Hi All,
Been pondering this one for awhile.<p>When W and I were together she always, without exception , put the interests and needs of her two D's (my stepchildren) ahead of mine. She always talked about what a happy family "we" would make together but once the rings were exchanged she made it quite clear I was suddenly #4. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I in turn found myself meeting the needs of the three of them to the best of my ability with very little in return.<p>I'm going to keep this short because I could go into much greater detail [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>This ,in my opinion, was a large element in the failure of our marriage.<p>My thoughts on this are if the spouses make each other #1 and are happy in their marriage then it should follow you'll have happy children as well. Make any sense?<p>If this sounds like I, a grown man, was somewhat jealous of two children, then you're right. It was an issue she would never consider discussing with me<p> [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Even though it's too late for us any opinion is appreciated. <p>Thanks all [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I try to balance this and keep it on an even keel but there are times when it's one or the other.<p>If the kid is sick or hurting, then of course they come first.<p>If the hubby gets a great job offer in a new city and the kids don't want to move, h comes first.<p>Some people think you should sacrifice everything for your kids but I don't. They will grow up one day and leave and if you've given them everything---run off your SO because of conflict--what will you have for yourself?<p>Selfish? Maybe. I don't care.

That depends, do you want your children raised by both parents, or do you want to exchange custody on the weekends?<p>My H is very high maintenance, and I've paid dearly for putting the kids above him. An innocent mistake on my part, but a disaster to my family as when he began missing the attention, he found it elsewhere.<p>In my case, it has to be the spouse. Otherwise there will be no spouse. Of course the spouse has to be reasonable. He would never expect me to leave one in the hospital unattended to come home and baby him. (for example).

The spouse. The spouse. The spouse. Our problems started largely because of my very close friendship with my oldest son. W felt left out - understandably, I now can see. That opened the door for the A.<p>Our MC likes to make a triangle with her hands and say that the parents are at the pinnacle, and the kids are below. When one of the kids rises to the level of the parents, it splits the parents apart.<p>There is no better way to have happy kids than to have a happy marriage. The greatest gift my parents gave to me was the example of their 31 years of devotion to each other.<p>[ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: Baffled ]</p>

Dear getting better,<p>Obviously, if the parents cannot stay together, life will be tough for the kids, so the parents (having met the kids fundamental physical and emotional needs) must make maintaining their relationship top priority.<p>However, after listening to many hours of commentary by a well-known psychologist (radio and books), what you are experiencing is the norm rather than the exception in stepfamilies. Dr. Laura Schlessinger has said repeatedly that in a conflict that involves a parent, his/her biological children, and the stepparent, the parent will chose his/her biological children over the new spouse. That your W considers you #4 is painful and unfair, but very predictable according to Dr. Laura. In addition, she says that the situation will not change. The kids will continue to "win." Sadly, she frequently quotes statistics that show that second marriages fail at a higher rate than first marriages for reasons just like what you are experiencing. Not many step-spouses can maintain a full love bank, in MB terms, when they are treated like that.<p>Will your W consider family counseling with you, even you and the kids, so that your family can survive? Maybe you can appeal to the mother in her by calling attention to the additional trauma the children will endure if your marriage fails. <p>Take care,
Estes

Jamup,<p>You are so correct, hence the blame that falls on me. After a year of marriage and working very hard to keep everyone satisfied I started to withdraw from my family. I was tired of working weekend overtime to provide for our financial needs, watching the kids so W could get out and have a break from everything. (She was a stay at home mom). I had little time for myself much less time for my wife and I.
If W and I decided to watch tv together, say a special show we both wanted to see we couldn't sit together on the loveseat or couch without her calling the kids in with us even though they may have playing quietly in their rooms. Then W would put cartoons on for them and tell me to go watch our show in our bedroom.
I was so whipped by that point in our M I never said anything, I'd usually just go to bed. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Every other weekend when her ex had the kids and we were alone we usually had a blast, all kinds of fun stuff [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] But come Sunday evening on the kids return I was basically ignored until the next visitation with their Dad. Many mornings I'd wake up for work and W wouldn't be in our bed. She would sleep with the youngest D if she woke up for whatever reason, bathroom visit, bad dream, etc.<p>W knew I was unhappy with this but I was never vincitcive at all towards or the kids. I still showed them how much I had for them all but I guess I wasn't good enough. W started getting on the 'net after I went to bed. That was easy I was in bed early enough to be at work by 4:30 most evenings. I withdrew, she withdrew.<p>The rest is history. <p>Thanks for listening to my whining vent but it's the first time I've really talked about some of the more particular aspects here. <p>I sure wish I knew about MB before they left <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> <p>I am in counseling and he suggested I open up some more. I told him of this forum and he said go for it [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Estes,
Thanks for your considerate reply.<p>In answer to your question regarding family counseling, the answer is definitely NO [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I don't know if you've read my whole story but I came home from work on 12/7/01, to find a simple note that wasn't very nice. W and kids, as well as some of her furniture gone. <p>She had moved back home with her side of the family. Grandma, great grandma, cousins, aunts, uncles all live in a very small town and are very close knit. The kids were delighted. I even talked by phone with the minister that married us and her referred to her family as a "clan", not in a bad way of course [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>She returned a few weeks later with two brothers and a van to retrieve her remaining items, which she did. I stayed away from the house, I was too emotional to see her. I found out she was in a fullblown A shortly thereafter from a GF of hers.<p>She essentially plan B'd me since the day she left
. I did manage a few phone calls with her over the holidays and didn't mention the A at all, to no avail.
She was quite cold and emotionless.<p>W now has her own apartment with the kids. She won't give me her phone number or address. She's close to 200 miles away.<p>After I found MB I tried plan via e-mail about three months. Impossible, she just kept asking me to divorce her. Oh and send her more money [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Which I didn't. That's a little fog there isn't it [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Have a great evening [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Meant plan A via e-mail, sorry!

