I have suffered through my H's A's over many years. A woman in my bed while I was having our first child, pursuits of my best friends, a prostitute, a myriad of other types of inappropriate questionable situations that I have no clear answers for yet. I may have only seen the tip of the iceberg.<p>And now there was this ((({{{{{EA}}}}})))!!!!!!<p>The focus always seems to be on how much more horrible it is if they have sex or any thing at all physical. As if then and only then is it REALLY a problem. That is because then and only then is there something more tangible and solid to point a finger at, to blow the whistle for.<p>I can say this, from my own experience as a veteran BS. H's EA and other foggy, questionable, inappropriate friendships and betrayals have just about ended our marriage.<p>If they had sex it would be cut and dried. I'm not saying it's better that way, but for me it was much easier to get past because I knew exactly what I was dealing with. H knew exactly what he had done and there was no arguing about whether it was OK or not. Crossing the PA/SA line
made things crystal clear for all involved.<p>I am very disappointed that there is not more focus on DAMAGE that an EA does to the marriage and the BS's heart. All the literature I have come across has been focused on affairs that are physical in nature, with a little paragraph here and there hinting that EA's are significant.<p>Here is what it felt like to ME.
PA,SA---like H had developed cancer that was easily diagnosed and treated.<p>EA---like H had developed cancer that was difficult to diagnose, and very possibly terminal.
Dark, mysterious, subtle, elusive.<p>Gotta run for a minute.

I have to agree that both are bad but I would have been almost happier if it had been a PA - it wouldn't have involved the feelings of "she's my soul mate" "we just have so much in common" it would have been SEX and over (in most cases). My H is still lost in the fog of his EA - I found out and called her H and at which point she ended all contact with my H, Great.. right? Well now I'm not sure...he is still lost in the world of what if's? The A didn&#8217;t have time to play itself out and he is still left wondering what could have been? At times I almost want to tell him to go back to her (she doesn&#8217;t want him) and find out once and for all that way we can go on with our lives either way. But we are stuck in the world of "he doesn&#8217;t know what he wants" he loves me but he isn&#8217;t in love with me - He's confused, just wants to be happy again...blah,blah,blah... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

My H had an EA with a old HS friend. There were lunches, emails, phone calls and kissing. He tells me it's "where he was" and why this happened. When she contacted him in December, he kept her email a secret. A couple of days later he answered the email and asked her to lunch. They met later that week, he says he thought that would be it a couple of old friends getting caught up on their lives. Then she wrote again to him the next week asking him to lunch, he said "yes" and saw her again, still saying it was 2 friends catching up. This time she hugged him and he hugged her back. A few weeks later, another email from her about going to lunch again. He went, of course, this time the lunch ended with a kiss. He tried to break it off but, she was relentless and kept calling and emailing him until he saw her again. This lunch ended with a kiss, then a email rose was sent by my H to her. Then he started calling her. He says he liked the attention but, only considered her a friend. A friend that he kissed when ever he saw her. He works out of our house and she works out of hers so, of course there is no one home to stop the phone calls or emails. She would send an email, then call to see if he got them. They would talk on the phone and she would follow it up with an email. She professed her love for him but, he still says they were only friends. <p>I don't know what to believe, he says he never said those things to her but, he liked hearing them. He liked the flattery and attention, he liked feeling that he was an interesting person. I can't help feeling there is more to this than what he is saying. He tells me he was not attracted to her, that he wasn't falling for her, that he couldn't help it if she was falling for him. He thought about her from time to time and that's why he would call her or email her. <p>Now I am just suppose to be glad that he didn't leave, that he is still at home and want to work things out. What about my hurt and pain? It seems it's all on the BS to "get through the pain", to stop bringing up how bad we hurt, to stop brining up the A. <p>I am having a really bad day, the last couple have been terrible. I am ready to walk out and not look back.

rdvpmm,<p>If my H walked up to me and said right this minute, "yes we had a PA/SA, I would be so relieved!!! Then I would have something to sink my teeth into, a clear view, it would be such a relief.<p>As it stands, their EA was viewed as "not really cheating". It's like an unconsumated love affair, like the cr@p we see in the movies. She continued to dangle the carrot even though he told her "we can never have sex". (he knew she was coming on to him, flirting, eye contact, brushing against him, he said it was veerrrryy subtle. Can you imagine how titilating that would be? (look but don't touch, I'm here but you can't really have me?) Gross. Finally he asked to kiss her and she got mad!!!!! This is a JEZEBEL.<p>I am sure H will always be angry at me for intervening, I'll probably always be viewed as the jealous wife who overeacted and spoiled their game.<p>One time we were discussing calmnly what had happened. He made a statement about their friendship "well we sure as hell can't have what we had", (because I got in the way). Also, "why would I want to keep chasing after something I can never have?". (HER) In other words he can't have her because of me, I won't let them remain "just good friends". I'm sure they view this as being unreasonable or difficult. <p>Once I quietly told him he could divorce me and then he could have her and they could do what they wanted. I was serious, I was sick and tired of him acting like I have him trapped or something. He said "No she would never want to break up a marriage". Of course that made her look like an innocent, pure, martyr who was willing to protect us all from marital destruction. She had already destroyed it. I think she will always remain on a pedestal in his eyes. To this day she maintains that there was nothing between them, he says he knows she's lying. YAAAYYYY!!!LB, LB, LB!!!<p>My H thinks like Scarlett O'Hara, I can tell you that I am no Melanie Wilkes.<p>Mack,<p> I feel very bad for you. The uncertainty of an EA and the minimizing of it's impact on the BS is extremely painful. I hope someone with more experience than I have can help you. I am in such a bad place today that I may make things worse for you.<p>If you start your own thread and ask the "oldtimers" to come in, you will get some great support. Your H had or is having an EA and a PA because of the kissing. Your pain is 100% valid and you are not overeacting. Good luck and keep posting, it can be your lifeline.<p>Replaced<p>[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: Replaced ]</p>

