I really don't know what to do anymore or how to react to any of this. I'm losing perspectiver. H is still angry, screaming for his half telling me to "go find out about a mortgage" yet he has not seen a lawyer.<p>He expects for me to give just give him half without any lawyers involved because he needs to move on...he doesn't want to live in an apartment anymore. <p>Me? I'm telling him I'm doing nothing without a lawyer. H tells me that I tell the lawyer ANYTHING about the OW, he'll drag me through the mud. He believes that me telling him that I'll have to discuss his infidelity with a lawyer is a threat. He's just so desperate...all about "I" need to move on, "I" need to move out...he hasn't even assessed his finances and what he can afford. <p>I'm just confused. I feel beaten. I feel worn. He tells me that he hates me, that I'm evil...he hates me SO much. <p>I calmly respond and tell him that there's a fine line between love and hate and that the opposite of love isn't hate, sweetie.<p>Okay, some sarcasm. Quite honestly, I'm lost.

He is using emotional abuse to try to control your actions.<p>He thinks that if he is abusive enough and frightens you enough, then you will cave in and let him have his way.<p>It is simply unfair, unwise, and you would be foolish to make any changes in your financial picture without legal advice. And that legal advice includes disclosing the WHOLE picture to your attorney.<p>Get an attorney now T. You need to protect yourself from this man.

I realy don't have an answer, but I would say continue to hold tight. If your H wants a divorce so bad and his fair share of the maritial assets then he should take action himself.<p>I will refuse to be the one who files for divorce in my situation. My WW has suggested all the things she deserves if we get a D (kind of over the top). I have calmly told her that I am all for a fair distibution, but she will have to be the one to take action. <p>I'm not sure about everything in your situation, but if he has been and continues to be verbally abusive, I would reduce contact. By this I mean that you have the choice not to listen to that kind of stuff. What I realy mean is to let him know that if wants to calmly discuss things OK, otherwise you will wait till he can bring himself to the point where he communicate in an acceptable manner.<p>By the way, I thought the sarcasm was a fine response and funny. I'm sorry my advice may not help much, but it is just my $.02 on what I would do.<p>Just one final thought...my WW has seen an attorney and I subsequently went to see one also. I did disclose everything about the situation to my attorney, but only so he understodd all of the factors. My reason for going was not to initiate anything but just to understand my position and get advice about what to do and not do, so as to not hurt my position if we end up with a D or ruin any chance for reconciliation.<p>[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: onwardandup ]</p>

My friend tells me not to feed the fire. Let it rage until it burns out. It sounds like you are in Plan B. Eventually anger like other strong emotions will fade. You should avoid any contact with him a get a person to take messages to and from. <p>Has there been a legal seperation? Is he providing you with adequate financial support? You may want to talk attourney now and find your legal rights so that he does not in his anger trample on them.<p>Just my opinion. Good luck.

