I truly believe him. He was ambivalent. He felt an obligation. H is the type of person who will hang on to this feeling that he had 33 years ago and live his life accordingly. <p>He recently has shared this information with me. It hurt so bad, but it explained so much about our marriage. There has frequently been an undercurrent of uneasiness, but I never understood what it was till now. <p>We have had some really good times and some very bad ones. I really dont know where to go from here. My love bank is nearly empty.<p>If I thought his thinking was from the fog of infidelity, it would be easier for me to deal with. It seems that it is from a fog of doubt and of regretting getting married at all.<p>We have been apart (in other states) for several months now because of his business ventures. I'll be joining him in a month or so. OW from EA is there, I'm not looking forward to it. <p>I have a strong need to know something before I go there and put myself through needless pain.
I would like to know what he is doing(if anything) to protect our marriage from infidelity. To know how he is interacting with the women that surround him. What is he doing to protect ME from HIS weaknesses and behaviors. He knows that I very carefully protect our marriage from other men.<p>I would also like to know if he feels any kind of commitment to rebuilding our marriage. What is it that he is willing to do, what would he like to happen.<p>I don't feel like I can ask anything of this man right now. <p>I know this post sounds very negative and very dead and hopeless. That's because I feel that way.
I know I need to change my outlook and attitude.
I feel like I'm married to a male Scarlett O'hara.
Can somebody please tell me a good joke or something? <p>One thing I know for sure, if this marriage ends I know I will survive. That is one thing I need him to know. If he truly does not want me that I'm not going to keel over dead or cause him trouble. I will without a doubt survive and thrive.<p>Replaced [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Yes, you will survive!<p>But let me tell you - the things he's saying - CLASSIC WS fog talking. What a load of crap! <p>If your lovebank is close to empty - time for Plan B!

If a man is unfaithful and has a history of lying to continue contacting OW... How do you know his statement is true? He actually DIDN'T want to marry me.<p>I think you can't put any stock into what he says. Although his statement seems to fit his motives for today, that the grass is greener over there...<p>I look forward to seeing how many people post saying they heard the same thing. It is in the vocabulary of WS - its textbook. Nothing out of the ordinary fog here.

My first response to the title of your post was, "So?". [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] Because to me that is a nonissue. If he truly did not want to marry you, then he wouldn't have. He can't hold YOU responsible for HIS choices. If he married someone without enthusiastic agreement, then HE violated YOU. You did nothing wrong. What he is revealing by trying to get himself off the hook by saying I never really wanted you anyway is that he has been a liar and user from the very beginning of your R.<p>I think it is valid to say that you no longer feel safe and protected in the R and ask him if he has a plan to address that issue. I can't remember--how long have you been in Plan A?

Replaced,
There are times I have to say to myself.."what's the worst that could happen" and then list my fears. But I ask you, what is the worst that could happen if you wrote him a letter outlining exactly what you have said to us?<p>In her book, Janis Springs Abrams writes "&#8220;For you to heal and forgive, you must be convinced your partner grasps how deeply you've been violated. For that to happen, you must talk about the affair and how it affected you at the most personal level.&#8221; <p>I really believe that..it's something we've skirted around, but I realize it is influencing those doubts I have about our relationship.<p>It sounds like you have a little time before joining him. Write a letter expressing exactly how you feel about all that has gone on and go ahead and ask those important questions now. Especially about his throughts about rebuilding the marriage. Get some sort of feeling for what you're up against.<p>The worst that could happen will not be if he writes back and says he just doesn't even want to try..it will be if he ignores it completely..but either way you get the information you need.
T

Yep, I've heard that one before too, even that he doesn't love me any more and that's why he is getting the divorce. I laughed when he said this because his mouth was saying one thing and his eyes were saying, "is she buying it?". His eyes kept flickering on and off with love, like he would realize his eyes were saying something and then go, Opps, and try to cover the feelings back up. He even tried putting on his sunglasses to cover this up! Finally he gave up and said I was too smart for my own good. <p>Did he tell you this in person or over the phone? My H told me the first time that he had fallen out of love with me, etc., etc., over the phone, later I found out the OW was sitting there as he was saying this. Those OW's sure can cast a spell in getting what they want out of our H's, it's a huge manipulation game.<p>My reasoning for him to have said these things is to try to make himself feel better for what he was doing. He stated he had wanted to just write me a letter and not do it in person, but I ran into him at our storage bin. He wanted to write that letter so that I couldn't see what I saw. <p>Take things like that and let them just roll off your back. Just try to focus on any good things he may have said instead. I know it's easier said than done, but trust me, those thoughts are what get me out of bed in the mornings sometimes and gives me the strengh to carry on.

When I first busted my H he spewed all kinds of abusive garbage at me such as "When are you going to get it through your head that I don't want to be with you?", how I was a pathetic loser, and all kinds of crap. He was like a wounded trapped animal. While I couldn't stay after that and we did separate for several months, I know he didn't mean what he was saying. It sounds like time to consider plan B like new_beginning said.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Twyla:
<strong>The worst that could happen will not be if he writes back and says he just doesn't even want to try..it will be if he ignores it completely..but either way you get the information you need.
T</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I did this back in December. I wrote a letter describing the kind of M I wanted (where we are each other's highest priority, cared for, protected, etc.) and asking what he wanted. I didn't go into a whole lot of detail about the A and how I felt and all that because I just wanted to find out if there was any chance at all that we even wanted the same things out of M.<p>His answer was as Twyla describes above. I found my letter in the bathroom trash can. Very disheartening that I wasn't even worth answering, but at least I knew where I stood. I went to Last Resort Technique then and less than a month later, attempted to go to Plan B, but he decided to commit to recovery instead. Still a long way to go on that, but he has eliminated the major LBs since then.<p>BTW, off topic, but my H is making the "Let's have another baby" statement at least daily now. I think he's making a joke out of it, but still. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ May 15, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Yea, my ex-H said that I forced him to marry him As I recall it took him two months to convince me that he'd change enough for me to say yes. <p>Everyone has feelings of doubt mixed in with the feelings of love and excitement when they are getting married. It’s a very emotionally charged time. Right now your H is rewriting history to remember and exaggerate any feelings of doubt/fear he had at the time. I have yet to see any full grown man who could be forced into marrying anyone.<p>Don’t buy this normal WS dribble.

