Haven&#8217;t given you all much of an update lately, but I&#8217;ll try to give you the short version. We had been to counseling about 3 or 4 times, and I had stopped contact with OM for a week & 1/2 during this time. H went to NC on vacation, and I had no contact with OM&#8230;until the day after H came home (he called me). I realize it doesn&#8217;t matter who called who, but I want to make it clear that I was making an effort to stop contact&#8230;it&#8217;s just so hard to get past that 3 week point. I have yet to do so.<p>So H realized not much else was changing, and I assume started recording phone convos again for a couple weeks maybe. Then without warning, he pulls a letter out during counseling (the one he posted here) and read it to me. Even though he says in the letter that reconciliation was possible if the correct measures were taken, he has been full steam ahead with divorcing me. That was last Tuesday the 14th.<p>I was pretty numb to the idea for the first couple days. All along, still having contact with OM. OM is still in a relationship with his GF, and has pretty much shown me that he&#8217;s not there for me. (OK I&#8217;m ready for the &#8220;I told you so&#8217;s&#8221 [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] . As I see him now, he is someone who saw a challenge, went for it, roped me in with mature ideas and sweet talk, led me to believe we had a future together, and when he saw that might actually happen, he clammed up, ran the opposite way, shut me out, and left me to pick up the pieces of the mess WE made together. I resent that, and I&#8217;m slowly getting over him. I have weak moments, and I look to my husband for support during these times. The last time I saw OM was Friday. All weekend long, I had to endure my H coming home late every night, buying new clothes & underwear, new haircuts, etc. I was strong and didn&#8217;t call OM for support. <p>Monday was my worst day with all this. I started to realize that my life is going on a downward spiral&#8230;OM left me there to deal with it alone, and H is moving on. Now when the fog is lifting, I have no support at all. I had a really bad breakdown on Monday night (after breaking down various times during work, and after work in IC). All H wanted to do is talk about his appt with the D lawyer, and I was not emotionally ready to deal with it. I think he's being really hasty and his mother has told him the same. I emailed him asking him not to bring it up until I was stronger. I tried to come home as late as I could without having to talk, and when I did, I went upstairs and locked myself in my room. H kept asking to talk, I said no, and he said he promised he wouldn&#8217;t bring up the D. Asked what he wanted to talk about and he said &#8220;us&#8221;. So I let him in, and all he did was ask me questions about OM. I asked him to not do this, as it made it much harder for me during recovery, and he just kept on and on saying that he&#8217;s asking because he &#8220;cares what happens&#8221; to me. He was just fishing for info, which really should&#8217;nt matter at this point if he is so hellbent on divorce. So I stopped answering his questions about OM, and he went on to talking about D. He didn&#8217;t stop, and I lost it. Really broke down like never before. H tried to comfort me, but I was pretty out of control. He said he wouldn&#8217;t bring it up again. H had hinted around that there may be a chance for recovery.<p>Tuesday I was feeling better, still no contact with OM. H still dropping hints that he doesn&#8217;t want a D either. I got home, and made dinner. We ate separately. H started asking questions about OM again&#8230;asking why he&#8217;s not calling me, why he&#8217;s spending all his time with his GF, saying &#8220;I thought you two were in love and were planning a future together?&#8221; Just making jabs, really. Asked him to please stop bringing OM up. Then he started quoting conversations that I had recently on the phone with my BF. I asked H where the recorder was. He said he just &#8220;knew someone&#8221;. But I knew he had something set up. I asked why is he even bothering with the recorder when he&#8217;s wanting a D so badly? He said "you&#8217;re right", and disconnected it. But I still feel disgusted about this. Right or wrong, I do not want to worry about what I talk about on the phone. We started fighting pretty heavy and he ended up leaving the house at 10:00 pm.<p>I fell asleep and got woken up around 1:00 am with a phone call from his drunk friend Joe. I didn't make it to the phone, so I called him back and asked if everything was ok. He said he didn't call me. I said "you did", and he said he didn't mean to. Then I called H&#8217;s phone and no answer. I happened to call again, and then he picked up. Or he hit the button by accident and didn't realize he'd answered his phone. I heard about 10 minutes of conversation at a bar, then another couple minutes of conversation with 2 girls in the parking lot! Couldn't hear the bar convo much, but I heard him clear as a bell in the lot. On his way out, he asked a girl if she was OK and if he could give her a ride to her car. Then she said no, that her date was waiting for her. Then he got to his car, and started yelling things at these 2 girls...saying "where you going?" One asked what there is to do at this time of night, and he said, "I'll follow you wherever you go!" And she asked again where they could go, and he suggested they go back to Joe's house (he lives alone) and that Joe has liquor. He asked if one girl wanted to ride with him and said "I have heated seats!" Then I suppose he went to call Joe and the phone disconnected. I tried to call him back right away, and no answer. All night. <p>He rolled in at 6:00 am. I got no sleep. Then when I asked him where he was, he said he fell asleep at Joe's. I asked with who, he said no one, and that he was with Joe. I said I knew he was with girls and that he wasn't even with Joe at the bar, and he flat out denied it and said he was with Joe and that Joe had his phone! I said I knew Joe didn't have H&#8217;s phone because I heard H talking. Now he's trying to make me think I'm crazy by telling me I didn't hear what I heard. These games are so out of control! I told him that I was really hoping for reconciliation (which was a really slim chance to begin with after what I did) but after what I heard and what he did, there's no chance. I know he had sex. I feel at least I didn&#8217;t plan this&#8230;I didn&#8217;t go looking for an A, but he&#8217;s doing it simply to get his rocks off. He&#8217;s now had an affair. He&#8217;s no better than me. He said the papers were in the mail and that I didn't have to worry and it would all be over soon. Then I really blew it...Bigtime LB. He mentioned OM again, and why I can't seem to let him go, and I made a reference to OM&#8217;s &#8220;size&#8221;. Then I realized that is the worst insult one could ever give a man, and I apologized immediately. <p>I just feel like it&#8217;s so far gone now. And I&#8217;m feeling really alone through all of this. Afraid of more breakdowns and seriously considering a leave of absence from work. For me, it&#8217;s not even about OM anymore&#8230;it&#8217;s about making myself better for my marriage, and even if there&#8217;s no chance of improving my marriage, at least I'll be better the next time around. But how can I make myself better when my H is constantly throwing the OM up in my face, and then going out and having affairs himself?<p>BTW, Hope4Future already gave me her opinion on all this via email...thank you H4f [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] She's harsh sometimes, but I value her opinion.<p>Spinning out of control&#8230;<p>IAF