He is button pushing, don't him find the right ones. Protect yourself and get a lawyer ASAP. Research it and find a good one. Document every statement he makes. You may need it later, or at least for your own sanity. He is miserable himself and wants everyone else to be also. <p>If he want to play games then let him. You know him better than anyone else. If you stay level headed you can probably anticipate his next move. Do not drive yourself crazy doing it, just use it to your advantage for your own protection.<p>Take care of you, you are worth it!!!<p>p.s. Protect your money!! If you need to find a way to hide an emergency amount in case you need it later.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Terrified:
[QB]
H tells me that I tell the lawyer ANYTHING about the OW, he'll drag me through the mud. He believes that me telling him that I'll have to discuss his infidelity with a lawyer is a threat.<hr></blockquote>
T,
This is so like when he was demanding that you tell no one of his actions back before Thanksgiving. You need to contiunue to be strong. To me, it is like he is is a 10 year old where the only thing that matters in their world is them. IMHO, he is is sick -- he is not bad, he is a sick person --
This is not at all logical. He tells you that it is over - you are going to have seperate lifes, yet he still makes demands to control you!? And his threat is that he'll drag you through the mud --which to me means will drag this out even more & it is he that wants this quick settlement -- well I should say he wants the money. He evidently does not want a D, just the money -- <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I'm just confused. I feel beaten. I feel worn. He tells me that he hates me, that I'm evil...he hates me SO much. <p>I calmly respond and tell him that there's a fine line between love and hate and that the opposite of love isn't hate, sweetie. <hr></blockquote><p>Very Good! I like that!!<p>I continue to see nothing but a self-centered, egotistical guy who is confused and angry and resentful for how "he feels" you treated him with indifference & took him for granted.
The way you have expressed your love for this guy, when he has already drug you through the mud, to me makes it hard to understand that his accuzations about how you treated him are objective & accurate--? Where you really that bad?
Please do not let him influence your thoughts on that to the point that you start internalising what I feel may be some altering of the historical facts,from his point of view, to make him feel justified in what he has done.<p>Can you think of concrete examples of things that you did that would counter his "perspective?" <p>Frankly, in all the pain & resentment I have sufferred from my DW's betrayal, I have forgotten some of the good things she had done. I know that he betrayed you, but maybe he did harber these feelings that you did not pay enough attention to him. It does not matter what the facts were, perhaps he has such a "self" perspective that in his mind or way of thinking of things, he demands a lot more attention and admiration that most people.

My point is that there are always mis-understanding & mis-communications about expectations & "mutual" needs. He seems mostly concerned about "his" needs & he may not be capable right now of even thinking about another person's needs.
His basic posture to me, seems like he is mostly interested in handing out the pain & is not really asking for your sincere apology and to seek a reasonable reconcilation -- it seems it is all about him & his hurt feelings for the past that forced him into this A. Nothing justifies the A -- this one is on him -- NOT YOU!!
I am no professional counselor & no expert on personality traits, but it sounds like he has some serious narcsstic tendencies (as I feel my DW has) & I understand that with this, there is such a strong orientaion to self interest & self pride and a basic sense that they are not at fault when there are problems -- this makes recovery extremely difficult. I understand if a person has this kind of tendency, complete & true recovery is almost impossible. If he is not seeking some kind of professional help, I believe he will not change -- this kind of thing is dangerous two edge sward -- with this condition, the person does not internalize responsibilities for misconduct (always someone elses fault!), so they feel no need to seek help -- it's not their problem, it's the other person's problem. W/O a change in this basic self interest, sorry, until this is brought under control, nothing different is going to happen - [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Utlimately you cannot control what he does of course -- only yourself!<p>What can you do? I recommend that you detach, detach with love, as they say, but this relationship does not sound healthy for you or your daughter. The Dobson book might give you some direction. <p>Perhaps you have a discussion whereby you sincerely aplogise that he had these impressions of how you treated him, but that regardless of the past, you want to make amends -- to move forward, to "heal" the past, but to reconsile -- the two of you have work "togeather" to heal the past, but with this togeather effort, it is possible to move forward. If he is not willing to work through these feeling he had towards you -- abanding him and all? -- What is the purpose of drudging these things up -- to have you feel sorry for him and make amends -- OK, you can do that, but he does not seem at all interested in that approach, right?
I have a sense you have attempted this kind of diologue and he wants nothing to do with it - he flips into his version of the past and how bad you treated him. With this understanding of his attitude which does not seem to be changing, this discussion would seem of no use -- Perhaps it is best to contiune to cirlce the wagans and protect what is in YOUR best Interest.<p>Perhaps it would make sense for you to make some kind of list of examples whereby you showed him love, affection & respect. Otherwise, I am fearful he has some kind of power over you, where you start believing his accusations against you -?? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If it were me, and the way he treats you & the pain this causes you, perhaps it would be worth it to give him 60% and move on. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>But regardless of your decision, it seems to me that you & he's relationship is way beyond a stage where he dictates to you what you tell an attorney?! This to me, goes well beyond reasonable boundaries.
Just my 2 cents worth!
Hope you find peace soon & you are in my prayers!
HH<p>[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

