Stillwaiting,<p>Heading to blow dry my hair and then I'm going to run t town to the christian bookstore to see if they have a couple of the books I've seen mentioned on here. Also want a little easier Bible to read than the one I have now. Will be back on later this afternoon!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Look Betrayed, I'm not trying to pick a fight here. But you are doing exactly the opposite of what we here at MB try to practice in our lives.<p>A disrespectful judgement occurs whenever we try to impose our values and morals on another person. <p>I agree with you that adultery is sinful.<p>However, my H saw it differently, and so does yours.<p>YOU can live your life as you see fit, in accordance with God's law. You don't get to make selfish demands that your H change to meet your superior moral values.<p>Forgiving him, when he hasn't asked for it, is the height of disrespectful judgements, because it assumes that he thinks he has done something wrong.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BrambleRose:
<strong>you are doing exactly the opposite of what we here at MB try to practice in our lives.<p>A disrespectful judgement occurs whenever we try to impose our values and morals on another person.
Forgiving him, when he hasn't asked for it, is the height of disrespectful judgements, because it assumes that he thinks he has done something wrong.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hmmm, BR, I usually can agree with your sage, wise words to posters, but in this case, I think YOU are missing the mark!<p>After you posted the first time to BA, I went back and re-read her post, to see the "disrespectful judgement" you spoke of. I couldn't find it. I understand about asking him for "forgiveness" when he thinks he's done nothing wrong. BUT, we are not in their life, so we don't KNOW that he actually feels that "he's done nothing wrong to need forgiveness." He might be thinking it, but still running away from those thoughts.<p>Secondly, I also feel that if God has led BA to write these things to her H, then the Lord will use them to convict him. I believe that God "works in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform" using whatever tools HE chooses. Sometimes, we have no idea how something can be used by God to perform a miracle!<p>OK, so it sounds like I'm totally "in BA's corner." Actually, BA, I'd like to address the rest of this post to YOU! You see, a couple of months ago, I also said some things to my WH. I had prayed about it, asked God to show me a sign of when and what to say....well, the time came! I KNEW God was telling me to say the things that came out of my mouth (It was essentially the same kind of stuff you told yours).<p>How did it go over? Well, not good. Not good at all. He got angry. Do I *believe* I was supposed to do this, but really I wasn't? I don't think so. There's been NO change in his actions because of what I told him, as of yet. BUT as sure as I know GOD IS GOOD, and loves me, and wants to heal ALL broken M's, I believe with all my heart that God wanted me to say what I said. Would I do it again? Probably not a second time, although I wouldn't take back the opportunity I had to say it the first time.<p>I still believe God is going to bring back to his memory all that I said to him, at His appointed time, so technically, I don't regret saying anything I said. However, I wouldn't encourage doing this too often, either! (Once was probably enough) It surely didn't bring WH to his knees, totally repentent and eager to come back to my *wonderful* - forgiving arms!!<p>Of course, that's NOT why I told him what I told him!! I did it b/c I know God has "other plans" for his life than the one he's now following, and I felt led by God to point things out to him...things about how he is living his life, and ignoring God's prompting. I also have peace about having done this. But I will NOT do it again until he is ready to listen.<p>It may not have been "pure" MB, but ya know what? The Harleys are NOT perfect, and their plan not the only one. God has brought back from the "pit" many WS's in His own extraordinary ways. "Preaching" from God's Word isn't the worse thing a BS can do!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hang in there, BA. I'm with ya!!! God IS at work!!!

lupolady,<p>Thanks for your kind words. I "AGREE" so much with what you wrote. Yes, I felt GOD told me to send this to my WH. It has been the only letter like this I have sent. <p>I was in Wal-Mart the other day in the book section and "Power Of A Praying Husband" jumped out at me. My head was a blur, trying to go thru all the titles and "WHAM", there was the book. I had no intentions of buying it nor was it one that I was looking for. I picked it up, looked through it and put it back on the shelf. I went on through the store getting other items but that book kept popping up in my mind. I went back and picked it back up and I bought it. I clearly believe GOD led me to it and kept after me until I listened. The book is right here beside me. Even though I feel GOD led me to the book, I have not felt GOD'S leading to do anything with it. I will put the book up for safe keeping until GOD shows me what to do with it and when. <p>One thing I do is PRAY before I write any e-mails to my WH. I re-read them and PRAY about them. I clearly feel in "my spirit" whether or not to send them or where I need to re-word or change something. Sometimes, I am just flat told "DON'T SEND THAT"! And I don't. I haven't been moved to send any since that letter so I haven't.<p>I DO NOT regret sending it, I feel there was a "reason". WH probably didn't take it well (if he even read it) but I did what I felt guided to do. <p>My other recent e-mails have been using MB methods. I believe and think MB principals are "GREAT" and I agree with them, however GOD is the one I listen to and put my "FAITH & TRUST IN"!<p>Bramble Rose,<p>You certainly have not offended me in anyway. I respect your opinion and input as I do everyone else's. I chalk "differences" up to different places we are at and only "WE" know our own situations completely, you know?<p>When I feel GOD is showing me an answer or leading me in a particular area, then I DO NOT question him. That DOES NOT mean your advice is less important or anyone else's, just that GOD is my main "GUIDE".<p>Even I will probably never know how this e-mail did or didn't affect my wayward husband but it is now up to GOD to use it how he so chooses and on his time table.<p>Peace and Hugs to all and no hard feelings of any kind on this end
[img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