Honey, I'm confused. I don't keep up with many of the new people here, but I've read a few of the funk threads. The thing I don't get is the whole thing. I am giving no opinions, just restating what I hear from you. Tell me what I have right.<p>You cannot seem to keep from contacting OM, and expect H to understand and not bring it up because it is painful. <p>But then, after you say he is pressing forward mightily with divorce you are nuts about him spending an evening out.<p>You justify your real affair with OM as some sort of different category then his maybe affair with some unknown entity. <p>Now you can consider his wrong as worse than your wrong because reasonings were different (even though you don't know if he did anything).<p>You continue behaving in an manner that will surely kill a marriage, yet when he files for divorce and is hellbent on making it happen you are suprized and hurt.<p>You say that OM is pretty much not worth a hill of beans, used you and is not there for you anymore.<p>But you still keep contact with him.<p>You say it's not about OM anymore, but you still keep contact with him.<p>You are and have been having an affair, but even though your actions are somewhat justified to yourself, your H gives you a little scare - and we still don't know what happened - and you call it "going out and having affairs himself".<p>End of my summary of your post.<p>Now, you ask how you can make yourself better.<p>A. Get a new shrink. This one isn't working.<p>B. Get over it and stop all contact with OM, not for any other reason than you seem to tell us he is a jerk.<p>C. Figure out what you want, and stick with it. One day you may decide that the whole OM thing isn't as important as you thought it was, but by that time you might be divorced and your H in a loving and secure relationship with someone more stable.<p>D. Realize that only you have control over your life. The sooner the better.<p>E

