Just wondering how many BS's have felt the need to compete with OM even after the A is over and they have won their WW back.<p>I had an A with a slightly younger man(6 years younger than my H 3 years younger than myself). He was not only younger but was in a position in his family where he had a lot of money, big house, nice cars etc. My H and I have been in a really great recovery for 6 months now and he is very successful in his career but is still jealous of OM even though there has been no contact and OM is out of the picture. I feel there is no reason to be jealous, and have tried to reasure him that I love him and am proud of how well he provides for our family. He feels like he won't be able to provide for me as well as OM could. It has never been a money issue for me at all. Do all men feel threatned by situations like this even after they know they have all of their wife's love and OM is no longer a real threat?<p>Just wondering<p>[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: definitely unsure ]</p>

I'm not a guy, but I'll put in a pennies' worth here. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I hope you'll get some "guy" input as well, because I'm sure it's a bit different, as far as the "competition" thing goes.<p>Generally speaking though, I think that's a pretty common feeling in us BS's. Our WS's obviously saw something in the OP, and there's usually some strengths that the OP has, that we can never achieve. My XH's OW was a size 2. I'll NEVER be a size 2 - or 4 - or 6!!! This would probably bother me for a long time. OW was a great cook. This is something I could learn, but it would probably bother me as well. <p>We BS's have to focus on our strenghts - we have them. And we can't worry about the other stuff. <p>Your H needs to learn what YOUR biggest EN's are, and strive to meet them. If Financial Security is a big need of yours, tell him. You 2 have to communicate on how well he's doing. YOu need to be honest with him. And keep reassuring him if he's doing well, and if he still feels inadequate. <p>Remember the 4 rules of recovery: Protection, Care, Honesty, and Time. Lots of time and patience. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I can't answer you question directly since my WW is still continuing her relationship with OM. But even now I do not feel jealous of him. I am sad that I am not given the opportunity to meet her EN and angry but not jealous. I do feel good about myself, who I am, and the things I can provide. From these feelings I have about myself, I do not even attempt to compare myself to the OM.<p>Just from my perspective, I would suggest that your H has a high need for admiration (just guessing). He seems to have taken the A as a sign that he doesn't measure up in some categories. Only you can communicate what is important to you and your ENs. It will take time but since you are togther it seems he is meeting the important needs you have. This is the reassurance that he needs. You may say it was never about money, but your H is fixated on the differences between him and the OM. If this is the case, let him know that he is better than the OM in meeting the important needs. Reinforce this to him and in time it should sink in.

definitely unsure...<p>I can't answer for all men but I have a feeling if I ever get into recovery with my WW this very well may be an issue.<p>I have a good job, make a decent salary and my W was never shortchanged in terms of nice home, clothes, travel, cars, home help etc....<p> But OM has lots of $$$$, very high profile in his city, two homes, lots of perks in his job, yadayadayada....<p> WW said at one point when I asked her straight out about the money that it was "part of the package" that made him attractive. (I know fog talk, but it is still hard to ignore--obviously i still remember it and it was a year ago.)<p>Sooooooo...given that the male ego is kind of fragile anyway and we (at least most of us) still feel like we need to be the providers, yeah...I can see how that could be a problem for your H and how it may become a problem for me.<p>I think it certainly helps that you are being reassuring and telling him the things you mentioned.<p>The only thing I would say about that is that, while you think it may be reassuring, only the BS knows for sure how reasured he feels about himself and his ability to make you happy. So, while you may think you are doing plenty, perhaps in his eyes it's still not enough. <p>You really need to ask him and communicate as best as you can. <p>Sometimes it's not just the reassurance that's important but also (perhaps) not mentioning the things you wished you had if there was more $$$$ or more opportunity etc. <p>Anyway...just my $0.02...<p>Good luck <p>E<p>[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: Elad ]</p>

Hi ... not a male here, but I am a BS. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I have a differennt take on this question you asked.<p>Although I do believe the OP is making love bank deposits by meeting a subset of the WS's ENs which you could compare to what needs the BS was/is meeting, I believe a significant part of the attraction to the OP is HOW THEY MAKE THE WS FEEL ABOUT THEMSELVES.<p>So if you look at the A in terms of competition, which I really don't subscribe to, you may want to start thinking about the ENs that are making your WS feel good about themselves. You can bet BIG $$$ that the OP is meeting those needs which is feeding the A.<p>Did that make sense .. it was somewhat hard to explain.<p>Lv,
Jo<p>[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Jo has hit on a very important part of this...<p>When my WW was deep in the A and fogged up completely she told me "He makes me feel good about myself." <p>That's tough stuff for a BS to hear but Jo is absolutely right that it is, at least in part, about the WS and how they are made to feel by the OP.<p>I do think that a guy hears/feels differently about all that than a woman does but that's just the difference between Mars and Venus...<p>One thing though, Jo, for guys it is sometimes very difficult for us not to look at this as competition. We're kind of wired that way [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>E<p>[ May 16, 2002: Message edited by: Elad ]</p>