Sorry, hit wrong button!<p>[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

Terri,
I don't understand how he is the one who had the affair, yet threatens to drag you through the mud. It is HIS mud. He had an affair. He left his wife and child. Those are facts.<p>See a lawyer. Tell the lawyer everything. It's their job to legally protect their client. You can find out what determines slander, and if your H is or does cross the line. With his shoving you around a couple weeks ago, continuing to threaten you, DOCUMENT, he's a likely candidate for a restraining order.<p>He doesn't have the right to do this to you, no matter how lousy a wife he thinks you were before he started doing the OW.<p>TAKE CARE OF YOU.

T- He again sounds like a spoiled brat- an overgrown one! distance until he starts to show some respect... teach him he will not be able to abuse you... it works!<p>H

Thank-you to all for your helpful replies. I haven't felt this down in such a very long time. I feel once again that I am going through the motions of living and breathing but not really there. So excuse my responses that may seem 'unspirited'. <p>Lex, Hugs...I called a lawyer this morning. I have procrastinated long enough. <p>Onward, Yes, I agree with you. I decided long ago that it was up to my H to take legal action. Let him go to a lawyer and experience reality.<p>Dreamland, No legal separation is currently in place. Therefore, assets have not been divided.<p>SFMC, Yes, he is button pushing. <p>HH, You're amazing, you know that? All I can say is I do need to take the tough love approach. No ifs, ands or buts!!! Lot of Love<p>Lor, Well, he said he'd want to prove how I'm emotionally unstable in all my relationships so how could I be proven to be stable in this one??
He'd bring up my father (I grew up with a physically abusive father and do not talk to him). He brings that up to me all the time now but it's strange...that's how we became close 19 years ago. He consoled me when I needed someone. Now, I'm a terrible person because I do not have a relationship with my father. That's just one thing. Then of course, let's not forget my anxiety attacks. <p>Honey, Hope you're well...distance is my only option!!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Terrified:
<strong>
Lor, Well, he said he'd want to prove how I'm emotionally unstable in all my relationships so how could I be proven to be stable in this one??
He'd bring up my father (I grew up with a physically abusive father and do not talk to him). He brings that up to me all the time now but it's strange...that's how we became close 19 years ago. He consoled me when I needed someone. Now, I'm a terrible person because I do not have a relationship with my father. That's just one thing. Then of course, let's not forget my anxiety attacks.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Terri,
I wish I was an expert & could offer simple solutions. I know that I am sometimes too flexible & accomidating to meet other peoples needs -- ignore my own to big extent. You are very right in establishing boundaries & to not have a relationship with anyone that has or is abusive towards you. Your Hubby seems to have no concience in the buttons he tries to push. Please try to keep this Hog Wash as his problems, agin he is sick & that is with a captial S -- doesn't mean he won't get better, but you know you can't take responsibility for his cure, but as I believe you know, you do have to take specific steps to protect yourself from his ongoing wrath od distruction! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
My DW I believe was abused -- I know emotionally at least -- perhaps in other ways as well.
As I am sure you have read & understand, intellectually, you did not deserve the abuse, it was not because of you!
I know with our struggles it would be natural to assume that we are being punished for a reason, that we somehow asked for this abuse or bad treatment & misfortune -- This is not your fault, please do not internalize this as your fault. It is a burden thrust upon us & we will be stronger!
HUGS!
HH

T... Oh my!!! I want to help you with your plan. I don't have time right now to type things out (we have to go on a 'diaper run' for the twins - great sale at Shoppers this week! LOL).<p>I will be home tonight. I will call you. It may not be until closer to 11pm though, k?<p>((((((((( Terrified ))))))))))<p>I'm going to help you get back on track, as best I can, k? I'm thinking that what you need most for the time being is someone to listen to you. Someone who understands. I'll be that person for you if you want. Irregardless... I'll STILL call you tonight. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Luv ya!
Karen

