Brief update before getting to the replies...<p>Another restless night for WW (and I). This morning, she was trying (I hope subconsciously) to push my buttons a bit - try to see how resolved I am - possibly goad me into backing down. I held firm. My mantra is "I love you, but I can't tolerate the situation any longer - it's endangering my love." She's heard this in about 10 different ways now, and I KNOW she gets it. She admitted she's angry with me now for doing this... I keep repeating my mantra. I now know why the MB way is to go from Plan A to B QUICKLY. (Mind you, I also know that this transition will be useful for me - got to pack and such after all.)<p>Basically, I see her talk with near absolute clarity in one minute, complete fog the next. I offered the "SKM Chronicles" post for her to read - and she did. She then said "maybe I should post my story" - !!! My impression is this... she's slowly trying to find a way - any way - to get this "better". At least that's what I hope.<p>Okay, responses...<p>>>> I'm not too excited about the "I started out as a child" approach, myself <<<<p>Neither am I... It turns out her revelations weren't anything I didn't already know... some physical abuse as a child. She admitted that she SUSPECTS some possible sexual abuse, but it's only a fear in the back of her mind... not sure how much stock to put in it, but I certainly listened, asked some questions, and tried to be there for her as she talked about it. She admitted I'm the only person (plus IC) she could talk to about this - not her family - or OM.<p>>>> you'd better be prepared for DV if she finds she likes being alone after all <<<<p>Yeah, it's possible... but I'm ready to accept THAT over this marital living death, combined with an active A. My giver has snapped and my dignity as slapped me silly. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>>>> Would she do that to keep you from moving? <<<<p>I've tried to make it clear to her the conditions required to stop this train - and that the conditions apply before and after I go. She even recited back what she perceives as necessary: 1. OM out of the picture, 2. she has to be committed to TRYING on the M... and all that entails.<p>>>> The door is always open, but the requirement is that the affair is over and she WANTS to work on the marriage. That is what you need to remember. <<<<p>As above, that's been reiterated to her, and she's spoken it back, so I know she understands.<p>>>> You see you are still not safe with her, and that is the issue here. YOUR SAFTEY with regards to your love bank. <<<<p>As a demonstration of her level of insecurity, she said this morning, "If you don't really love me, just tell me." I ONCE AGAIN reiterated that I do love her - that's the problem!! I love her too much to let it die.<p>>>> I don't really like to be hard line here, but it seems that she needs to see that you do have boundaries, and that these boundaries can only be crossed when she is willing to do what is necessary. <<<<p>Absolutely. This has been a trying time because she has been testing my resolve... but I'm holding perfectly firm - but loving. This period is torturous for both of us, but is necessary. In fact, I see some benefits - as her head clears a bit, I can provide some feedback related to talking to other ex-WS, etc. - something she roundly dismissed in the past, but is seriously considering now.<p>>>> Have some faith in yourself, if she really hated you and was sure OM was the best she would have been gone. You have more going for you than you realize. <<<<p>Oh I'm in a good state... My self-respect is strong, and I feel like I can go on with or without her. That's why I'm now okay with Plan B...<p>>>> if you cave now you're asking for trouble <<<<p>No intention of doing so. As I said, my boundaries are clear. It's easy for her to resolve this (from my perspective) - but I need some specific actions. Not going to compromise at all. She knows the score. Well... the game's over, actually.<p>>>> I would be willing to bet they would be for the move as well. <<<<p>It's been on the table for a while now... based on my love bank balance, mainly.<p>Don't worry H4F, I've never considered backing out of this... all I've been saying is that I need to be very, very TOUGH... but LOVING. I.e. Dr. Dobson meets Dr. Harley.<p>Thanks for the encouragement and kind words, everyone. I'm not super happy... but quietly confident.

She's a STUBBORN one, she is. Still testing you??? One would think she'd be kissing your butt. JL once said she sounds like a spoiled child...and these "tests" fall right along that line. I know, I have a 4 year old RIGHT HERE who does the same thing.<p>I think the real absence of the EN's you provide her will show her a nice big light through the fog about her "real feelings" in all of this.<p>I'm glad to hear your back to being strong and resolved. I know it sucks....but this wasn't YOUR first choice either.

JR. <p>You can not move to any plan unles you know where you stand. Plan A was to show that you are willing to make changes for yourself. When you can say been there done that and the WS is still out there in the A land. Then plan B is the next step. <p>Why? Because you have used up the usefulness of plan A. You can not be perfect (though the WS try to put a guilt trip on the BS when they are not). So you do the best you can then if the WS is still a WS and not a spouse, then you must go to the next level (plan B). To protect yourself from further pain. Not to teach anyone a lesson. Remember we are constantly reminded that no one can control or teach the WS anything. Fine work with that piece of stupid logic and remember that it now works both ways. The BS betters themself and moves on and the WS is left behind. <p>Now set your boundaries, stick to them. When she shows signs of progress be happy but not eager. If she is trying to 'tempt' her way back to your good graces, consider that a manipulation tactic and reject it as insincere. Then raise the stakes. <p>The onis is on her to win you back at this point, not the other way around. You have already identified and implemented your changes in plan A. Now she needs to prove she can plan A her way back to your heart. Don't be too eager to take her back tooo early. Otherwise the road to recovery will take longer. <p>Even when my H was at the OW's house crying (literally) and begging to come home with her yelling "take him, L" in the background I still sensed it was too early. He tried to threaten me that if he stayed longer he might like it. That is when I knew it was too early so his tears did not last. It was only after he knew that I knew he was bluffing and that I did not need him back that he realized he needed to work back to us. Not visa versa. <p>Each time after that when he would get sarcastic, I showed him the door and said remember that 'better place' you claimed to have had? Well they'll take you like this but I won't. So leave and maybe I'll think about letting you back. After a few of those, he changed his demeaner. Now he is more caring but knows he still has a ways to go. <p>Onwaards and upwards!<p>IMHO,
L.<p>[ May 25, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

J.R.:<p>"She then said "maybe I should post my story" - !!!"<p>I actually think this would be a very good thing for her to do. Think she was serious?<p>Was gone for a few days, there. How's it going?