Please try to take care of yourself. This is such a stressful time in your life. <p>You're talking about counseling -- are you seeing an individual counselor as well? Can you also see your physician? Anti-depressants have saved my sanity. I felt so many of the feelings you've described, and the one thing that really helped me was Celexa.<p>I also was at a point where I was starting to see the faults in my relationship with OM. I knew all of the ways he disappointed me, and I started disbelieving that we had a future together. If my H had been able to hold it together, we might have had a chance. But he also reacted very emotionally (I know -- who would blame him -- but its not easy to deal with an explosive angry man either) My H did all the same things you're talking about -- relationship talks, poking at me constantly, snide hurtful comments, every LB'er he could find.<p>What the Anti-deps did for me was clear my head. Be able to think about the situation in a calm detached manner. I was able to focus on me. And do you know what? I'm good. I'm doing really really good. And I am not with EITHER of those men. H and I are divorcing, and I have no relationship with OM. In fact, I have no romantic relationship at ALL! I am on my own -- focusing on my kids and our future. I feel happier and more content with my life than I have for YEARS. In spite of the chaos of divorce and moving, etc.<p>I understand where you're at. My H also had an affair. And its easy to start playing the "who's mistake was worse" game...but why bother?<p>You can't control his actions any more than he can control yours. You're both hurting each other. That cycle needs to stop. And I suggest you stop it by focusing on yourself. Plan A yourself!

ditto what justthewife said<p>You are driving you H away by continued contact with OM and your refusal to talk things over. You are too sensitive to handle things. Yet you expect him to do better. You are in a very thick fog and think everything revolves around you.<p>What I'm curious about is that I really do not see one good reason why your H would have any reason to think that there is any hope for your marriage?<p>Did you know that most BS's go on to have a secondary affair? Where did you think things would go when you opened the Pandora's box of infidelity? Your affair is no better then his. An affair for ‘love’ is not better then an affair of sex. An affair is an affair. You are both wrong in your actions. Your marriage has no chance of survival unless one of you makes the first step to change. It seems to me that at this point, if there is to be any hope it's going to have to be you. Because of your affair, your continued contact, and your continued self-focus, my bet is that it's going to have to be you. <p>Most amazing.

How many BS's would LOVE to hear that their WS had reconcilliation on their mind?<p>How many BS's would LOVE to hear that WS was beginning to realize the futality of their affair?<p>How many BS's would LOVE to hear that WS wanted to end contact?<p>She is TRYING to do the right things now -- in spite of doing the wrong things before.<p>And if she had a spouse who could follow the MB principals -- they might have a chance.

Um...<p>I think "Funk" is misspelled!<p>I won't go down the itemized list of things you posted, because we've seen stuff like this before. But, what stands out to me?<p>You love each other. Sounds weird, doesn't it?<p>What should you do?<p>You BOTH should stop doing ANYTHING to SPITE the other person. You're getting nowhere fast with this game-playing. How old are you two, anyway? I'd guess in your teens or early 20's, based on what I've read. This sounds like High School crap.