Faith1,
Thanks for your input maybe I should not have directed this question to just the guys. I am sure there are many BW's that feel like you do.<p>Onwardandup,
Boy do I wish my H was as confident as you are. Thanks for the advice, I like what you said about letting him know that he fufills the important EN's(which he does). Maybe you are right it will sink in soon.<p>Elad,
Thank you for your $.02, I was beginning to think he was the only man that felt this way I hope he realizes soon that OM is no threat and he has no worries about me hurting him again. It is kind of hard to prove that to him but I'm not giving up until he believes he is the only man for me.<p>Thanks for your replies

You're right, E. You guys are hard-wired a bit differently. Very important point to remember.<p>
Jo

Definately Unsure,
My situation may be a little bit unique. My WW has rejected any & all ideas about recovery from here, books, counselors -- she wants to do on her terms. She has not exactly divulged what was the cause of her unfaithfulness with these two guys that were 14 & 18 years younger than me -- at one point she said it was "Exciting," another time she simply said she did not know & the third thing she has said is that they were preditors & that she was a victim. They visited our home and they met at motel and her cell phone bill was extensive with her calls to them. She even called the first guy from her cousins, 300 miles away at 11:00 & 11:30 at night -- at the same time she would bust my chops if I did not have a "good reason" for calling her!
She is very protective of her freedom & gets annoyed if I call her -- at work or at home on her days off. She did not get me a birthday card or anything. She does give me any signs of affection (or love), says she is just not that kind of person. And she is somewhat particular about how I dress (wants young look), my hair style (doesn't want to se any grey) and continually asks if I have put back on a few pounds.
Oh, and finally, she wears hip hugger pants with tight tops that just come to top of pants, so the slightest movement exposes her full body tan. She is 5'5' and weights 130lbs. wears size 6 pants & "S" tops to give you an idea.
What do you think? Yea, the thought of her jumping into another guys arms crosses my mind some times.
Despite all these negatives, I understand that she has a sickness of sorts (in addition to her MLC thing) and I am not as anxious now -- day by day -- the thing that I think about the most is that she seemed like she does now during what I now know was a six month period she was having S with these two guys and we were active twice a day. She offers no more signs of her love and comittment to me than she did during this period of time, so that is what makes me wonder the most -- how am I supposed to measure this?
She expect me to accept this comittment of sorts by blind faith I suppose. I say comittment, becasue she tells me that she cannot tell me that she loves me. When I ask (and I have not asked lately cause I am told this is "controlling") if she loves me, she is honest, she says, "I don't know" Now this makes me wonder, she was so dishonest about the A's and she cannot stretch the truth a little to say "I love You"
I know these are her issues, more than mine, and despite how it may sound I am not resentful or cynical -- just thought you might appreciate an example of how IMHO, NOT TO NOT MAKE YOUR H FEEL BETTER IN HIS RECOVERY!
My message -- show him you care -- if you think you are over doing it, do it twice as much!
Sounds like you are doing OK, considering!
Peace, [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
HH

definitely unsure...<p>I admire this commitment:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by definitely unsure:
<strong>I hope he realizes soon that OM is no threat and he has no worries about me hurting him again. It is kind of hard to prove that to him but I'm not giving up until he believes he is the only man for me.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>The only way you can do that is a day at a time...
keep that attitude and you will do fine... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Good luck <p>E

I'm divorced now, but I'll answer this anyway.<p>I wasn't jealous per se, but after being told what things the OM did that I didn't, it raised doubts in my mind. Leading up to discovery, we had a lot of arguments which mostly ended by me asking why she didn't respect me and why did she marry me. When your spouse has and affair, your confidence takes a big hit. It takes a long time to get that self-confidence back.

