're likely right that your H isn't leaving to pull himself together, he's leaving because he's having an affair, and not being in the house with you will make that easier.<p>You don't give the ages of your children, but it's tough to have kids old enough to realize their parent is having an affair. Since, I assume they will be with you, it will also fall on your shoulders to explain difficult circumstances to them if he does leave. He really should tell the kids himself if he is leaving. And it is ok for you to say you would want him to stay, you don't have to lie and go along with "your mother and I have agreed..." But, that's up to you and your comfort level.<p>So, right now, with him still in the home, I'd advise you to go with Plan A, which is being a loving wife who wants her marriage to work, with no lovebusters, which are angry outbursts, selfish demands, thoughtless decsions, passing judgements on his character (I'm doing this from memory, but that's close).<p>If his affair is active and he's in contact, Plan A may not change his mind, but it will give him good memories of you and a clear indication that you love him and want the marriage. It also offers you a time to work on yourself, to make any positive changes that you think are necessary. You can continue Plan A through a separation. In fact, I found it a little easier not to lovebust when I saw him for shorter periods of time, but my H didn't mind me keeping in contact with him and he came over to see the kids often, so I could effectively Plan A.<p>For your marriage to succeed, he really does need to end the affair, but nothing you do will force him to do that. You can't control his behavior, only your own. You can't change him, only yourself.<p>It doesn't sound like you will really be by yourself, unless your children are out of the house, they are there. In either case, you could look at it as time to work on yourself, to read through the MB site, the many books that are recommended here. I know I spent a lot of separated time reading. <p>Separation is difficult, but it isn't necessarily the end of the marriage. Sometimes it forces a reality into the affair that wasn't there before, sometimes that's the beginning of the end, though it can take a long time. Dr. Harley cites an average of 6 months to 2 years from affair's revelation to end. The great majority of affairs do end.<p>You also might want to find a really good counselor, for yourself if he won't go because whether he ends up leaving or not, you'll have a lot of issues to deal with. Marriage builders forums are a great place to come when you want advice, support or to talk, but counseling is a good addition. Steve & Jennifer Harley offer phone consultation appointments through this site.<p>My marriage is 2 years in recovery after 2+ bad years, with lots of separations & turmoil, there are good outcomes. It is important for you to work on yourself as well because sometimes the success is personal and the marriage doesn't make it.<p>It may not seem like it, but you can be okay, you can survive and heal and recover.

Everything Lor said, but I'll help with clarifying the big 3 LBs (Love Busters): Angry outbursts, selfish demands, and disrespectful judgments. And it really helps to read up on these. Dr. Harley explains them very well. I thought I understood what they were, and the more I read, the more I discovered how many things you at first think don't fall into those categories really in fact do. Since the most important part of Plan A is eliminating LBs, it really pays to educate yourself about that.<p>You are right not to pursue by calling, begging, pleading, all of that kind of stuff. Stand on your own two feet. Convey the attitude that he married you of his own free will. No one held a gun to his head, so if he wants to leave of his own free will, then you accept that as well. Keep the cage door open, so to speak, but keep the cage as attractive and comfortable as possible.<p>For now, I'd put all energy into learning about LBs and eliminating them. You will get the most mileage out of that. For now, no talks about the M, the A, the OW. Just be a friendly companion enjoyable to be around. As long as he is not proving to you that he is NOT having an A (following the extraordinary precautions from SAA), then it is most likely that he IS having an A.<p>I would not ask him to read SAA unless he expresses an interest in marital recovery. Actions speak louder than words. Moving out is a distancing action, not a marriage-building action. But definitely read it yourself, although I'd keep it out of sight while doing so while he's in OW-pursuit mode.<p>Most important, take care of your physical health. I know how hard it is to eat under this kind of emotional duress, but maybe some Ensure liquid nourishment? Nurture yourself as you would a friend or sister who was going through this.

Thank you. I just am so disturbed by this man I now live with. He is not who I married. I am desperate to rebuild our marriage but without his commitment, it is lost. He is running out of time on his lease. If he doesn't go soon, he will have to renew. I know I cannot control his behavior.
I am angry but pity his anguish. I want to through my wedding ring off a bridge. It is so hard to slap on a happy face when you are dying inside and the kids are do sad also but they won't talk to him because they don't want to upset him.
Even though I know he is seeing the other woman, do I turn a blind eye and let him stay as long as he wants?

Thanks Conqueror, for some reason I can never remember that is it "disrespectful" that goes with "judgements".<p>RN,
Dr. Harley recommends a 6 month Plan A. I think Plan A with the wayward spouse at home and continuing the affair is difficult, but for awhile, doable. <p>I did my Plan A in increments, I'd set a goal of 2 weeks or a month at a time, and re-evaluate at the end of the time if I was capable of continuing. I ended up in Plan A for 18 months doing that way, a step at a time. Though I did try Plan B with separations #5 & 6, I found that equally difficult with the ages of our children, ages 10 & 13 at the time of the first separation. I don't have relatives in town & my friends were worn out, so communicating about the children, going to the same games, concerts was unavoidable.<p>Your marriage is failing now, but that doesn't mean it will always be failing. If your desire is for your marriage to recover at some point, your task is to keep yourself at the point where reconciliation is possible for you. To keep the love alive. An affair drains your lovebank. <p>There was a time part of my Plan A was simply offering unconditional love, expecting nothing back. Low & lowered expectations. Not being a doormat, but just putting the love I felt for my H out there.<p>My H stated he wasn't in love with me. He didn't want to be committed to me. He didn't want to re-commit to me. For much of the time he didn't want a divorce, but he didn't want to be a husband. Then a year plus latere, he did want a divorce, but didn't go see a lawyer.<p>We came back from that, and more, to today having a good marriage. In love, trust returning...dare I say happy? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It took a lot of patience, time, love, and finally 2 years into the bad times, letting him go completely.<p>I know those timelines seem awful, but I didn't do all 2 years at once, I did it one day at a time. Cliche, but true.