Feeling that this one is directed towards me, so I'll bite. I have my flame proof outfit on...<p>
How many BS's would LOVE to hear that their WS had reconcilliation on their mind?<p>Tons probably. But that's like having a boss that keeps promising that one of these days you'll get a raise. It doesn't mean anything unless you get the paper to back it up. Her actions do not back up that she has reconcilliation on her mind.<p>
How many BS's would LOVE to hear that WS was beginning to realize the futality of their affair?<p>Again tons, but there is such a point as to little to late, and I hope she hasn't found herself there. I never said she was stupid, just not looking at things objectively. Reality check.<p>How many BS's would LOVE to hear that WS wanted to end contact?<p>OK this is starting to get boring. A BS would love to hear and hang on to anything positive. But the thing is, I'll use my stuff as an example..<p>[censored] calls me from out of town project, professes deep and undying love, tells me how much he wants this whole stupid bimbette chapter to be over. We hang up. He gets in bimbettes car and does her in the parking lot before they go out to our favorite restraunt.<p>When funk here tells how much she wants this to be over, then moons over OM, LB's about his penis, and talks to him on the phone, the message she is giving is this.<p>I want what I want and what I feel I need is appropriate and if I feel I can't help myself then my H should understand and not mention it.<p>If my 8 year old behaved that way he would find himself punished harshly. <p>When he is 16 and tells me he wishes he could stop taking a hit or two off his friends bong, but it's just so hard, I'd slap his happy stoned butt in rehab and tell him to get his $hit together.<p>She is TRYING to do the right things now -- in spite of doing the wrong things before.<p>Know what? A person can only take so much. I hope her husband is a heck of a lot more forgiving than I am. Truly.<p>
And if she had a spouse who could follow the MB principals -- they might have a chance. <p>That is totally off. She decides this is the program for them and although SHE will NOT follow it he is expected to? Give me a break!<p>And maybe if she wouldn't have done what she did in the first place they would have an even better chance.<p>
I just don't get it. That's all. I repeated back what I was hearing for verification, and gave her a few steps I thought were important. <p>People cannot expect more from other people than they are willing to give. That only works when you are a child.<p>She is not a child.<p>None of us are. We make decisions, and suffer natural consequences.<p>She posts what she did, and expects to get the response I gave, and you feel the need to rescue and attack? <p>Junior High.<p>I won't play with you anymore.<p>E

Lexxxy, thank you for your support...I am very anti-drug, and find it to be against my principles to take any meds. I even avoid Advil at all costs. But I'm seriously considering taking anti-deps now. I was worried that they would numb my wits, and hinder any major decision-making I need to do. But it doesn't sound that way in your description.<p>2Long: Tell me how you really feel. In my sig line, you will see that I am 29 and he is 32. But we've been dating since HS, so does that count?! I know a lot of this seems childish...you don't think I realize this? We both have issues with pride, and it's hard to deal with when we both want to be right. Fact is, we're both wrong. I'm seriously trying to make things right, but he makes it almost impossible. <p>JTW: I haven't talked to OM in a few days and plan to keep it that way because this is the easiest it has been so far. I'm having a hard time with trying not to call when H is LBing. Trying to reach out for help so I WONT DO THIS. Isn't that obvious? And I never said his A was more wrong than mine. Equally are disastrous to this M. What kills me is that he did this after being educated by the MB guidelines. Now he's just preaching to the choir. And about my "shrink", she's awesome. I've been to her once and got much more feedback than the other 2 people we've been to already. Another appt on Tues. Can hardly stand the wait.

Inafunk,<p>Ok, I cannot stand this. I know I will regret it, but Inafunk you are so screwed up. This whole thing isn't about your H. You are simply blame shifting. Frankly as long as you are in the affair and you ARE, his actions mean diddly.<p>THE ONLY PERSON YOU CAN CONTROL AND ACCOUNT TO IS YOURSELF. Start doing it. Quit blaming your H. You started the affair, you are still having an affair, and by all rights even Biblical you should and can be divorced.<p>Whether your H follows the MB principles or not is irrelevant to the issue of your affair. Even Harley points out that the affair has to die before the MB approach could work, and yours has not. Your total focus should be on what you have done to yourself and your H and how you fix that. Only after you are done with the affair will your marriage become something of a concern.<p>You see right now your logic is sooo screwed up it doesn't make any difference what he does or doesn't do. If he sat home every night and cried waiting for you, you would see him as a weak sniffling whinner. He cannot win, and apparently he has given up trying to win. THAT IS YOUR FAULT. Got that YOUR FAULT.<p>Face the music young lady. You have rubbed his face in it and you continue to rub his face in it. Quit doing that, quit the affair and see if there is anything left of this marriage. Lexxxy is right about many things, but deep down she knows her affair killed her marriage, no matter what her H did or didn't do. Her affair tore a chunk out of him that will never grow back.<p>You are doing the same to your H, and then you wonder: why is acting this way??? <p>So fix YOUR situation with OM, THEN worry about your H. It is too late for you to help him avoid the pain of what you have done, that has already happened. Focus on ending this affair, because it must end whether or not your marriage survives.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Focus on ending this affair, because it must end whether or not your marriage survives.
<hr></blockquote><p>I'm doing just that. Thanks for all the words of encouragement. NOT.

