This is probably getting way to petty, but some things have come up that I wanted to throw out to see if I could gain different perspectives – Thanks in advance for your patience here!<p>Now I am obviously biased to my own perspective, but I honestly try to be objective in my descriptions.<p>A couple years ago I developed some tendentious in my elbow (tennis elbow, if you will) and I got a small brace to help. Fortunately this has not been a problem in last couple years, and my DW has used this brace on occasion last summer for when she would play golf. I am not the most tidy person, although I do not leave my cloths on the floor & wipe the water off the sink & shower walls & curtain after my use in the morning, to comply with my DW’s wishes. This is a little anaul for my liking, but this reasonable, as it cuts down on the mildew! Happens to be something her family does and we get reminded to do this on occasion when we visit. My DW is definitely the organizer and gets very irritated if anything is left out – she is always sweeping things off the desk & counters & storing & organizing – this is a good thing & I don’t mind in most cases. The problem occurs is when I am looking for something & ask for her assistance – I am a slow learner, but I have learned that even though she is the keeper of things & has a good sense of where she stores things, she gets irritated when I ask her for help in retrieving something. <p>My elbow has flared up again and we play golf on Tuesday evening. I knew this brace was probably in our linen closet, but felt that she could easily put her hands. I said to her that I did not need this right away, but wanted it for tomorrow evening and wanted to ask her if she had an idea where it is, and that it is not a right away, panic kind of search. She replied that it was probably in a particular container. I said that I have seen this brace lot long ago , but that it was not in the container. She acted as if she did not know what brace I was talking about and she said she had no idea. I proceeded to describe it & I said to her that she had been using it since I did. Well, she got irritated & told me to look in this container. I looked & reported back to her that it was not in there. She kind of stomped out of the room and down the hall & within 3o seconds, she had the brace. It was in an open tub container tucked away under a lower shelf. Her typical response for when I ask her for some help like this is: “You have to look for things!” I told her , “Thank You,” but she is like pouting and said in a very disrespectful angry kind of tone, “you are so upsetting to me at times” Well, I decided I don’t have to be the only one to hear this rage & I replied, “well, you upset me at times as well!”
Now, I am reminded that perhaps this falls into the “domestic help” category in that she gets this attitude and has said things at times in a sense, that she is not my mother (more conations than actual words), like I need to learn to be more self-reliant (which may be true!). I get the sense that although she continually asks me to do things (like the laundry, sweep off the deck, take out the garbage, empty the dish washer, help with vacuuming, clean the toilets, ECT.), that I am not allowed to ask her for anything – like it is a big imposition to her and is a treat to her freedom or something? <p>Last week for example, she mentions that the washing machine is off balance & if I could stick a piece of wood under the one corner. I say sure, why don’t I tilt it up now & you can slip it under. She walks away saying, "No I am not doing that!" Not screaming, but in very firm tone. This week as I am about to do a load of laundry & I wrestle with tilting the washing machine & with my foot pushing this piece of wood under it. I get this sense that it is important to her to be “IN Charge” – Like she is the General & I am the Luteniant and there is a specific chain of command and it is one way, her down to me. This dynamic is not as bad as it once was actually, but as more time elapses from D/Day and our basic lack of any formal recovery process, from her point at least, I see more & more where these old patterns are coming back.<p>A bit later this morning, I tried to bring some lightness into our conversation and show that I was not upset, but she continues to shun me. This offered me the opportunity to leave this morning without any good-byes. I felt that if I offered my typical, warm, Good Bye with a peck on the cheek(not always, but many times), it would put me in the “weak, subservient” role and I fall into an old pattern of let’s make sure that she is happy, kind of approach. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>What am I missing here – am I not presenting my request in right fashion? Or am I totally off base in an expectation that I can ask her to do something like this as a favor to me? I can use some insights here & suggestions. <p>I am all for the cooperative spirit of things & even though she typically works 30 hours or so a week, I do not mind helping with domestic chores & I do not set any expectations for her to fix me meals & I help with that, when we do not go out or order in – I understand full well, that she is not a hired maid or chef! She is the best housekeeper!! The house is always emaculent at all times -- she makes the bed every morning. In fact, she busted my bricks when I layed down on the bed Saturday afternoon to talk with her as she was ironing some of her jeans (BTW, I iron my own shirts) because she did not want me to mess it up. She complains that if I lay down anytime other than bedtime (when we pull back the bedspread) that I will ruin the bedspreads (AND I know that they can be relatively EXPENSIVE) and throw pillows and all, even though we typically get replace these things, long before any wear has shown! I will confess, I am not particularly sensitive to this. This is where I guess I would fall into the “slob” kind of definition for a guy thing. If I wanted to get cynical I guess I could ask her if when she entertained her boyfriends, they always pulled back the covers – I would not say this of cousre & this is not a major deal for me, it just came to mind as an example of how particular she is to keep things neat & tidy, which is just fine with me as a general thing. A bit annual for my liking, but not a major annoyance to me – I Like clean!<p>Is it unrealistic for me to ask her for anything? Am I being selfish here and self-centered and lazy? Just trying to seek a fair and equitable lifestyle here – Need some help with ideas in expressing my perspectives, preferences or my rights to thing according to my way & not absolutely, always by her terms. <p>Peace,
HH