BrambleRose,<p>Another thought popped in my mind as I posted last response.<p>If my WH doesn't think he is doing anything wrong, why did he clearly tell me this a few months ago in regard to his realtionship with "OW":<p>Me: You wouldn't tolerate this behavior from me and I certainly wouldn't get a "second chance".<p>WH: NO I wouldn't and NO you wouldn't!<p>Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

Betrayed.....answering your question first. Would a letter like this have helped me? yes. But my PA's were one time things but seeing scripture might have made me think harder about it. I had other things fogging my brain at the time so I don't know for sure if it would have prevented it but I am a christian so I would like to think it would have.<p> I think you are doing all the right things myself. The main thing is to pray about everything before you do it and God will tell you whether to do it or not. I think if you have Gods attitude and follow his principals of lovingness, kindness, forgiveness etc. God will guide you in such situations. The main thing is if it doesn't feel right then pray about it then follow what God puts on your heart.<p> I am in a different boat than you but we are hopefully heading in the same direction. My wife gave me other chances but I blew it. I have discovered several things about myself since then and have been a regular on marriage builders. I know what kind of guy I am and what kind of marriage I had( I had one of the best marriages I know of) without all the crap in my life so I know God will put my wife and I back together again someday.<p> Do you know about www.rejoiceministries.org website? It is a great website for people who refuse to give up there marriages to satan. You can see lots of peoples testimonies as to how God restored there marriages no matter what the circumstances. I am Going to my first study tomorrow nite. The main thing is to never give up because God never intended for divorce as we have seen through scripture. <p> So as a WS talking to a BS, never give up no matter who or what tells you too. God will work on our hearts and we will see just how wrong we were to go against what God put together.<p> Love in Christ,<p> cajunky<p>[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: cajunky ]</p>

cajunky,<p>"BLESS YOUR EVER LOVING HEART"! Yes I have been to rejoice ministries site and that is alot of where I am coming from. I even sent my WH the "Standers Affirmation".<p>The one thing I have really been "whipped" over by GOD these past 3 weeks, is how I seem to turn to him in times of trouble and forget him when things are going pretty good. This is what I basically did during the 1 1/2 years that I believed "OW" was gone and WH and I seemed to be progressing. God needs us to lean on him through the good and the bad times. He loves it when we thank him and praise him. This lady isn't going to let him down this time.<p>I have asked him to come into my heart, soul, body and spirit. I asked him to take over my life and I've told him "I'm your's"! I have also placed my WH in his loving hands, as well as our marriage! I believe that he will grant me the desires of my heart for "that is according to his plans, promises and will". It is GOD'S desire that marraiges last, rebuild, heal, reconcile. GOD'S will that husband and wife live together. Well that is my heart's desire too. To have my WH back, rebuild, reconcile and "thrive" as GOD originally intended us to. I desire that one day our marriage becomes a ministry or testament to all who have already chalked us up as a "lost cause". I desire that our marriage be an example of GOD'S great love, forgiveness, power and promises, if we simply TRUST IN HIM and ASK HIM INTO our lives and marriage. I have also asked GOD to HEAD our marriage, not jus be the center of it. I want GOD to lead us as a couple and as individuals in our walk with him.<p>My WH is a "beautiful man", who just isn't doing beautiful things right now. I fell in love with a "GOOD MAN" and I believe that man is being held captive and is being mis-lead by satan right now. I am no longer angry with WH, I am angry at satan for his interference and influence. I have even been praying for the "OW". Now that's something huh?<p>I am not giving up on my WH not now, not ever. Divorce is not an option for this lady, however I realize that I cannot stop WH if he chooses that route. I have asked GOD, in Jesus name, through the power of the holy spirit, to bind him from any thoughts,actions or encouragement in doing so.<p>I have also asked GOD to bind WH from taking any further steps to seperate us further by removing what's left of his things from our home and etc.<p>So far, all of this has been answered. You know what's really neat? Since turning this over to GOD, I really don't feel the overwhelming urge to go "spy" or try to find him. Once in a while, yes, I am tempted, but I don't do it.<p>I really believe that GOD will deal with my WH. And I have asked God to make the changes in me that he feels I need. Asked him to make me the kind of wife that he wants me to be, kind of wife that my WH needs me to be and kind of wife I want to be.<p>I know this is going to be a long haul......but I really believe that my WH will be back, will be the man and even better than the one that left. Yes, I realize that it will require "work" from both of us.<p>Isn't it wierd how we are tagged as being in denial, obsessed and etc. because we are comitted to our vows, marraige and we "WALK IN FAITH WITH GOD"? How fast everyone around us states "I wouldn't even put up with this". Just divorce the blank-blank and get on with your life. Mind-blowing huh?<p>MB principals are good, that's why I am here but GOD is GOD. "He's my guide". I feel that he led me to MB to learn things, yet he is reminding me that he is the ultimate ruler.<p>GOD BLESS and STAY IN TOUCH!!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: BetrayedAgain ]</p>

