And so yesterday and today WH and I have talked. I have told him that I want him home, but I don't want him to fail again. I need him to have a repentant heart, and when he does all of the accountability issues that we had in the past will take care of themselves. Forgiving himself will be hard, but he can 1) forgive himself, move home and do the right thing; or 2) if he doesn't forgive himself it will destroy him.
WH asked me how I could still possibly want him back, and I replied that I love him, and that it is through a higher power (God) that I'm able to do this.
I would think he might just jump at the chance to come home!!!!
But he says he still isn't ready????Someone knock me on the head because I still don't get it.
I told him yesterday that he had just about used up all of his free chances...the door home is still open, but I do have a limit. I also mentioned the D word. That got his attention, except he probably doesn't think I'll really do it!
We're not in plan A or B ????? He has moved out, but we still talk friendly on the phone.
I'm confused about what to do next.
I do have an appointment with an attorney tomorrow!
KK....is this really my life i'm living?????
--------------------

Hi,<p>You say that you're in neither Plan A or B... but you talk friendly on the phone... so I would suggest you develop a plan that works for you... sounds like you're kinda doing Plan A already... maybe just need to crank it up a notch!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>When you really are starting to lose your love, definitely Plan B time... talking to an attorney is fine, even mentioning the D word is fine (IMHO), but keep it all in the context of your broader plan... having a plan is great because you can truly figure out where you're going and know you'll be fine... a very "secure" feeling!

Thanks, J.R.
I'm trying to come up with a plan. In the meanwhile i will be kind and loving to him for as long as I can. I am asking God to lead me to the next step when it is time. WH simply is not ready to commit and come home at this time. It is very sad, but I am starting to see a life without him. He has hurt me so much.
KK

kk,<p>I think the Last Resort Technique from The Divorce Remedy is the best plan for your type of situation. I think of it as a type of Plan A. You've had the talk. He's not walking the walk. So, no more talks. Just pleasant, friendly interactions like you would have with an ex-boyfriend maybe. Always let him be the one to call or come by; maybe a return call after 2 or 3 attempts by him. Always allow him to initiate any physical contact, and you always be the first to terminate it. Be the first to leave if you meet somewhere. Don't always be available; have plans with friends. Always leave him wanting more. Best to read the specifics in the book, though.<p>Always act as though you are moving on with your life. If he asks why you seem different-- "I'm just thinking things through." Stay vague, elusive, slightly mysterious. Doesn't Dr. Dobson talk about a see-saw in Love Must Be Tough? You need to keep at least as much distance from him as he's keeping from you, plus a little baby step more away from him than he is from you.<p>[ May 19, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Thank Conqueror!
That sounds right for where I am right now. Do you happen to know who the author is. Have you tried any of these things?
I will see if my library has this tomorrow.
Best wishes to you.
KK

kk2002 <p>A good question to ask might be 'Why should to DO SOMETHING already?' What driving force is there. If you have been sorta plan a'ing him, then he has the best of both world. What would rock that world of his? I think that this is the question you need to be asking.<p>Do you think that Plan B will shock him?

Zorweb,
Yes, I do believe plan b would shock him, I need to read up on it. I don't completely understand the plan. Also, I have 3 school-aged kids who will be affected also.
Difficult situation, but God will see us through.
Thanks for the response.
God bless.
KK

Michele Weiner-Davis is the author's name. www.divorcebusting.com<p>I think it was within a month after I started LRT that my H was more pursuing of me and started doing some things differently. I wrote about it either here or on Recovery in a thread titled Modified Plan A or something close to that.

kk- My H was ALSO totally on the fence despite my insisting he move out after 10 days post-d-day because he refused to end his A once and for all. In his case- OW was an aggressive single coworker who was putting intense pressure on him to divorce me and be with her. She was very unbalanced so that in turn caused HIM to be very unbalanced in his thinking. Is your H in what he thinks is a romantic in-love type A? If so you need to summon up ALL your patience and be prepared to wait this out. Also definitely read Love Must be Tough and Divorce Rememdy- those are excellent books for you right now. I had to consult an attorney because my H often insisted on divorce. He too could NOT forgive himself and said that our marriage was hopeless. He had quit going to church with us and blamed me for everything. Refused counseling after going just a few times. It was not until he actually filed for D on me that he seemed to 'wake up!." I found out later that OW had been telling him constantly that I would never be able to forgive him and that I would take him back for a few months and then throw him out again. Etc Etc! I am sharing this with you so that you might realize that your H is definitely NOT in his right mind now. You have to be the 'grown-up here' as my mom told me. Hang in there!Patience pays in situations like this. Eventually H was able to end his A once and for all with the help of a counselor who helped him to get out of the 'cycle he felt trapped in." lifeismessy

Lifeismessy,
Although WH has not specifically stated that OW is putting this pressure on him, I feel this is the case. So, thank you for those words, I have Love must be tough, and I am going to purchase the Divorce Remedy. Yes, I am prepared to be patient.
He filed for divorce on 4-2001, and never told me, I had to find out accidentally. I think it was this way of showing Ow that he meant business, but never followed through with it. Isn't that interesting.
More later.
Let's hang in there.
KK