Just wanted to add:<p>Faith1, and Elad,
I love the quotes at the end of your posts.<p>Also, Elad I think you are right I have to agree with Jo too. Thanks Jo for shedding some light on this I never really thought of it that way. You made wonderful sense to me, the only thing is now how do I explain that to my H, or do I even want to. It might make him feel like - "So, not only could he buy you anything you want but he made you feel like a queen too, just great"

ditto Elad:<p>
keep that attitude and you will do fine... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by definitely unsure:
Thanks Jo for shedding some light on this I never really thought of it that way. You made wonderful sense to me, the only thing is now how do I explain that to my H, or do I even want to. It might make him feel like - "So, not only could he buy you anything you want but he made you feel like a queen too, just great"<hr></blockquote><p>No, no, no .... DU.<p>You need to reverse engineer it, Hon. Ask YOURSELF the question, what did OM do or say that made me feel so good about myself. And when you come up with the answer, communicate that to your H by filling out the Emotional Needs Questionare. He needs to fill one out as well. Then exchange them.<p>Harley says you should fill one (ENQ) out every 6 mos or so because everyone's ENs change, ESP after going thru a traumatic event such as an A.<p>Jo

Hurrian Hoosier,
I can remember a time when I was still in the fog and acting just like your wife. I guess I do have to be lucky that my H and I are in recovery now and not still stuck in the fog. i guess I am looking for a way to get past recovery and on to living happily with the man of my dreams.<p>Elad,
Thanks for your admiration, although being a FWS I am not sure that I deserve it, but then again I could still be in the fog.<p>For those of you that have posted here that have not made it into recovery yet I hope you find the happiness that we all are after.

Thanks Jo that advice was a little more subtle than what I had originally thought. The EN's questionaires have been laying on my desk at home for some time now, mine is filled his is not. I think I might just have to work on that tonight.

Definitely Unsure,<p>Hope you don't mind me adding this.<p>IMHO, I think the more the WS initiates, on their own steam, actions such as counseling appointments, ENQ exchange, marriage workshops/seminars, MB Reading ... etc. the more the BS sees they are sincere in their efforts to recover. <p>I believe that, in of itself, is a Love Bank deposit. At least it would be for me. <p>Jo

I go with what onwardandup said, he needs admiration. Thank him for what he does do right. Just don't be fake and don't over do it. But be regular and sincere.

Hi DU,<p>My wife's affairs were all with OM that made less than me. (I was in the military at the time and I out ranked all of them...) So money wasn't an "issue" for me. <p>To answer your question, yes. I felt "threatened" that my wife would have another affair for any and all reasons up until the point that I recognized my responsibility in setting the conditions for an affair in our marriage by failing to meet my wife's most important emotional needs. <p>I don't have the overwhelming fear that my wife will have another affair now, but I do realize that our marriage is still vunerable for an affair if we start neglecting each others most important emotional needs.<p>You mention that you and your husband are at the 6 month mark in your recovery.... I'm so glad that your recovery is going well. I'd venture to guess (based on what I experienced), that your husband is still VERY confussed and hurt. ANY difference, how much money the OM makes or doesn't make, the kind of car the OM drives, what TV show the OM likes, the toothpaste the OM uses, etc, is going to be a source of pain for your husband to deal with. <p>It takes time...lots of time, to get over the hurt and pain that we betrayed spouses feel. We need time to re-connect with our feelings and to learn to trust what our spouses tell us. <p>Be patient with your husband. Continue to re-affirm him with your words, but look for specific ways to demonstrate those words with ACTIONS and DEEDS.... <p>Best of luck on your recovery.... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

DS<p>Patience, I am a male BS 19 months into a great recovery and all I can say is hold on and give it time.<p>You're right, E. You guys are hard-wired a bit differently. Very important point to remember.<p>I definitly agree with that. We (men) like to feel that we're kings of our domain ( I don't mean tyrant). And along with that is our need to provide and protect our families. When a wife committs and A it violates everything that we need to make us feel whole as men. It is a very hard reality pill to swallow. I didn't experience the carreer/money isuue in my situation but I can understand how that could be a very hard thing for him to deal with it's another log on the fire if you will.<p>I don't know your situation but I would want to here something like:
You provide me with all the happiness that money could never buy. And to boot you are very sucessfull with your carrer and your earnings. With you I have the best of both worlds and I feel blessed. You are my best friend and you know me better than anyone has or ever will and I love the man and friend that you are. The OM could never compete with everything you have to offer he was an illusion you are reality. <p>It's going to take a while and I wish you both all the luck. Just remember right or wrong the male ego can be very fragile.