Lying
"If you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth."
James 3:14
<p>
Hate
"Hatred stirs up strife, but love covers all transgressions."
Proverbs 10:12
<p>
Repent
"For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death."
2 Corinthians 7:10

"I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance."
Luke 15:7
<p>
Love
"Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."
Romans 13:10

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you."
Ephesians 4:31-32

"Anxiety in a man's heart weighs it down, but a good word makes it glad."
Proverbs 12:25
<p>Salvation
"Let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water."
Hebrews 10:22
<p>Hope
"The LORD also will be a stronghold for the oppressed, a stronghold in times of trouble."
Psalm 9:9
<p>Realization and Thanksgiving
"The LORD reigns, let the peoples tremble; He is enthroned above the cherubim, let the earth shake!"
Psalm 99:1

"For it is written, 'As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God.'"
Romans 14:11

Betrayedagain and cajunky,
I can't tell you how thrilled I am to hear others speak and believe as I do. I am going to check out the website mentioned above in cajunky's reply after I reply. I am overwhelmed at reading my own words from others. God has been so good to me and always giving me renewed hope no matter how long the wait. I know i am to pray for my H, although at times it is not easy because of the sadness it does bring to think about him. But reading your posts have given me the renewal I need to do so. I have felt so alone in this wait for so long, until I came to this site. I never knew there were so many people believing in their marriages, as around me personally there are so few, and I am always the encourager to those who are wanting to end their marriages. I know that there have been many people and probably still are, that think I'm off my rocker, but they have not had the experiences with God as I have. Even some Christians I know will ask me if I am seeing anyone, excuse me, but I don't think so? Do they not hear when I speak about God's love and faithfulness? I have a ministry in music, and whenever I do a concert I share in my testimony about my marriage, and the awesome signs God has given me, I know that it has encouraged many, but oh how fast they forget! I am so pleased to know that I can share in my testimony that I am not alone in this. If I may, I would like to quote some of you, read to them some of your posts to show people that there is more hope out there than we realize!
A friend of mine has written a song for me to sing, it really my life, and it is called "I Will Wait On You" I will get her permission and then post it, I'm sure you will be blessed and encouraged! It is powerful.
Thankyou again for the renewed hope I have received today, and the tears I once again shed over this, it is always good to do so! I thank God for this site, and look forward to many chats!
I will keep you all in my prayers as well, and look forward to the restoration of all these marriages,
One more thing I wish to share, I shared in another post, a line in a song by Garth Brooks, that encouraged me right in the middle of a doubtful time. The song "The Change" the line is:
"AS long as one heart still holds on, hope is never really gone......"
Blessing to you!