To all,<p>I do understand that what he is saying is classic WS dribble, fog, etc. Recently he told me over the phone that he does not miss me, he loves me but is not in love with me, I know, I know, classic.<p>Have been in Plan A for a couple of months, it's weak, but the best I can do from 1000 miles away.
From my POV it's been almost LB free.<p>As far as plan B goes, I need a little more info from him first. I will have to go with my guts as far as trusting the info he gives me. The days of blind trust are over. I definitely do not automatically assume that what he says is true. <p>I've been kickin' the idea of a letter around for awhile. Have already sent some emails letting him know that I do not feel safe in our marriage. Also that I can feel his resentment for me and I would like to know what those resentments are.<p>I think I havent fully realized what this most recent EA has done to me, and I KNOW he does not yet realize how close he is coming to losing me.
I have come to associate him with far more pain than pleasure. The business we have out of state is a lifelong dream of his, this is where the EA happened, OW took care of him like a wife(better than a wife). She comes in our place of business frequently(she's a supplier), she helped build our business, rescued H from every pitfall he encountered, counseled, confidant, paperwork, spirittual counseling, best friend(soul mate),employee, manager, bookeeper, about 10 other things I cant think of. She has contaminated this place that was his dream that I was to share with him. There is not one square inch of that place that she has not had hands on involvement with. I finally have her pegged as a narcissistic Jezebel. This is where I have to go in a couple of months. Once I'm there I'll be OK. Am I OK now? Absolutely not. There are many other people who know this OW personally and agree with my opinion of her.
[img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Right now I only have one fear, and that is being LIED to. I have to make it clear to H how I feel about all this, that I need certain answers before I can even come over there with him.<p>I really dont expect an answer to my letter, that will not suprise me in the least.<p>Replaced

Conqueror, <p>Are you considering it, a baby I mean?<p>Replaced

Part of me will always want another baby, I guess. Considering my age, it's a carrot that shouldn't be dangled in my face since it would probably be my last chance to have another baby, so in that sense it is tempting because it's not something I can postpone and think about later. But I wasn't thinking about it before he brought it up, so it's bugging me that he keeps bringing it up.<p>I had put that part of my life behind me, and now here he is (of all people!!!!! the champion tormentor of pregnant women, well pregnant me anyway [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ) tempting me! [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] From every single perspective other than the maternal instinct/sentimental one, I have absolutely no business having another baby, so I'll just have to ignore him, I guess, and not get sucked in.

Hi Replaced,<p>I'm sorry for what your H said. Unfortuntely it is typical WS Fog speak.<p>My ex-H told me right after the D was final that our marriage was on a trial basis anyway ... kinda as a matter of fact. Here's how it went after he said it the first time:<p>Me: "What?"<p>ex-H: "I said our marriage was on a trial basis"<p>Me: "I wish someone would have told ME that"<p>ex-H: "ughh, I guess it's just our poor communication"<p>I was livid when we hung up. We had been married nearly 16 years ... we even renewed our vows on the 10th year Anni! AND IT WAS A "TRIAL"?<p>Point being, they say crazy things to relieve their guilt, and listening to them, you start to doubt yourself.<p>Because I'll tell you, I walked away from that conversation thinking I truly missed or forgot the agreement that we were on a Trial Basis. I racked my brain for a few days after that trying to figure out what I missed. I ALMOST bought into it ... until I talked with my therapist. Thank God for her.<p>Replaced, we too, at times, had an undercurrent of uneasiness. But it wasn't there all the time throughout our entire 20 years together or anything. Just once in a while, usually after an argument. But it did go away after we talked. <p>I think your H has you snowed. I've seen so many stories here where the WS says they never wanted to get married, or they were forced, or felt obligated, or were brainwashed, or got married for the wrong reasons, were too young, were too old, their mother made them do it, they were on the rebound .... on and on and on. <p>Bottom line, they made a commitment, they said vows ... and they alone are responsible for their 100% of the 50% of their marriage, and you the other 50%. Unless someone held a gun to their head ... (and we've yet to hear that one on this forum, but give it time lol) they made the decision and they own that decision.<p>JMHO ....<p>Love,
Jo

Resilient,<p>I guess I'll just have to let it roll off my back.
I'm so easily duped, 'cause of all the emotions I guess. Like Conqueror said, even if what he says IS true, he made the choice to marry me, I certainly did nothing to trap him into it.<p>The uneasiness we have is from being afraid to be honest with our thoughts and feelings. We're scared to "spit it out", to lay the cards on the table. It's a problem off and on, and it does drift away, but nothing gets resolved.<p>Hopefully before I join him in a couple months, I'll have myself a little better educated from posting on here.<p>
zorweb,<p>I like your idea of exaggerating feelings of doubt and fear that we REALLY DO have when we get married. OK that makes sense, that rewriting history can be an exaggeration of something real and/or focusing only on bad and forgetting the good just to relieve guilt etc.<p>Replaced