Inafunk,<p>Where DID you get such scintillating wit???<p>You are worrying far to much about what your H may or may not have done, and clearly not nearly enough on ending the affair. Focus on ending the affair.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

JL...you're absolutely right. And I am focusing on that. Would love to focus more on me as well instead of what H is doing. It's hard when you live in the same house.<p>Sorry about the snide comment. Didn't expect this type of reaction. It's cool. Was beginning to wonder who peed in all your corn flakes?

Inafunk,
This statement: I'm having a hard time with trying not to call when H is LBing.<p>You have to recognize your A is about you NOT how your H acts. The bottom line is you are responsible for your own actions. There is NO excuse for an A. No one can make you do anything. If you are not happy, then leave your marriage - that is the noble thing to do. NOT go find someone else because you are too insecure to be alone and you need a backup plan just in case this doesn't work out. <p>Are you willing to loose OM and loose H and find happiness and contenment alone? That is the risk you must be willing to take as you wait for your H to exit the fog that you were once (and are still in based on your post). Your definately NOT at this healthy place now (understandably so) BUT PLEASE make that your goal in life!<p>One of you has to be the bigger person and be willing to do the hard things and realize marriage is for better or worse, in sickness and in health, till death do you part.

Funk,<p>I think the point being made here is that there is a hug difference between 'trying' and 'doing'. <p>Your a 'trying' to end your affair. That means that you have not ended it. As long as you contact OM, talk to him, lament and pine over him you have not ended the affair.<p>The way to end an affair is to just do it.
Simply end the affair. Stop lamenting - use some thought redirectying to get your mind off it. Start 'acting as if' to change your behavior so that you behave as a person who has ended the affair.<p>And please don't tell me that I don't know how hard it is. Years ago I was involved with a married man. I dated him only because he told me that his divorce only needed a signature - right!!! I fell madly in love with him. The feelings still come the surface when I think about him. My feelings were as real and deep as they get. When I found out about his lies I walked away. No looking back, no pineing. He lied to me and his wife. I have no use for him.<p>So I will not buy that you, or any other WS, cannot just move on.. cold turkey. I've done it. I've seen others do it. Your are wallowing in self pity while your marriage falls apart. <p>Your H is moving on because you have given him no hope for your marriage.<p>If you love your H and want your marriage, this is your wakeup call. It's now or never for you and your marriage. Cann't you see that?

inafunk:<p>"2Long: Tell me how you really feel."<p>I did. Don't feel bad. I expect this kind of blunt honesty when I'm behaving like a child, and I do that from time to time even now.<p>"In my sig line, you will see that I am 29 and he is 32. But we've been dating since HS, so does that count?!"<p>Oh yeah. But, although I can't remember 32 all that well, I do remember realizing recently that I probably didn't "mature" until I was about 35. I think most men are like that (though my W's OM, at 36, is not an adult yet). Most women mature earlier than men. But the gaussian curve is probably several years wide.

"I know a lot of this seems childish...you don't think I realize this?"<p>No, I don't think you realize this.<p>"We both have issues with pride, and it's hard to deal with when we both want to be right."<p>Like WAT pointed out to me when I was being prideful recently: "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?" You probably can't have both now, but if you work at it, you might be able to achieve both in a couple of years.

"Fact is, we're both wrong. I'm seriously trying to make things right, but he makes it almost impossible."<p>Okay, maybe you both are wrong. But he's got nothing to do with your efforts to make things right. Only you can do that, and wait for him to "come around" if he actually needs to.<p>"JTW: I haven't talked to OM in a few days and plan to keep it that way because this is the easiest it has been so far."<p>A FEW DAYS!!???? That's NOTHING. In effect, you have not even ended this A. And you certainly have not established "no contact." You can't even start recovery until you do. And as Liz pointed out, you can only hope that your H will give a damn when you do.