This was the first thing that I got from rejoice ministies through e-mail. I was really asking myself "God, look what I have done to my family how in the world can or will you fix this". This is no lie, the very next day I got this and I cried when I read it because God had led me to this website through friends, now he was telling me it could be done no matter what.<p>
HOPE IN THE MIDST OF AFFLICTION<p> “I remember my affliction and my wandering, the bitterness and the
gall. I well remember them, and my soul is downcast within me. Yet
this I call to mind and therefore I have hope: Because of the
Lord’s great love we are not consumed, for his compassions never
fail. They are new every morning; great is your faithfulness. I
say to myself, ‘The Lord is my portion; therefore I will wait for
him.’ The Lord is good to those whose hope is in him, to the one
who seeks him; it is good to wait quietly for the salvation of the
Lord.”
Lamentations 3:22-23<p>The prophet Jeremiah is lamenting the defeat of Judah by the Babylon-
ians. The once great city of Jerusalem sits in ruins, the temple has
been destroyed, and captives taken away to Babylon. Jeremiah’s tears
were not only for the suffering and humiliation of the people but also
because God had rejected His people for their rebellious ways. The
great nation of Judah lies in ruins because of their stubborn sinful-
ness.<p>In the midst of the sin and destruction surrounding him, Jeremiah saw
one ray of hope, “Because of the Lord’s great love we are not consum-
ed, for his compassions never fail.” Jeremiah knew of God’s faithful-
ness from personal experience. God had promised punishment would fol-
low disobedience and it did when He allowed Judah to be destroyed by
the godless nation of Babylon. But God also promised restoration and
blessings. Jeremiah knew that God would honor that promise too. Like
Jeremiah, by trusting in God’s faithfulness day by day, we can be con-
fident of God’s great promises for the future.<p>Sin and disobedience has entered your family. Your once great marriage
lies in ruins. Your spouse has been taken captive to the enemy’s camp.
This horrible scene could have been avoided. As Jeremiah had warned
the people of Judah that this day of destruction would come, your
heart too is breaking to see it fulfilled. Sin causes great sorrow to
many innocent bystanders. God’s steadfast love and mercy are greater
than any sin and He promises forgiveness. God willingly responds to
our call for help, “The Lord is good to those whose hope is in him, to
the one who seeks him; it is good to wait quietly for the salvation of
the Lord.”<p>In Jeremiah’s darkest hour, his hope was strengthened by this promise.
God had been faithful in the past and would continue to do so in the
future. Jeremiah saw not only God’s judgment but also His steadfast
love. In the time of judgment, Jeremiah could still cling to the hope
of God’s love for His people. In the midst of the destruction of your
family, God still loves you. In spite of whatever sin may have entered
your home, God can and will forgive it when you earnestly seek Him. As
Jeremiah prayed for the salvation of a sinful nation, you too are
called to intercede for the sinfulness of your spouse. Because of your
faithfulness and trust in God the Father, He will rebuild what was de-
stroyed and heal the hurts caused by sin.<p> “‘For I know the plans I have for you,’ declares the Lord, ‘plans
to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a
future. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I
will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me
with all your heart. I will be found by you,’ declares the Lord,
‘and will bring you back from captivity. I will gather you from all
the nations and places where I have banished you,’ declares the
Lord, ‘and will bring you back to the place from which I carried
you into exile.’”
Jeremiah 29:11-14<p>God did not forget the people of Judah, even though they were held
captive in Babylon. He promised to give them a new beginning. In times
of deep trouble, it is easy to think that God has abandoned us. But
God has not forgotten us. He is preparing us for a new beginning with
Christ at the center.<p>Thank God today for His faithfulness in the midst of destruction. Lean
on His promise to “prosper you” and “give you hope and a future.” God
loves us far too much to let sin rule in His children’s lives. God
tears down the old so that He can build up the new. God is driving out
the sin from your marriage and He will rebuild it in all its splendor.
Trust in God and He will do this for you. Earnestly seek Him with all
your heart. God the Father loves you and your spouse far too much to
leave you as you were. He will rebuild what was destroyed. He will
lift you up from the pit of divorce and restore you to your rightful
place. His loving grace is never-ending.<p> “‘Nevertheless, I will bring health and healing to it; I will heal
my people and will let them enjoy abundant peace and security. I
will bring Judah and Israel back from captivity and will rebuild
them as they were before. I will cleanse them from all the sin they
have committed against me and will forgive all their sins of re-
bellion against me. Then this city will bring me renown, joy,
praise and honor before all nations on earth that hear of all the
good things I do for it; and they will be in awe and will tremble
at the abundant prosperity and peace I provide for it.’”
Jeremiah 33:6-9<p> “This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘You say about this place,
“It is a desolate waste without men or animals.” Yet in the towns
of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem that are deserted, inhabited
by neither men nor animals, there will be heard once more the
sounds of joy and gladness, the voices of bride and bridegroom,
and the voices of those who bring thank offerings to the house of
the Lord, saying, “Give thanks to the Lord Almighty, for the Lord
is good; his love endures forever.” For I will restore the fort-
unes of the land as they were before,’ says the Lord.’”
Jeremiah 33:10-11<p>God’s promises for the nation Judah hold true for you today. God is
ready to answer your prayers; step out in faith by asking for His
assistance. By seeking God’s help, we acknowledge that He alone can
accomplish the healing that needs to take place in our homes. Humble
yourself and seek God, setting aside all fear and worry. Obey Him in
all of His commands. God will restore what was destroyed!<p> “For I will restore their fortunes and have compassion on them.”
Jeremiah 33:26<p>Great is thy faithfulness! All glory, honor and praise are yours,
Almighty God and Father!<p> Just pray and believe....<p> Love in Christ
cajunky