KK --<p> When I read your post I was struck by the silimarity of our situations -- long term marriage, three small kids, WH who promises change but repeatedly goes back to OW. I have been at this longer than you. D-day was back in late August, so I've had many more opportunities to witness my H's backsliding. For me things have definately hit the end game. H is still trying to convince me that THIS time he will end contact and work on the marriage, but I don't see any difference between this time and last several times.<p> I am going to speak with Steve Harley on Thursday (we began counseling with him recently) and get his take on where I go from here. My plan is to leave and spend at least the summer away with my parents. If you'd like I would be happy to pass along Steve's advice. My situation is clearly more pessimistic than your own given the fact that we have been at this for 9 months (!?!) but perhaps Steve's advice would also be helpful for you.<p> Try not to let it get to you. If there's one thing I've learned it's that the only person you can control in this world is yourself. Being the grown up isn't fun or easy, but when it's all said and done you'll be able to look back with respect and even admiration at the way you've behaved. That's worth alot!

>>> I think it was this way of showing Ow that he meant business, but never followed through with it. Isn't that interesting. <<<<p>I can relate. WW has never talked about Dv, but she did come close to moving out at least once. At the time, I'm certain OM had been pressuring her to "decide quickly" about what she wanted, and in my talk with him, had pointed out that WW's refusal to move out all along had to say something.<p>Well, she ended up backing out... leading to a period where I'm sure her and OM were on bad terms.<p>This uncertainty they have will work against the A... you, having some understanding about what's going on, can see through this and make decisions about what's best for you, thankfully.

Thanks Sticking w/it and J.R.
Yes S.W.I., I'd love to hear what Steve Harley has to say to you, our situations are very similar. My spouse has NO job right now, and my 3 kids and I are trying to live on my teacher salary. I am working an extra job this summer to help out. We will probably have to move to an apartment if WH is still wavering and undecisive about what to do.<p>J.R. I am sorry for your situation. I do believe that WH and OW's A has had a wrench thrown in it because of his uncertainty. Right now WH is living with his parents, who are trying to talk some sense into him about doing the right thing. So, I think him moving in with them (which is about100 miles from ow's house) will not be good for their relationship.
Thanks for your reply. I'll keep everyone posted.<p>BTW, I decided to not capitalize ow anymore!!!
KK

KK --<p> I spoke with Steve Harley this morning and I wanted to pass along his thoughts. First, let me say that my situation is perhaps more grave than your own. During the past 9 months I have taken H back with promises of no contact with the OW at least 8 times. So, what seems like the right decision for me may not be right for you.<p> Steve started by talking about the process of addiction. He pointed out that my H's pattern of "seeing the light" and promising no contact and then returning to this woman is consistent with the behaviour of an addict. When he makes the promises he is like a drunk who wakes up in the gutter and can see the terrible mess he's made. He can commit to no contact because he isn't feeling any withdrawl at the time. However, after awhile the withdrawl symptoms appear and suddenly everything looks different. It's at that point that he begins nit-picking our relationship and glorifying the OW -- and he returns to her.<p> In my case (and undoubtedly yours as well) the OW really is no prize. Steve (and our previous MC) sayes that based on conversations with my H the OW's appeal is basically that she is very sexually available. I have seen and unfortunatley spoken with her and she is incredibly immature and even plain looking. Steve sayes that H knows that the relationship with OW doesn't really have any legs, and hence the reason he keeps coming back to me.<p> My H is supposedly developing a "plan" for getting this woman out of his life. Steve at first suggested that if I could stay in Dallas, instead of going to my parents it might be better. But after we talked about the number of rounds H and I have already gone, he advised me to go ahead with my plans. He also suggested that I tell H in no uncertain terms that I want our marriage and that I have always wanted our marriage, BUT . . . H's behaviour over the past months has been deeply painful for me. So, right now I need to make choices that protect me from further injury from his actions. My decision to stay with my parents is not indicative of disinterest in saving our marriage, it is to protect myself and what remains of my love for him while he gets his act together. Steve also suggested that I not get into H's "plans" with him, but tell him that he knows what he needs to do and he should do it; I can't help him because of the way his actions have affected me. When and if he demonstates that he can truly end the A, we can talk about the next step. In the meantime he can talk to Steve.<p> We have been in MC since this whole thing started and it hasn't done alot of good. If you are considering some kind of counseling I would definately encourage you to try the Harleys. Our other MCs were either baffled by my H's waffling or flat out disgusted. Maybe as a result of dealing with so many WSs, Steve seemed undaunted by H, and said all of his behaviour is perfectly consistent with an addictive A.<p> Also, if you are considering a tough love, plan B approach, you may want to be perfectly clear with your H that you are not giving up on the marriage. Steve said that men like this often want to make someone else the guilty party: "I was willing to try but my wife kicked me out". So you need to keep reiterating that you want the marriage, but you need to protect your love for him until he is ready to return to you.<p> I don't know how helpful this was for you. Perhaps there is at least some comfort in knowing that other people are in the same boat. Time is certainly on the side of BSs, the trick is saving enough decent feeling for the WSs that you still want them once the A ends.