hehehe.... sorry for laughing... this struck me as funny, in a "cynical" sort of way.... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Glad you bit your tongue on that thought! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>If I wanted to get cynical I guess I could ask her if when she entertained her boyfriends, they always pulled back the covers <hr></blockquote><p>I'll try to come back later and offer a tidbit or two on your questions.... gotta run [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] .

<small>[ February 06, 2005, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Did I mention that my DW is pre-menopausal? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I know this if often an explanation, however these basic attitude has been around for 30 years.<p>I am often recommended different self help books & the one on preparing for verbal battles sounds especially appropriate, because, with some feedback on this it just occurred to me why she seems to like all of this drama & believe me she does seem to thrive on this stuff! It just occurred to me that she enjoys this because she has learned to generally get the best of me & in her mind at least, “win” in these battles & her declarations & directions for me – It’s like she needs these little battles or conflicts and put downs & different expressions of “control” to give her this feeling of “victory” or superiority or more practically speaking, to validate her sense of self worth. This is definitely a pattern of her family – her dad with her mom on most matters & then her mom back at her dad with home cleanliness issues.
Now she lets me know that I have spent some money on self help books – I believe that since D/day I have bought 5 books. She reminded me that we need to be fugal last week. And that I need to not be spending so much for lunch as an example. This was before she brought home a new set dish ware, to include cups. What we had was fine, but I suppose these are more in tune with the decorator style she wants to use now. I asked how much these cost (very matter of fact & non-judgmental) her answer was, well the cups were two dollars each & the bowls were three. I said I was just curious about the total. She said that she did not know, that they were not all in yet (from her work). This week I asked again & she said around $150.00. I guess that tells you where her priorities are, huh. I said nothing by the way – no criticism or reflection back on her comments to me to be more frugal.
I have become so accustomed to her way of life that maybe as I heal and strive for a healthier way (for me) I am beginning to see things differently. Sometimes we do not understand or feel the pain that we surpress until we eliminate the pain & then realize we had it all along and just did not realize it!<p> Faith1
Thanks for checking in – I meant the cynical comment to be a point of comic relief! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] - she does come off with a mighty, self-righteous attitude with these things, like the bedspread thing for example was as if I am a total slob to even think about laying on the bed. It is a cotton /terry cloth kind of material intended to look like an old fashioned, 30’s or 40’s style – it is not an antique, but is a look alike.<p>hanora
Thanks again for checking in with me. I appreciate hearing from you!<p>Today’s little drama – not at all big- just a little upsetting to me. First a brief background.<p>My DW’s one sister has two boys, that her parents have been more like parents with, have some rather dramatic anger, authority / opposition defiant issues. The 15 year old pop his mom (my DW’s Sis) in the nose and the police came and hauled him to juvenile detention – he has some real resentful toward his mom & he relies on my DW’s dad for a lot and they have had a lot of interaction, & he has played more like the dad role in that my DW’s sister has not been married for much of his life & she did not know who his father was until about 4 years ago [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] – I have had a reasonable relationship with him and I am trying to call him once a week or so. He is on the golf team & he started the game when he came out to visit us & so that is something we have to talk about.<p>Remember my DW & I have this no contact rule thing going on during the day or even on our respective ways home. My DW has shown some interest in my keeping contact with her nephew. On my home from my support group meeting last night I call the nephew – did not make contact, second time I called I talked with younger nephew (she was married to his dad for a while) and reported back to me that his brother was asleep. This was twenty minutes or so after I had called & the mom was going to pick him up from golf. When I got home last night my DW was asleep in the recliner & went to bed before I did. I did not tell her about her nephew.<p>This morning I may have been too self-center or not showing the proper communication courtesy if there is such a rule. She was up and ready for work & downstairs when I came down to leave for work. She was copying phone numbers onto a piece of paper. I say that she could store those in her cell phone. She said she’ll get that lesson the next time she is at the mall. I had stored numbers in her phone before and we had talked about this earlier, where I could show her how to do this –why would she not ask me -- [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] I tell her I could show her & I do & she starts to put numbers in the phone – I have to run to work, but I wanted to tell her about her nephew – I replay the events – she asked me, did you talk to him. I said did you not hear my story (I did have some irratation in my tone!). She said, well I was concentrating on the phone & I can NOTdo two things at once – I understand this, I really do! I said, do you want to repeat then, like I want to know if I have her attention now. She said no, that’s all right. I said fine & gave her my peck on the cheek & left.<p>No battles – I just felt like a little small in her world – like no matter what I am doing, when she speaks I normally listen, but I got distinct impression that what I have to say is a low priority. HMMM -- just being petty of late. <p>Just another day in the jungle – I am not stressing though – I am just fine – I’ll focus on me!
Peace,
HH<p>[ May 21, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