StillWaiting,<p>(((((HUGS TO YOU))))).<p>My gosh, this has been a 3 year battle and I see yours has been 6. <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> <p>My wayward husband has never lived with "OW" to best of my knowledge. He cut me off and out 4/26/02 and I haven't a clue where he is. He may be living with her now, but I really doubt it. "OW" is about 110 miles one way from me and our home. And about 60 miles one way from where WH (was) working. He lost his job 4/22/02 and I have not seen him since Christmas 2001 or spoken to him since 4/26/02. Last phone conversation he was very angry, irrate, dis-respectful and etc. Probably because I found out about "OW" still in picture and then he lost his job and etc. "A" must not be all that "great" or he wouldn't be angry and he'd be "relieved" I knew and he wouldn't care right? Well he is "VERY ANGRY" at the people who told me and apparently me for believing them.<p>I will never encourage anyone to end their marriage nor will I cast judgement on their decision to do so, as that is between them and GOD. And they walk in their shoes, not me.<p>When my WH and I first seperated, there were (2) male co-worker's of mine, whom left their wives. They spent allot of time over here and we talked endless hours. Getting each other's views, which gave understanding to opposite gender's way of thinking. I want to stress that we were/are "PLATONIC" friends and co-worker's (brother-sister) type relationship and no sexual attraction type of thing at all. Emotional attachments yes, but not out of context or a threat to any of our marriages, quite the opposite. We depend on each other for our lives on duty. That makes you very "protective" on duty and off duty. (Law Enforcement).<p>I was their BS/BW "best friend" let me tell you! They saw my pain as a BS/BW, and they had "betrayed" their wives, so they knew through me, what they had done to their wives. I in turn, got insight into my WH husband's thinking, through them because they were the WS/WH's. It really was bizarre but I was "lucky" to have their honesty and friendship and vice-versa. (So were/are their spouses and mine).<p>The one marriage ended and male friend/former co-worker is now remarried. I have not seen or spoken to him in about 2 years. He transfered and latered remarried a woman (not the "OW"). Wherever he is at, I wish him happiness, we just simply lost touch. I still work with his brother and we get along well. No hard feelings on either part's.<p>The other friend, "I finally broke him", sitting at my counter about 3 or 4 am, one "Sunday" morning. I finally got him to break down and cry, he admitted that he still loved his wife, that what he was doing was "WRONG" and he did not want the divorce, (His Wife filed). It was from my house, with my encouragement that he called her and she agreed to meet him the next morning.<p>The outcome? They talked, about a month later he moved back home, she dropped the divorce and they are still together!!!!! And they are "HAPPY". I talk to him all the time and I talk to her. I consider them "BOTH" my friends. Wife has NO IDEA, "not really", that I was her "best friend" and instrumental (ALONG WITH GOD) in breaking him out of his fog. He severed ALL TIES with "OW" and has never made contact. A 16 year old girl still has her "mom & dad". He is still here for me and he is watching out for me now, yes, he is one of my sources (trusted sources). <p>In spite of my WH behavior the past 3 years and the fact my WH hates and cuts this man down.......my male (platonic friend, my brother in christ and line of duty), has never once encouraged me to divorce nor has he belittled my WH in any way. "He has done quite the opposite", he encourages me that "his gut feeling is my WH really does love me and will return". He also supports my walk with GOD. He also knows the "OW" and we just won't go there on his opinion of her, as it is very "un-christian". I might add that this is the same man/friend/brother whom has saved me from harm in the line of duty, numerous times and vice-versa. The "greatest gift" I've ever given him, was my "determination" to break him in a sisterly, "christian love" way, and to tromp that male pride of his (and not in a manipulative or destroying way). I got him to set his pride, anger, hurt, shame, guilt aside and go to his wife. I am so "proud of them both"! And i am ssssoooooo "HAPPY FOR THEM"!<p>I am a huge advocate for the marriage vows and covenant. I just wish, my WH had someone in his life doing the same for me, but he doesn't. All he has is the "OW" and we all know what her motives and goals are. That is why I have placed all in "GOD'S HANDS".<p>"I am proud of you StillWaiting", your strength, determination, your committment to your marraige, yourself, your WH and especially to "GOD". I admire you! I only know how rough 3 years has been on me but "WOW" your double that on me!<p>Feel free to use whatever you want of my posts. I know that my struggle contributed to the reconciliation of at least (1) marriage. I sure hope mine will reconcile soon. I really miss him, need and want my WH. I have truly forgiven him and I deeply love him, that includes "In love with him". I have never fallen out of love with him. Just simply haven't liked his 3 year and continued behavior. I know this is nt of my WH. I know he is being held captive by satan.<p>I do truly believe that "true forgiveness is devineness". And can only be found through and in our walk with "GOD".<p>Thanks for your posts and "GOD BLESS"! Don't be a "stranger"........ [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Hey there "cajunky",<p>So as a WS talking to a BS, never give up no matter who or what tells you too. God will work on our hearts and we will see just how wrong we were to go against what God put together.<p>Thank you so very much and i do "AGREE FULLY"!<p>Thank you for your post on that e-mail you recieved. WOW...now there's alot of truth and hope there, isn't here!!!!<p>Keep posting as we need your kind of "encouragement and honesty around here"! I will be watching for you!<p>echo!<p>Keep those bible verses a coming!!!!!!!!!!!<p>(HUGS TO ALL) [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks to both of you for the encouragement.
I know how hard the first three years were, but it has gotten better, I do however go through some dark times now and then, but the Lord always brings me back to a place of peace and hope.
I really didn't even feel very lonely for the longest time, but late last summer, boy did it hit me, I went through a real dark time, ready to give up, but the Lord showed me through songs and His Word, to hang in there. I had really never heard of a covenant marriage before then, I may have but it didn't really sink in , know what I mean? But it was such an awesome time, I was really questioning my belief in holding on, when I was truly led by the Lord to listen to a program on Focus on the Family, and they talked about the 'covenant M" wow I was floored and renewed and strengthened once again. the Lord spoke directly to me through the man on the radio, what a sob session that was! A good one though!
The Lord has so blessed me these past 7 years, I am surrounded by children all the time, as I teach singing as well. The only time I get down is when I am alone too much, and so now I know not to let that happen. I am so happy in the Lord, and know that my Maker is my Husband, and that He is in control!
Keep strong yourself there BA, you really have the truth and stand on it, it's awesome!
Cajunky, it's good to hear from someone who was once in the WH shoes. I know I will hear him speak as you do some day!
God Bless and keep you all....