I didn't have Lor's fortitude. My Plan A only lasted 4 months, and then I was ready for Plan B. I simply could not function anymore at that point. I did it the same way Lor did, though, with setting interim time limits. The first step of Plan A is to set a time limit. How long do you think you can do it? I know our first answer is we don't think we can stand it even one more day, but usually we can. Sometimes I had to set time limits of even less than a day!<p>Another thing that helped me is the unconditional love Lor described. For a stretch of time I was able to maintain meeting my H's ENs by putting it into the category of washing Jesus' feet. I know my H is someone Jesus loves and wants to return home, so when I thought of what I was doing as being His instrument to love my H, I was able to keep going.<p>Sometimes I thought of my H as one of those CPR dummies, but instead of learning CPR, I was learning vital MB skills for my NEXT H! Of course, I was giving him the choice of BEING my next H, but if he opted out, these skills would come in very handy in my next M.<p>Sometimes I hung on and did what needed to be done to follow the plan just because everybody here was encouraging me to do so and I didn't want to disappoint them by wussing out.<p>When you have a plan and set goals, you discover resources you didn't know you had and you find ways to reach the goals and follow the plan. I just grasped for ANYTHING that would get me there. Oh yeah, if no one mentioned anti-depressants, that is a helpful tool as well.<p>When I tried to go to Plan B, my H refused to leave and promised to follow a marital recovery plan. He hasn't done that formally, but I can attest to the efficacy of avoiding LBs because I had barely a smudge left in my LB$ for him back in January, and he has not LBed since then, and I'm actually feeling some affection for him again, looking forward to him coming home at the end of the day rather than dreading it, that kind of thing.<p>So, set your time limit and keep setting it as you need to, and commit to eliminating LBs from all of your interactions with your H. It WILL help you to feel better (at least once in a while) and it may influence your H's feelings towards you.

I have made some progress with myself. I accept my part of it and have forgiven him the part of why he started the affair but can't forgive him for not stopping the affair. He says he wants our marriage but is holding this back up plan over my head.
She is trying to work her way into my kids lives and the kids are having a hard time dealing with it. He doesn't like it but won't confront her about it (she stalks us). Trying not to LB, I feel I cannot bring it up. I've told my children to love their dad but if she makes them uncomfortable to walk away! I try to keep them away but it is like she is always there. I don't want to make a public scene.
I really want to work on our marriage but the frustration of all this is eating at me.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by RNROSCOE:
<strong> He says he wants our marriage but is holding this back up plan over my head.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, it's either/or. If he keeps the OW in his back pocket, the M has zero chance for recovery. Either he knows that and is lying about wanting the M in order to manipulate you, or he is in denial about it. Either way, YOU need to know that his words and actions do not match, and for safety's sake, you need to pay attention to his actions, not his words.<p>I personally would not behave as if I believed his malarkey about wanting the M. I wouldn't be confrontational, but I'd behave as I would if he was moving out in preparation for divorce. I'd be just as separated as he is--without an A of course, but I'd mirror everything else. I'd be friendly, upbeat, pleasant and enjoyable to be around, but very obviously my very own person who sees him as the father of my children, nothing more, nothing less.<p>I'd behave as if it was a foregone conclusion that there is no "us" anymore, but that I'd consider there being an "us" if he was free from all other entanglements. But I'd convey in my attitude, demeanor, activities, appearance, etc., that I was moving on without him since he is so obviously not IN the M, but took himself out of it. I'd act very accepting of his decision to opt out of the M and oh what a shame that he's going to miss out on the wonderful life the kids and I are going to have.<p>IOW, I would noticeably BLOOM now that his oppression and abuse is no longer blocking the sun.

RNROSCOE,<p>Like most everyone here, I have been were you are. I have lost around 15 pounds so far. Since I was a little heavy to begin with, I have turned this into a positive thing. Please take care of yourself. The A will eventually end. Find strength in that, and try to eat. I can always eat icecream when I am feeling down and some of the other foods I really like lasagna and cajun foods. <p>Good luck and read SAA, it has helped me beyond belief. Keep posting.

I am very depressed today. I took the day off of work to go to the counselor and my medical doctor. I caught H in a lie. I did some big time LBing. It is like I can't control myself when he blames me for everything. He says he wants to end the relationship but doesn't know how or when because he still cares for her. But what about me and the kids. He wants his space and just to be left alone but he won't leave on his own terms. He wants me to kick him out so he can blame that on me too. He does not see my pain only his. Why do a want such a heartless man? This is truely the first time that I felt like the only way out was to end it. I can't take this pain. I can't take the thought of them together laughing at my desperation. I hope someone will give me some antidepresants so I can think more clearly. Help me understand! I read the Surviving Affair book but it is not helping.