just a question that popped in my head... Could she have something that's bothering her - about you or not - that she is stuffing inside? Perhaps it has been leaking out in these sarcastic, snippy, controlling outbursts? You say she's always been this way. So maybe not. I just know I get that way when I'm stuffing something's that bothering me.<p>p.s. I knew you were joking about the bedspread [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . I was ackowledging your joke (buh-dum-bump-csssh), and expressing my regret that I didn't have any constructive advice for you.

<small>[ February 06, 2005, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Hey HH! Always so good to read your posts. <p>As a female person, it has always mystified me about WHY men don't know where anything in thier own homes is kept! And then if they go to "find" something they cannot find it unless it is EXACTLY in the one place they look and out in the open. If they have to move ONE THING they will never find it! <p>And to my shame, I have also snapped at my DH over this very issue because sometimes I feel like he is just trying to get me to get things for him. On the other hand, you have an excellent point when you say that you don't snap at her when she asks for help. <p>That does not justify her rude unhelpful behavior and I think you have a good point when you say that there is a double standard here. I think you are right in setting a boundary.

HH, <p>Does your W know about the recent incident where a man killed his W because she was an 'obessive cleaner'? Just a thought to make us go hmm..... <p>Your W appears to be very picky of you and it is not on fair terms. Your house is your home. Neatness is important but not to the point where you are uncomfortable in your home. <p>JMHO,
L.
ps: I work 40+ hours (more like 70) and I don't have a volunteering H. I have a drafted one!!! LOL! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

Hmmm.... Let's see if I got this right? She takes your brace, uses it, puts it away and expects you to know where it is. & she's the neat and tidy person?<p>I once read that being "neat" doesn't necessarily mean that the person is organized so maybe she really didn't know exactly where the brace was when you first asked? Maybe she really did need to go look for it and just didn't feel like it?<p>Maybe you should have reminded her that even tho it is YOUR brace SHE uses it more than you do so she SHOULD know where it is??? Why not tell her what for? This to me, is not a LBer... She's just so mean to you all the time, it seems. Like you have to walk on eggshells all the time. You can't even lie down on your own bed? WHO CARES what kind of bedspread you have--it's a BED for crying out loud! SHEESH! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>SOoooo, my answer to you is NO you were not being petty, she was! I wonder if there will ever come a time when she feels sad or sorry that she wasn't nicer to you? I don't think it's too much to ask for us spouses to be polite toward each other!?!? You know, as polite as we would to a stranger???

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Faith1:
<strong>
p.s. I knew you were joking about the bedspread [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . I was ackowledging your joke (buh-dum-bump-csssh), and expressing my regret that I didn't have any constructive advice for you.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Faith1,
I think you know, that I knew that you were kidding, but to be sure we are clear, thanks for the comic relief back! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
hanora
yes, she talks often & I need reminded about the concentration & memory thing -- I eas over-reacting,internally!
MelodyLane
Thanks for your support!
I have not heard from you in a while --- Hope all is well!
Orchid
Thanks for checking in! & for your support!
As I have just recognised some new perspectives for myself, some of this drama is I think is a "need" for my DW to feel superior or at least control over me & to pick fights to then claim "Victory", as a means to validate her own self worth.
BINthere
I thought I might hear form you on this one! As I have said, you have been like a big sis to me, (as have others here as well!) & in case you don't know, I appreciate your continued support & insights!
I am coming to conclusion that no matter how I try, I am not going to be able to get her to see things from my perspective (narissum thing?! )- She (& I!) have developed such a pattern of relating that is so comfortable to her that she has no real motivation to change. And she contiunes in such apparent denial over her issues, Like SA [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] -- As so many have said, I need to continue to detach and try to work on my issues, which are becoming a big enough task by themself! <p>On way to work I heard Cahles Stanely preach on emotion of Loneliness & feelings of not being connected, intimcy in relationships -- hit me between the eyes! A pain I have felt & recognise! As you have reminded me, we have a friend in the Lord! I have to try & focus more on "Let GO & Let God ..."<p>****
Another continuing theme with her SA & another seemingly unreltated incident, Something potentially scarry came up yesterday with a friend of mine that I'll post about soon. It relates to a guy who is more an aquyantaince than true friend --
Peace to all, [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
HH<p>[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>