Ok, I have a little more time - let me respond more thoroughly. I'm going to be pretty rough on you - please understand that I am not saying ANYTHING below with the intention to hurt you. I am saying these things with the hope that you will learn something from self-reflection that will help you save your marriage.<p>Betrayed - I am a very religious person and always have been. And it nearly destroyed my marriage - NOT because my beliefs or faith was wrong, but because of the way I lived it and shoved it down others throats - most especially my husband. You mentioned on another thread that your H called you controlling - and yet you completely discounted him. You are so busy being RIGHT and morally superior that you are ignoring that MAYBE your own actions have added to the situation! Let me tell you something - I was controlling too. I had God on MY side and I was right and I knew all the right moral answers and therefore I had the RIGHT to straighten out my husband whenever he "fell" (in MY most perfect judgement) from the right path. If someone would have said, BR, you are controlling, I would have responded, NO I'm not, I'm right, I'm doing what God wants me too! I didn't have a clue that just how disrespectful, controlling and selfish that I had been - I was too busy being morally righteous.<p>Now, I don't know you, so I can only address what I see in your thread. And I can tell you that I see alot of the very same things in you that nearly destroyed my marriage.<p>Now, you can argue with me about this, its YOUR right to disagree. But I want to point out that your husband is running the opposite way right now, while mine is home with me and the kids. MY way of dealing with this worked. Your way has never worked (although it has been tried countless times), not that I have seen on these boards, although obviously I could be wrong. If you honestly think that this is what will bring your husband home, by all means try it. <p>I didn't get him home by preaching at him. I got him home by stopping the constant moral reminders, the judgements and the demands that he change to suit my superior moral position.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>GOD loves you, forgives you, will never leave, fail or betray you. Just reach for him.<hr></blockquote><p>This is a major LB - it's called educating your husband. He didn't ASK you what you thought about God's take on his life. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Your wife is here husband, she loves you, forgives you (even for the unknown of these past 3 years). She is here waiting for you and praying for you to be reconciled with GOD first
and then GOD will heal, reconcile us and we'll be "What he wanted us to be all along". <hr></blockquote><p>So now you are telling him that he has to get straightened out with God before you'll take him back. (selfish demand) You are assuming that he believes he NEEDS to reconcile with God. (disrespectful judgement) Maybe the God of your husband's understanding doesn't have a problem with his behavior! And maybe...the God of your husband's understanding doesn't have a plan for your reconciliation. <p>What my point is here is that YOU DON'T KNOW the state of your husband's soul or his relationship with God, or his conscience or anything else. <p>But you seem to have decided FOR HIM what is best for him. You have set yourself up in a state of moral superiority - YOU know God's plans, YOU know the answers for your situation, and YOU know what the answers are for your husband, and you haven't consulted your husband in this! (I'll even go so far as to say that I don't think you've really consulted God either - I think you've consulted your fear and your self-will) This is very disrespectful, selfish and controlling. The pride and arrogance in assuming that YOU have the answers and the knowledge that your husband just needs to capitulate to is probably exactly what is sending him running the other way.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>TRUST ME "HUSBAND".......I am not setting you up for a false hope or fall here.<hr></blockquote><p>ie, Listen to me, do what I say, I have all the answers, and smart, moral, ME will guide you back into the light. Don't think, don't feel, don't disagree, just TRUST ME. Do you see how disrespectful and selfish this is?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I know that we can still have "US and the marriage we wanted and needed, that God wanted for US. "SATAN bomb-barded us through LIFE'S Pressures, demands and circumstances consistently hitting us". Everything of Satan is what came out of us, the fighting, the anger, built of frustration, the sense of hopelessness............EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!! <hr></blockquote><p>Satan is the Father of Lies - right? Don't you think he can use a few half truths, and a few human defects of character to twist us oh so subtley to doing that what would harm us?<p>If God's plan and will is for your marriage to be saved....and yet you are feeling an urge to do something that will harm your marriage...because you feel morally right...are you SURE it's God...and not Satan?<p>God's will is usually worked out through humility. By saying: I'm going to be guided by others with more knowledge, I'm goign to pray for the willingness to become willing to accept God's will NO MATTER what it is" and then acting in humble obedience to others with the motivation and intention of acting out God's will - you will find the answers present themselves and beautiful things unfold before you.<p>BUT - if you arrogantly and pridefully assume that you absolutely know God's will and God's answers not just for yourself but for your husband and for your marriage - don't you wonder where source of this "knowledge" is?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I am going to fight Satan to the fires of hell for you, for me, for our love (YES, IT'S THERE BUT SATAN IS TRYING TO FINISH IT OFF IN BOTH OF US)...............<hr></blockquote><p>I don't know about you, but I'm not big enough, smart enough, or powerful enough to fight Satan. I am small enough however to seek God's protection, to obey His will for me, and to leave Satan for God to deal with.<p>And you also discount your husband's feelings. You alone seem to know that your love is still there. I'd bet that your husband doesn't love you right now. But instead of trying to understand why or looking for acceptance, you are totally denying the reality of his emotions. How very disrespectful!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>GOD & ME are believing in you and we'll fight to the finish because "YOU DESERVE BOTH OF US!!!!!! <hr></blockquote><p>Well, now that you have put yourself up there on a pedastal with God, how could your poor bad husband ever hope to be able to feel worthy in your presence?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You are a "BEAUTIFUL MAN, HUSBAND AND CHILD OF GOD". Evil and Satan CANNOT HAVE YOU!!!!!! <hr></blockquote><p>Sorry, evil and Satan CAN have your husband - through your husband's free choice. You can not make your husband's choices for him.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>We got "attacked" because we were strong "together" and that is a "threat to Satan".<hr></blockquote><p>Again, I'm really not trying to maliciously hurt you - but when I read this, I just had to laugh out loud. Every BS on here complains about the fact that the WS never takes responsibility for their actions. Well you seem to be right out there in the fog with the WSes. You are blaming your husband's affair because your marriage was so strong???? What a fantastic excuse not to be responsible for assisting in creating an environment where your husband's unmet needs -which YOU were responsible for meeting - left him vulnerable to an affair.<p>How about apologizing to your husband for your actions that did not protect him - and left him vulnerable? Instead you are pointing at the devil and screaming "He did it!"<p>It's my own personal belief (and I do belief in an actual, existing devil) that human beings do most of the evil and harm in the world through their own choices, without any help from Satan.<p>But he's a lovely excuse to avoid responsiblity isn't he?<p>Let me point out that not only are you completely ignoring YOUR responsibility, but you are also completely letting your husband off the hook. No accountability for him either - geez, your marriage was just so strong and holy that Satan made him do it - and there you are, lovely and morally righteous, waiting for him to see the light.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>(NO Code 13's "Escape" HUSBAND), NO DIVORCE EITHER.......... Satan used evil to separate us to "WEAKEN AND DESTROY US" and he's using all his evil influences to keep us separated. I choose Jesus Christ and I choose our marriage.<hr></blockquote><p>The fact and reality of the matter is that if your husband really wants a divorce, he can get one. You can tell him until you are blue in the face about the immorality of divorce, but if he chooses one, he can get one.<p>It takes TWO to have a marriage. If your husband doesn't freely choose to be with you, all of your choosing will be in vain (from the perspective of saving THIS marriage - it won't be in vain in other aspects).<p>Until you learn to respect your husbands choices as HIS choices - regardless of your agreement with those choices, I sincerely doubt he is going to be open to any possiblity of coming home again.<p>Please do some thinking on this. Don't be so quick to decide that its ok to break the MB rules for surviving an affair because God wanted you to do so. The princples here are proven and tested on countless marriages that have been saved. I don't think God works through arrogance, He works through humility.