Grrr.....need I remind you how very mad your H makes me? He's such a bully.<p>I'm glad you talked to a lawyer. It's all about protecting you and your daughter now. Don't worry about your H....he seems so sure of being able to take care of himself.<p>I can't believe he has the nerve to say he'd drag you through the mud if you mentioned anything about HIS A to YOUR lawyer. Man....if that isn't SHAME talking, I don't know what it is.<p>He's still in his "All About Me" phase. Acting like a spoiled rotten brat. Sorry to say.....I'm not sure your H wants to be any other way.<p>Stick to your guns......apply the TOUGH LOVE so thick that he won't know what hit him. He's not acknowledging anything unless it suits HIS purposes and we ALL know that you've made some TREMENDOUS changes for YOU and for the better.<p>(((((Terrified)))))

Terri,
Everything he says bad about you, still reflects on him. If he thought you were so unstable, why did he marry you? If a father-child relationship is so important to him, why did he leave his child...with someone he thinks is unstable?<p>His mud-slinging, his darts at you aren't reality. Aren't even particularly sensible or logical.<p>Do you see how wrong-headed his version is?<p>I only know you from your posts, and certainly, this is a terrible time for you...but you don't seem AT ALL unstable. Conflicted about your marriage & H, fearful of your future, yes. But unstable? No.<p>Don't receive his insults as if they are truth.

Dear T,<p>Time to say no more than just: "OK" as sweetly as you can. <p>Example:<p>WS: I want to do a quicky D without the lawyers. <p>BS: Ok (no clarification or explanation required)

WS: I want 1/2 the household assests. <p>BS: OK. <p>WS: I want to see my daughter 5 days a week at
any hour of the day. <p>BS: OK.<p>WS: I want...I want...I want...I want...<p>BS: Ok...Ok...Ok...Ok..<p>Then when he says you agreed and did not deliver, remind him that he can not control you any more than you can control him. OK? <p>The reason why I say to just say ok, is because he is not listening to you anyway. So all your agruments and lines of reasoning are going in the sewer of his A mind. You are basically throwing pearls of wisdom before......oink!<p>L. (been there....dun that!)

Hello everyone and thanks again...you're there when I am at my lowest. And I have never been lower.<p>
HH, you're very perceptive, as is usual. And of course, you're right on the mark with internalizing what my H is saying about me. I do believe most of what he says and I have to stop. Hugs back!<p>Topie, Oh I do really need to talk. How about I call you at 10:45, okay? Hugs to you and thanks!<p>Miss Priss, Thanks for checking in and your words of encouragement. <p>Lor, Is it normal to feel "unstable" when they tell you time and time again??? <p>O, Good to hear from you too. And I like your responses. You really have been there and dun that??<p>Love you all!

Okay T... I'll talk to you tonight? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I'll make sure no one else is on the phone.<p>Karen

Yep.<p>L.

Orchid has some good advice. Your H is trying to cross over into your emotional boundaries. He is probably not feeling the best about himself (especially since he does not want you to disclose the affair), and wants to bring you down with him. He has anger in him, wants to take it out on you, just to get a reaction to feed his ammunition so he can "justify" what he is doing. You are responsible for your reactions, not him, you may have to bite your tongue a few times. My WH did this right after left, I got to the point where I would just let him vent, he was so predictable, that I actually laughed about it to my friends, who wants to walk around being angry all the time?

T - <p>My XH does the same thing to me. And you begin to believe them after awhile because you get so used to hearing it. However, the things they say are not normal to others.<p>I would document and tape phone conversations and even tape in person conversations. All this will help you in court if you end up there. And believe me your WH will bully you with the settlement too - don't fall for it.<p>I just recommended the book The Twelve Steps for the Co-dependent by Melody Beattie - it really helps you get strength to put the focus back on you. It may as all of Melody Beattie's books like Co-dependent No More - may help too.<p>And just an aside - the Ok answer that Orchid suggested really works - tried it on my XH just today and he had no response.<p>K