Okay, I just got into the whole "I wish it would have been X instead of Y with my XH" and the truth is... the grass is always greener. From my perspective -- they were all ONS, PA's -- I got tossed aside and all too easily replaced by common gutter wh**res. He prefered quickie thrill-rides to his wife. It's pretty dehumanizing -- felt more like hamburger than a wife. He doesn't get that. The way I see it, my heart and home and family were broken for "nothing". <p>Snow

Wow! "She would never want to break up a marriage" is exactly what my H said about his EA partner! Both now, and several years ago when it happened for the 1st time (was the same person). Their EA got cut short this time because she was "relieved" from her job with him. His EA is still very much up on the pedestal and she even tried to blame me for her "relieval of duty". It was easier for me to find out information about the relationship when they worked together-I didn't want her fired. Now to get together they have to sneak, but not really because he freely admits that he will not give up the friendship adn will call or e-mail or whatever when ever he wants.<p>He, too, says it is not cheating because there is no sex. I think either EA or PA they are both horrible horrible things. I am fighting depression, and am trying to get into a counselor. Meanwhile, he can't understand why I am still so upset. I LB'd big time Saturday night, and oh well. Maybe its time for Plan B.<p>You may also want to check out infidelity.com, they have a lot of EA info there, you just have to look for it. I also got a lot of info from looking up EA on the search engines. You have to weed through...<p>Good luck!

Replaced -
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote>If my H walked up to me and said right this minute, "yes we had a PA/SA, I would be so relieved!!! Then I would have something to sink my teeth into, a clear view, it would be such a relief. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote><p>You hit the nail on the head - I couldnt agree more!<p>My H has no idea what he wants right now and all I really want at this point is a clear cut answer - Either he wants to work on our Marriage and try and make it work or he wants out! I Love him and want it to work but if he wants out I can deal with it but what I'm tired of is the "I dont know but when I figure it out you will be the first to know" answer - What a bunch of crap! The Fog has taken over his brain and I wish the fog would move out and give me my H back

When I thought my H's affair with my ex best friend was EA only (which is what I was told, lied to for 6 years) I was devastated. We were still separated for 9 mos and it destroyed me. I used to wish Dr. Phil would do a show on how destructive they are. My counselor said an affair is an affair, and an ea doesn't lessen the pain. My girlfriend's H had 4 PA's and she told me "I could never be in your place, it would have killed me if my H had loved any of them."<p>Well, come to find out 6 years later that it was both, EA for many months and finally PA. The book Torn Asunder does an excellent job of explaining EA's, the whole last chapter is devoted to the subject. It also explains why affairs that start as emotional only almost always turn physical eventually.<p>I would suggest you read it if you haven't. EAs destroy many lives, and too many people view them as 'innocent.' But they take the spouse's focus off of the marriage and onto another person, which is exactly what an affair is.<p>I wish you healing and peace

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mack:
<strong>What about my hurt and pain? It seems it's all on the BS to "get through the pain", to stop bringing up how bad we hurt, to stop brining up the A. <p>I am having a really bad day, the last couple have been terrible. I am ready to walk out and not look back.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hi Mack,
First off, I would suggest starting a thread with your post so you can get more responses. Secondly, I would suggest reading as much as you can so that you can learn what your WS' emotional needs are and start executing Plan A. It sounds like he was attracted by the admiration he received from this woman. Have you considered counseling?

Replaced,<p>I found this site a year ago. I never thought that a EA would be worse then a PA. I now now it is. Long story short. My W had an EA a year ago, and for the most part still is. <p>I found our about it because I hit the re-dial button on the phone and got OM. I found out that 116 calls were made to him in a month and a half. 116 PHONE CALLS. W works with him as well. I asked he she had feelings for him and she said "Yes". After this went down, it was like an addiction to calling him. She once took change from the kid's bank and went to a pay phone to call him. <p>It's bad news.<p>Dino

I was reading a research study by Dr. Debbie Layton-Tholl on the topic of extramarital affairs. In her study of over 3800 respondents, over 90% reported that the affair is based on emotional needs not being met within the marital relationship, and not sexually motivated reasons. It appears that the allure of extramarital affairs is not new sexual experiences, nor are they due to any biological inability to remain monogamous, but rather what drives many individuals to become involved in extramarital affairs is a lack of emotional fulfillment within the existing relationship.<p>I guess my point is that not enough attention is paid to the emotional affair component of PAs.