I am very hurt. After having a great weekend (I took her to a concert), she called OM this morning. They talked about OM leaving OMW. OM said OMW is not going to leave his W until she gets a job and OMW wants him out. The OMW is a stay at home homeschooler and does not want to leave. So they are at a circular argument. My WW told me she said "so what are you on the 10 year program." I asked her what she meant by that and she said nothing. I asked her why she was so curious about OM and whether or not they would get a divorse, and she said "no reason, just curious." Well of course I do not buy that. So I said well everyone has a reason and I said I have a reason for asking you and knowing too. She got mad and said I was argumentitive. We have been doing well, and I think plan a is working, however, I do not think WW will give up OM. They talk about 3 hours a week or so, and she is loosing interest.<p>My concern is that the OM's marriage is at stake. He will probably leave her unless she stops toying with him and breaks it off (or toying with me?). <p>So here is what I plan to do, I am going to tell her how I am feeling about all of this and how this is affecting me. I have been lying and telling her I am doing fine, but my life is actually a wreck. I hardly work at all and I feel crappy 75% of the time. I also am going to tell her that I do not want to sit around why she destroys both of our marriages. I am going to tell her to seriously consider her options right now because I do not think I will be able to take this much longer. <p>Please let me know what you think. I need help, I am scared, tired, and depressed. This was just at a time when I thought we had made good progress. I hate all of this!!!!

I can't respond right now (WW always wants to know what I am doing on the computer). But I would say take a deep breath and pause for a little while. At least for me a little bit of time has taken away some of the anger. I just would not say or do anything when the emotions you feel are too strong. I'll be back with some more thoughts.

dreamland:<p>What you are describing about what you want to do is going to something like a plan B, but firing all of your guns on your way out to cause as much damage BACK as you can. This would be a major LB, as you know. <p>I know it's hard, and I know I haven't been a model "plan Aer" all the time myself, but the thing you really need to do most is concentrate on yourself and stop worrying about what your W is doing or saying. You can't really stop any of that anyway. She has to decide to do that on her own. If she makes her decision to do the RIGHT thing and rebuild her relationship with you and STAY OUT of other peoples' relationships, and she does it in time for you to still be interested in rebuilding, then great. <p>Frankly, you haven't built a solid enough plan A and held it up for long enough to consider going to plan B. If you tried to go to plan B under these circumstances, your W would remember you as an angry, pitiful, clingy H. You don't want that (any more than I did the several times *I* felt like you do now!).<p>Yes, take a deep breath and relax a bit. Do your best to focus your thoughts and your energies on other things, not on what your W may or may not be saying or doing. It will get better!

Dreamland - <p>I hope you are doing OK. This crap we are going through never seems to get any easier. I still don't have much to say, but I'll reiterate what I said before and 2long said. <p>You need to be carefull making strong statements. If you want to give her an ultimatum ("seriously consider her options right now") you have to be prepared for what ever resonse you get. If you don't mean it or are not sure you would be OK with what ever she decides then it is probably not the time to do this. Remember it is also difficult to get into this type of conversation without LBing at some point. This is why they recommend a plan B letter so there is no LBing.<p>You also have to remember that the path we have chosen will not all be positive and in the right direction. I know I will be hurt again and the thought of this scares me because it may be one time to many. But I know the best I can do is try to calm myslef, prepare myself for more pain, continue with plan A, and let my WW know I don't want to be hurt anymore (not in a LB kind of way).

Thanks onwardandup, your quick reply help anchor my decision to continue biting my lip. Right after she ticked me off with the terrible 10 year comment It took all my strength biting my lip to prevent me from blowing a head gasket. I so much wanted to tell her off.<p>WW went to a neighborhood meeting. She was on the board. When WW got back I played the whole thing off. By then I had read my favorite chapter of SAA, and I was feeling slightly better. I kept my mouth shut. She had some neighborhood drama which kept her on the phone till 10:00. I put the boys in bed, and went to sleep (pretended). When she came to bed she wanted to talk about the neighborhood drama, mind you the lights were off. I said lets talk, and she played the no thats O.K game a few times and I convinced her to talk, after turning the lights on. We had a real nice hour talk about the neighborhood drama and anything else (except my pain and OM and A.) She mentioned a real nice three stone three carat anniversary ring, I am sure you know which one I am talking about. I entertained her a bit about this. However, I kept feeling that "yes I love you very deeply, but I just sold my boat (I love fishing), you are having an EA and had a PA, you are causing me so much grieve and pain, you do not even want to give up the OM, and you have the audacity to bring up a $20,000 ring you want." Man is the fog thick. I do not think she can see her hand in front of her face!!! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>2long and onwardandup, thanks for your follow up comments. I snuck out of bed tonight to come to this forum so that I can go to sleep tonight, (that and a few beers should do it).<p>I have to fly up to Peoria, IL for a two day business trip Weds. and Thurs. I hate doing this but this was an emergency. I will not have any access to the internet. I will see you all back on Friday.