"I'm having a hard time with trying not to call when H is LBing. Trying to reach out for help so I WONT DO THIS. Isn't that obvious?"<p>None of this is unusual. But it's not going to be obvious what your intentions are until you've got a record of some success. You don't. A few days is not enough. Certainly to convince your H of your sincerity.

"And I never said his A was more wrong than mine."<p>Sorry to burst your guilt transfer bubble here, but you have no proof that your husband shagged it with one of those bimbettes at the bar. I've been to bars many times, sometimes when I've been depressed, sometimes I've talked to female aquaintences at the bar (but NEVER about my M). I've never gone home or anywhere else with these women (unless a bunch of us were going to another party, and I don't do parties anymore). It might even sound like something might be about to happen if you were to pick up snippets of conversation, like with your H's phone being "keyed". But, unless you can confirm there was an "encounter" you simply don't know one way or the other. Are you willing to trash what little is left of your M on the ASSUMPTION that he boned one of those gals? Or are you going to focus on ending your A and beginning W/D, with help from your H, before the DV is finalized and he's gone.

"Equally are disastrous to this M. What kills me is that he did this after being educated by the MB guidelines."<p>If he actually did it. And even if he did, recovery is possible. It would be harder, but possible.

"Now he's just preaching to the choir."<p>?<p>"And about my "shrink", she's awesome. I've been to her once and got much more feedback than the other 2 people we've been to already. Another appt on Tues. Can hardly stand the wait."<p>Good for you!

Just a note about the recorder: you should encourage your H to tape your conversation in order to rebuild trust. Also give him all access to email/voice mail etc. <p>That is a tangible way to do something different...to be willing to do the hard things...to tell him he is worth it...to accept responsiblities for your actions and the damage you have caused to the marriage...to show him with action that you are willing to work on the marriage because your words mean nothing right now and won't mean anything for a long time. There is no quick fix.

Mrs. Funk,
Good for you for being here, and searching for some answers!!!<p>Also, consider yourself lucky to be receiving such straight-forward advice. When you really want to know how to succeed at something, you don't people to beat around the bush, do ya?

IaF,
Hang in there. It is still so early. Don't take all the "flames" so personally. <p>Like you said at the end of your first post...you are focusing on bettering yourself for your M. Yes, do that. That should be your main and only focus now. <p>Your H is suffering. Those same feelings you are feeling about him and his "wrong doings" are the same feelings he is feeling towards yours. <p>Now that you both know how it feels(bad thing), find a way to let it go. You want to M or you don't. Make the choice then go from there. There is no in between. YOU ARE MARRIED OR YOU ARE NOT.<p>I do have to say this....your H is asking you all these questions to try to get a handle of the situation. That may be a good thing or a bad thing, but he is doing it. He is asking all the questions YOU WILL probably ask him now that he may have cheated on you. <p>Right now at this early stage, I think you should get real with yourself and your H and come clean with all of it. Tell him EVERYTHING. Leave nothing out and maybe he won't ask anymore questions...maybe. <p>He is trying to figure out why you hurt him. So, tell him why. <p>As a FBS and FWS, I know what you are BOTH going through. Fix your own issues. You can't fix his. You will never be able to. Only he can do that. You can help him heal though. <p>You want this to change? Look inside yourself just like you said you were going to do. <p>I'm feeling your pain. My H did the same thing to me. My biggest mistake was becoming a WS like he was. Now I am suffering the consequences still after 3 years. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] One A is too many. I regret it everyday. <p>Find something else to focus on when your lonely, sad, hurting, or angry other then the OM. I know you think he would make it all go away. Just one more hit.... IaF, throw that crutch away and do it now, both P and E (physically and emotionally). Just thinking about him(OM) is enough to destroy your M isn't it? <p>FOCUS ON YOU NOW<p>INTHECLOUDS

((((((((INTHECLOUDS))))))))))<p>Thank you [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Inafunk -- I understand so much what you're feeling.<p>If I understand this situation correctly, D-Day was not even 2 months ago. And you're still in the affair. I'm sure that it is heart-wrenching for your H. But I can see where you're coming from. It is so difficult to break away, and its even harder when you're getting nothing but emotionally battered by H while trying.<p>I'd like to e-mail you.