My grandmother was abandoned by her husband with three small children. He was a drinker, I think a gambler and even went so far as to "shack up" with another woman when it was definitely not socially acceptable. He came back briefly only long enough to conceive the fourth child. My grandmother never divorced him although it would have allowed her some rights to support, instead, raising her family with grace and with the support of family members on just a teacher's salary. Anyone who knew her glowed praise and could not say a bad word about her (except, of course, my idiot grandfather who was in a permanent "fog" until the day he died. I hope he went to heaven - never met the man except in his coffin - but I'm guessing God sent him the other way!).<p>My aunt, her daughter, went through hell and back with her husband. He put her through hell during their marriage, seemingly intentionally when he was well and unintentionally when he was dying. <p>She told me "There was no way he would have gone this far for me." She was right. He wouldn't have. But she buried her husband knowing she had done right by her marital contract just as her mother did. Now, she has a full life and I would like to see her find love someday. I don't think she regrets it.<p>Now, would I take things as far as they did? Probably not. But it shows the commitment to marriage that one can look at and say, they did it without losing themselves. They became better people, I think, because of how they were tested in their marriage.<p>My brother points out to me that biblically speaking, I am justified both ways, to divorce my husband for his actions and also to forgive him. If I choose the latter I think I come out better. <p>I don't think it is cut and dried, black and white. Yes, you can kick them out and move on with your life and I started doing that. But marriages are hard to walk away from for a reason and I commend those that love and work on themselves as well as their spouses to better their marriage, their families and their world instead of giving up.

Wow Pepper, I'm going to have to let my brain munch on that a little while.<p>I will say that the fact that it's now out in the open should certainly HELP...no more secrecy. And the fact that you saw it! That's got to have an effect also! Mr. Pepper must realize how tuned in to him you really are!<p>I'll think a while and get back to you.

"Red Herring" = Lie<p>Watch out!<p>-AD

Mrs Pepper,<p>Ok, I've thunk many thunks on this. Keep in mind that I'm right in the thick of reading Passionate Marriage.<p>I would gather your main concern here is whether your husband would be vulnerable to another affair? We are all vulnerable to becoming attracted to another person. The trickiest part of that is that the ONLY way I know possible to avoid that is to simply cut oneself off from any possible contact with another living human being other than our family. Since that's rather drastic and unrealistic...there will always exist the chance that someone we meet might just "click" with us in ways our spouse does not.<p>What you hope is that you or your spouse, if found in that situation, will know enough not only to not act on that, but also to have a deeper understanding how that can and will happen. In other words...having been through this crap once before, he KNOWS the consequences as well as everything he learned that brought his focus BACK to your marriage.<p>Obviously there is never a guarantee to anything in life, but I think you're chances are pretty good that hubby knows better than to continue in this mutual admiration club. We all have "down" periods, or even just lulls in life. When someone unexpectadly pops into our life and we have a wonderful conversation that offers understanding and validation...gosh...it's hard not to want just a little more of that. But when you've been down addiction road, in any form...you know that "just a little more" can quickly lead to trouble.<p>It is disturbing that he wasn't honest with you in his reasoning for being uncomfortable there. It's a bit more disturbing WHY he WAS in fact uncomfortable being there? Guilt, perhaps? Possibly getting a feeling that these talks were edging on innappropriate?<p>He didn't, when directly asked, avoid the subject or deny what your observations. That's a good thing. It's off his chest and now maybe he can get it off his mind.<p>Your secondary fear, though, is what?<p>A couple of the things I've read recently come to mind. You feel you two have been sharing intimate moments...you feel a lot of closeness. Do you feel that with this new information the history of your recollections will be re-written? Do you feel "robbed" of a moment you felt something, now that you realize he may not have felt the same?<p>Similiarly, do you feel frustrated because as you are growing less attracted to other men and he does not seem to be reacting the same? Remember, you are both seperate people...and his development does not reflect on whether or not his love is just as deep for you.<p>If Mr Peppers actions and words say he is gaga over you...and he was honest and open enough to discuss this with you...then I would say you know him enough to KNOW how he feels. Things were much differently when he chose to decieve you, yes? Given this same situation he would never have opened up and been honest about his feelings, yes?<p>How has Mr Pepper been acting since your late night talk? Has he offered verbal or physical reassurances towards you? Has he distanced himself more? Or is everything kind of just like normal?