I don't think that the kids or the spouse should come "first".<p>I think that the integrity and needs of the family should come first, and that means putting the marriage first, to ensure the safety of all.

Just don't give up too soon, gb, but do sone heavy thinking about how much of this you can take. <p>My DIL left my S a little over a year ago. Moved to another state to carry on an A, lying the whole time - typical A stuff. He eventually moved there to be near his son. They are in counseling, but things are not going well even though the A is probably over. <p>May I respectfully ask what you base your hopes on that she may change? From what you say, she seems like a very selfish person who is giving no thought at all to your dignity and feelings.<p>Your only choice now is to try to pull your life together as best you can, try to be patient as long as you can, and try to believe that you will be OK again even if it is without her, because eventually, you will.<p>Wishing you better times,
Estes

Bramble,
I guess that's what I was trying to say. The MARRIAGE comes first. I agree completely [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thank You

I was going to say "spouse"... but I like "marriage" better. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Putting the needs of the marriage first, fills many needs of the kids. Love, security, confidence, etc. <p>Some parents let their kids run the show... when you look at those families, things are all upside down. Schedules, finances, marriage, kids behavior, etc.<p>just my 2, ok maybe 3 cents (on this very important issue)

Estes,<p>I guess the only hope I have left is just wishing she'd remember all the things I did for her and the kids and I know that's unrealistic.<p>I hope she remembers the beautiful home she left for a tiny apartment, I know, materialistic and really doesn't matter.<p>The times I took her and the kids to the doctor or E.R. and stayed with them. The fun we had on vacation and how hard I worked to save the money.<p>I always was polite. She is a great cook and I gave her compliments every day. Not one day went by when I didn't tell her I loved her, I rarely heard that back. Except from the four (now five) year old who would always run up to me , jump into my arms and say "Kiss Me Baby" [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I helped with homework and did all of the other household duties typically expected of a husband.
From my old fashioned point of view. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] Yard, garbage, blah,blah,blah.<p>One other thing of significance. When W left a portion of the note she wrote me was that the girls and I did not get along.<p>We always got along, in the best way, until W came back home and started her criticisims of them.<p>Last Summer we had a vacation by the shore. The oldest and I woke up at daybreak . I looked out the window bleary eyed and thought a ship was going to hit our hotel. It was huge! I told her to rush out with me to see this and we stood in the sand in the cool morning breeze, both of us absolutely amazed. It was an ore ship registered under a Canadian flag. She hugged me for the first time. It was everything I could do to hold back tears. She's a hard kid, not prone to affection.<p>I'll treasure that moment. I ran upstairs, got the camera and let her take some shots of the ship.<p>They turned out great.<p>In a nutshell, I've held on this long because I love my family and believe in marriage. <p>I've been doing very well lately with myself. I'm going to be fine. Not ready for anything new yet.<p>Just really venting some inner feelings and experiences I've had for the first time here.<p>I was only married a short time. I cannot possibly imagine what it is like for most of the rest of you on here.<p>God Bless