Hi Dreamland,<p>I think Wat is on vacation this week but he has a story about a situation like yours. I am bumping this up to see if someone can dig up his story. It will help strengthen you. <p>RE: Right now your W is playing you for all she can get. You need to be strong and not allow her to get to you. <p>It is ridiculous that she ask for anything like that ring when she is acting like this. But as a spoiled child the A virus makes them think they are invincible and you are putty in her hands and she squeeze every drop of love out of you. <p>Sorry to keep you in suspense but I only remember the punch line and that's no fun!!! <p>L.

I also am going to tell her that I do not want to sit around why she destroys both of our marriages. I am going to tell her to seriously consider her options right now because I do not think I will be able to take this much longer.
SO what are you going to do when she says, "Do whatever you need to"?<p>The problem with giving an ultimatum is you need to back it up. Do you really want to end the marriage at this point?<p>If you back down, you are showing her you cannot make a sound decision.<p>I'm not suggesting you do it (give her an ultimatum), just think about what you want before you speak.<p>Plan A is learning how to improve your relationship.
If she sees changes in you, she will probably be doubtful they will stick (because of all the emotional turmoil).
If you give her an ultimatum and back down, then you will prove to her (at least in her mind) you cannot make permanent changes for the better.<p>[ May 27, 2002: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]</p>

Well,<p>What I'm about to suggest is akin to dropping a nuclear bomb on your WW, and maybe not very "MB proper" BUT, have you considered talking to OM's W? Let her know that her H is "involved" in A?<p>As much as you wouldn't want to be in the dark, not knowing about the A, think about this poor SAHM whose entire world is about to be rocked by your WW and her own H!<p>Redhat, I think, contacted the OM's W and then counseled her! In helping her do what she had to do (getting a copy of SAA, for instance), it helped her remain steadfast, which helped "push" the situation a little bit. However, having said that, let me add that last I heard, I THINK Redhat's W was STILL thickly involved in her A. <p>Just a thought. I read your post about your WW trying to push OM to leave his W, and all I could think about was how this poor woman has NO IDEA that her life is about to get this bomb dropped on it. <p>Talk about a terrorist attack.<p>I'm praying for you, Dreamland.

Did I read this correctly? Your wife has an affair that had gone sexual and continue to be in an emotional affair at the very least with the OM and has the audacity to ask you to buy her a $20,000 ring? I believe that Orchid is right when she said that your wife is playing you. It seems like she knows she can do anything she wishes because you will accept anything and everything. She was caught in a sexual affair putting your health at risk for STD's and instead of being extremely remorseful and cutting of all ties to him to try to rebuild your marriage she instead continues contact and talks about OM leaving his wife.<p>This is a problem I see with a long term plan A if the the wife does not cut contact with the OM
and is not extremely remorseful and dedicated to rebuilding the marriage They believe that the betrayed spouse is willing to accept anything to stay together which actually makes the betrayed spouse look weak and pathetic because he is willing to continue to accept the humiliation of contact by the WS with the OM. Let me ask you this. If the roles were reversed do you honestly think that your wife would accept continued contact by you with the woman you had sexual relations with in an ongoing affair?
Your wife still refuses to stop contact with the OM while asking you for a $20,000 ring? I would look very hard and question the character of your wife and ask yourself is this really a person you can respect. Her request for a gift is unbelievable but clearly she feels you are foolish enough to entertain the idea. I am afraid that you are being used and that she seems to be a cakewoman who wants it all and is not willing to give up anything. Your story is very sad. I wish you luck.

lupolady,<p>I have spoken to the OMW. She new about the A days after my D-day. The OM told her. I think both of them were hoping OMW and I would flip out and kick them out and they would be together. Boy were they surprised. The OMW and me were willing to try to make things work. Now, I think the OMW wants the OM gone. He is being cruel to her. He has some of his stuff packed and he keeps it in the car. When he comes home at night, he brings in his travel bag. What a control freak. My wife would certainly be surprised if they get together. She is very independent and likes to be in control too. Not a very good match.