Not much time right now. Will answer at length later.<p>Thanks for responses.<p>Mr. Pepper has been happier and light of mood since our talk. Says he's "overwhelmed" with how much I love him .... ??? What does that mean? He says it means he finds it hard to believe anyone could love him this much......<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

WoW! GREAT response from Mr Pepper! It says to me that he's grateful you are there with him! I'm sure this takes a weight off of him. I know, sucks that the weight now shifts to YOU. He feels accepted even when he's not perfect. That's GOT to feel good!

H4F~~<p>I do not feel robbed of recent pleasant recollections of the closeness between us. I am not re-writing these recollections in any way.<p>One of the reasons Mr. Pepper's A was so well-hidden from me for so long is because I did not think he would be attractive to anyone else! (I am ashamed as I write this ... but, this is where my mind was .... back then) So now, I know differently. He is attractive to other women. So, I guess one of the adjustments I've had to make since recovery is to see him with "new eyes". I used to joke that Mr. Pepper looks "JUST LIKE MEL" ... and the person I would be speaking to would ask, "Mel who? Mel Gibson???" ... and I would answer , "No ... Mel Brooks!" [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ..... But, of course Mel Brooks is married to Anne Bankroft ... a real beauty!<p>I can be a real jerk sometimes!<p>So, things are out in the open ... and once things are out they are no longer so frightening. <p>Mr. Pepper has been gaga over me all weekend ... and I'm pert-near wore out [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Have a great holiday weekend!<p>We're gonna B-B-Q tomorrow. Or, I guess Sel would say that I'm gonna grill ... cuz I think we're gonna do salmon.<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Excellent! On both your parts! You observed something and actually brought it to light, and he actually talked about it. That is so wonderful!<p>You know, I felt similiarly about my H...I have NO IDEA why. I guess he was the shy quiet type and wasn't chased by hoards of women, so I figured I had him safely to myself. Well...I do, but that doesn't mean he isn't VERY ATTRACTIVE!!<p>We're grilling tonight too. T-Bones! I had them ready for yesterday but the hubby had a headache and wasn't hungry for supper...so they've been basting more than 24 hours! I bet they'll be very flavorfull!

I do think as the BS that I have the choice to leave, but then again, doesn't either partner have that choice at any time in the marriage? I had that choice prior to his A, during his A, and now after his A. Would divorce have been legal? Sure, for any variety of reasons. Would divorce have been right? Ever since the first year of marriage I could have divorced him for breaking vows - to honor, to cherish, in sickness and health, all of those have been broken to some degree in my M. And since I can't even remember my vows, I've probably broken some of them too.<p>So it boils down to this with me, I have forgiven his A. Therefore I have no right to "hold" it over him. However, if at any time I see attitudes and actions that violate other parts of my vows (love, cherish, honor, etc), I will not be nearly as quick to overlook or forgive them.<p>From my heart - I will divorce him if he reverts to the actions and attitudes he exhibited prior to and during the A. So it is up to me to help steer him from behaviors that lead to these actions and attitudes. That's what a good wife does. She tries to strengthen instead of tear down.

look at it from a spiritual point of view. you promise to love one another thru richer or poorer, sickness and health, good times and bad, til death do you part. but you make that promise to each other, everyone in that church that day, the priest and above all GOD. i for one do not want to be responsible for breaking a promise to GOD. or the 200 people in that church that day, or more importantly, my wife.