BrambleRose,<p>No offense taken, however. You know very little about me and my situation. You also know nothing of private conversations my WH and I have had. Or what he may or may not have asked me about.<p>God's word is just that "GOD'S" word. <p>We are at different levels here and you are entitled to your opinions. I don't happen to agree with your way of thinking but that's "OK". We are both entitled to them right?<p>I wish you the best in your marriage and I'm happy your husband is with you. The fact that mine isn't right now, really wasn't becoming of you to say. I will handle mine the way I feel I'm being led to.<p>This marriage is between my WH, me and GOD.<p>If I handled things as you, this marriage would already be over for us. Marriages and the individuals involved are unique and different.<p>What may work for one, may destroy another.<p>If I remember correctly even Steve Harley addressed that. He certainly has seen plenty.<p>MB principals are "GREAT" but they also have room for adjustment to the individuals in each marriage.<p>Have a Blessed Weekend, I will and already am.<p>
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You know very little about me and my situation. You also know nothing of private conversations my WH and I have had. Or what he may or may not have asked me about.<hr></blockquote><p>No, I don't know alot about your specifics. And I don't know of what has happened privately btwn you and your husband. But I have been through a nightmare marriage that nearly ended in divorce, and was recovered. I have been on these boards for a year and a half, and I have rarely seen any situation that isn't generally pretty typical. There are a few with twists that do affect the situation, but for the most part, most its pretty generally the same.<p>Let me point out that your husband hasn't contacted you in a month. You didn't send this letter in the context of a question or request for advice from him. This is a disrespectful judgement. His actions specifically say that he doesn't want to hear from you, much less your advice.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>God's word is just that "GOD'S" word.<hr></blockquote><p>Hmm. Well, I'm a Catholic. I would be willing to bet that you and I probably have quite a few differences on exactly what God's word is.<p>You may think I am wrong about God's word...and I may think you are wrong about God's word.<p>We may agree in many circumstances too.<p>Does it matter? No, it doesn't. What matters is that *I* am solely responsible for answering to God for how I lived my life. I don't have to answer for how YOU lived your life. You have both the choice, and the responsiblity for your own life, choices, beliefs and actions. <p>Do you have the right to come into my life, and tell me what to believe and how to live my life?<p>No. Of course not. What I do and what I believe is private, between myself and God. He is my ultimate Judge.<p>So this is where that whole thing with Disrespectful Judgements creeps in. <p>Spouses do not have the right to do this to each other either. For you to insist that your husband agree and believe as you do because YOU know absolutely what God's word is - puts you in a place of disrespect.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I wish you the best in your marriage and I'm happy your husband is with you. The fact that mine isn't right now, really wasn't becoming of you to say. <hr></blockquote><p>Look, I'm sorry that you took offense at this. You clearly do not understand where I am coming from on. I was not gloating about this fact, I am simply pointing out that my methods have proven successful, and that yours have not. Again, I am NOT saying this with the intent to hurt, but with the intent to help you see things that may save your marriage. When you want to learn how to do something - do you ask someone who has failed at that objective, or do you seek out someone who has suceeded?<p>I find it interesting that out of all the responses you got on this thread, not one single person with a recovered marriage agreed with your actions regarding sending that letter.<p>The encouraging responses are all ones from marriages who are NOT recovered.<p>No, it's not a NICE thing to say. But it IS a realistic thing to say. I can be "nice" and refrain from saying what you might need to hear. <p>Would that help your marriage?<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>What may work for one, may destroy another.<p>If I remember correctly even Steve Harley addressed that. He certainly has seen plenty.<p>MB principals are "GREAT" but they also have room for adjustment to the individuals in each marriage.<hr></blockquote><p>Did you get Steve's advice to send this letter?<p>I very highly doubt it. I've counseled with Steve, have you?<p>Yes, the principals leave room for adjustment. What that means is that sometimes, Plan B is called for sooner than later, or even BEFORE plan A. It means that sometimes the BS is encouraged to confront the OP. It means that the manner in which the princples are implemented is sometimes different. WAT for example, was encouraged by Steve to maintain a very long Plan A due to his special circumstances. SinkingFast on the other hand, was sent to Plan B by Steve BEFORE doing plan A. Sometimes Plan B is never called for. Sometimes tough love techniques are applied with the Plan A. Sometimes they aren't. THATS what is meant by adjusting.<p>It doesn't mean that sometimes we "adjust" by using disrespectful judgements and selfish demands.<p>I can tell that you were very hurt by my previous response, and I am not happy to have caused you more pain that you are already in.<p>I am sure that this response has also hurt you. Again, I am not doing or saying these things with pleasure or with malicious intent. <p>I simply do wish for you to have a happily recovering marriage. The path to get there is very narrow, and easily missed with out others to help us on the way. <p>The things that I hated to hear the most, the things that upset me the most, during my husbands A were ALWAYS the things that I needed to hear.<p>I am glad your weekend is going well, so is mine.