getting better,<p>How did your wife’s previous marriage end? How long after her divorce did you get married?<p>---------
As for your original question, BrambleRose has an interesting way of putting it. Puts things in the right perspective I think.<p>What it boils down to is that the marriage must be strong as it is the very foundation of the family. Without it the family falls apart.<p>My ex-h placed our son between us. Not only figuratively but literally. He insisted that our son sleep with us, in between us, until I left him. Our son was 7 years old at the time. We are still dealing with the problems this type of family structure caused our son.<p>My current H and I came to an agreement on this before we married. Our solution is one that most of the step-parenting books do not agree with. But the blended families we’ve seen work the best do it this way. We operate like a ‘real family’. He is the father, I am the mother, the children are children. He and I parent all three of the kids as our own. Once in a while one of us will step back and let the biological parent handle something because the kids will take it better that way. But otherwise we are just one big family.<p>When the kids start whining ‘you’re not my mother/father I don’t have to listen to you. We tell them that we are the mother/father in THIS household. And they are the children here. Actually just realized that it’s been months since they tried pulling that. Guess they gave up. <p>We support each other in this. Our relationship always comes first. The kids know this now too. They don’t try to play one of us off the other anymore. <p>As for time together. We don’t get as much as we’d like, but it does take top priority except when a child’s health (mental or physical) is at risk.

Well, Mike,<p>From what you say, your M was doomed before it even began because of hangups WW had to begin with. I don't think that ANYTHING you could have done would have satisfied her.<p>If HALF of what you said you did is true, you are one special man. Obviously, the problem is not you. It is her, her, her. Sadly, you can't change her.<p>Also keep in mind that affair-talk involves blaming you for all sorts of things that you never did, as in not getting along with the children. She never allowed you to be the outstanding husband and father you could be.
HER HUGE LOSS, and the children's, too. Don't let those false accusations manipulate you into believing you failed. Remember, her disgraceful behavior is about her, not about you.<p>You seem like a good man, Mike. You deserve better.<p>Estes

GB (Mike),

I don't know what to say. I think you were had. It's a pity. You sound like a great guy who could have been a fine husband to somebody who appreciated you.

I can imagine how shocked you were by the way things went. Before you married, it probably seemed great.

I agree that the kids cannot rule. In a round about way, they come first - but not in an up-front way that they can see and abuse. It wouldn't have hurt them to do their own thing while the two of you had a little couple time. I don't even think it was really about the kids. It was about your W wanting to be continuously with the kids - not about what they wanted or needed but about what she wanted and thought she needed. That's my read on it.

Good luck to you in your recovery.

-AD

<small>[ June 30, 2002, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Mike,<p>I wonder how much of the problem was the kids and how much was the affair.<p>I know that I am sometimes guilty of spoiling my daughter and leaving my husband out in the cold. I buy her tons of things and hardly anything for him...but then again he doesn't outgrow all of his clothes every couple of months. Still...<p>It's a difficult thing to balance. And I'll be honest with you here even thought it sounds so selfish. One of the things I looked for in both of my husbands was that they were 'showroom' new...no ex-wives, no stepkids. Not a problem at 20 (like most other things [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ) but it was a little more difficult to find someone unattached when I was 38. I've been very lucky.<p>I think you're just gonna have to Plan A the best you can---take care of yourself, love the kids as much as she will let you--send them cards and letters at her family's address..maybe they will send them on---and learn to live on your own.<p>Good luck.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts. Maybe I'm not so bad after all [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Zorweb, W was married for eight years her first time. During that time she separated with her EX twice before divorcing him. She told me was physicially abusive towards her and the kids and stayed out to all hours of the night whenever he pleased. She said he never could keep a steady job as well.<p>I've met this man and although he does seem somewhat neglectful, he certainly does not seem to be an abuser, at least physically. <p>I always wanted to ask W if her EX was abusive, why did she let the kids spend weekends with him, unsupervised, every two weeks, but I never did.<p>She was divorced three years when we met. She was serious with someone for several months inbetween that but it was a sexual relationship for the most part.

AbandonedDad<p>I sure feel like I've been had. I gave her and the girls a LOT, not just during our short M, but before as well. I'm not just talking about financial support or material things either. I gave them every waking minute I had. Like I said, when W wanted a break from the kids I was happy to take them somewhere, it wasn't a chore for me even if I was dead tired after a day at work, I enjoyed it immensely.<p>I feel I did my part to the best of my ability and to be honest with you, yes I feel I've been had [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]

what you are experiencing is the norm rather than the exception in stepfamilies. Dr. Laura Schlessinger has said repeatedly that in a conflict that involves a parent, his/her biological children, and the stepparent, the parent will chose his/her biological children over the new spouse.
Bingo!<p>If you do NOT want to be second in someones life, do not get involved with someone with children. If you do, then you can expect situation such as this to happen.