BrambleRose,<p>I too am "Catholic". And the letter may or may not have been a mistake, who knows? It's done, it's sent. WH did ask about the versuses a couple months ago and I told him I wanted to re-look them up for accuracy.<p>One thing about my WH. He doesn't think or react like the "normal", never has. I have almost always found what did not work for most, usually worked for him. And now he's in this fog thing, it's really "tough".<p>Gotta get to work.<p>Have a good one

O.K. guys and girls I got a book from rejoice ministries today and I started reading it and it is great. It is "Standing for Gods Best" by Dennis Wingfield. It gives so much scripture about why we should stand up for our marriages and how God says through scripture that he hates divorce no matter what and he will help us persevere, help with our brokeness, fear, and worry. It is sooo uplifting to know God really wants our marriages to never die until death do us part no matter what.<p> It is so uplifting that I can't begin to tell you. Just buy it through the website. I think it is $7.00.<p> Hope you like it as much as I do.<p> Love in Christ<p> cajunky<p>[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: cajunky ]</p>

Hey guys, sory to interupt. Ive read most of what you all wrote.<p>My experience (and no I'm still separated) is that the times I have written letters similar to this I most definately got a big kick back from it. WH hated them even tho I tried so carefully and had others check them for me, to be gentle and loving.<p>I think your letter is great, I want to print it out for myself so it will remind 'me' of whats really going on during those difficult times. I wish I was able to send something as powerful as that to my WH but I know he will think I am being selfrighteous and hes sick of me trying to diagnose him. I'm not sure hes in the right frame of mind to recieve it anyway. <p>I fully thought the same way you do about being attacked because satan was threatened by us. Not sure where I stand 'today' on that idea tho. Im tending to agree with BR - I feel like it makes me sound like I was doing really well for the kingdom, when in fact, I was not honouring my most important ministry, my husband. Did you read the recent thread by Heartpain - Diagnosis and labels by BS? It puts another twist on things.<p>I'm really keen to stay in touch with you guys tho because I'm where yor at. Its only been 14months since WH left, so I admire yor comitment, Im all for it, going against what most people say to do. I'm fully into craig hills stuff too which is all about covenant keeping.<p>All I can suggest is go with what Gods told you and get intercessors to support you with this letter and its effects.<p>Dancer<p>[ May 26, 2002: Message edited by: Dancer ]</p>

Hiya all!<p>Hey, now of us are "perfect" you know? If we were, we wouldn't be here on this forum would we. I'm trying and I'm learning.Doesn't it just seem like sometimes no matter what we do or don't do, it's "wrong" in WS/BS eys anyway? <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> <p>I love you all for your support (even you BrambleRose). We may disagree on some things but I certainly don't disregard or disrespect your opinion. If I wasn't wanting to learn, get idea's from other's I wouldn't be here.<p>Well, I had a very "pleasant" suprise this morning. Some of the Officers and i are going to go see the movie "Enough" this afternoon. They are aware that I stay to myself, go home, go to work, go home, you all know the routine. And they know I won't go out alone where I can become vulnerable, so they asked me if I would feel more comfortabel going as a group of friends. I almost cried and of course I "ACCEPTED"! I haven't been to a show in 3 years........<p>It was between "Spiderman" or "Enough" and the guys gave into us gals so it's "Enough".<p>Really looking forward to this!!!! You all have a "GREAT SUNDAY" And stay SAFE!!!! Happy Memorial Day too! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]