Well I have a quick question. I have finished "Mars and Venus in the Bedroom" and I have hand written an 8 page sexual fantasy with my WW. It is mainly very descriptive about feelings, kissing, touching, and is very passionate. I did not mention the OM. I have not been real graphic.<p>I wrote the letter to try to reduce my anxieties about sex, and to help my fantasies to be more vivid. I have a hard time fantasizing about the details and feel that this may have an affect on the sex.<p>I have not had sex with my WW for about a month, and I have been Plan Aing with great success. I can tell she is finally warming up to me. I would like to give this letter to her to show my intense passion for her. I am hoping that this will help break the ice since our last bad sexual encounter. She has not been very affectionate, and I would so much like to see that part again. I miss her slow kisses and her touch so much. I am not ready for the sex yet, but I want the kisses and the hugs and the touches of warm affection.<p>What do you think? Should I give her the letter, and will it have an effect?

Waiting to see the answers to this as its soemthing I've thought of doing a few times but as yet haven't had the courage- in case it pushes him away. Jante

Dreamland,<p>I've been following your story. I'm really sorry for the pain your going through. I don't know if the letter will work, but the idea sounds good to me. Hopefully someone wiser than me will give you a more definate answer.<p>Feeling Lost
P.S. Thanks for your reply to my post.

I haven't read the book...is it worthwhile?<p>In my situation, I have had many thoughts along the same line. Since I am pretty capable about expressing my sexuality and have a good idea about what my WW is interested in, I have expressed most of my fantasies to her. This is a new thing since the problems began, but I think it has helped her realize that I can be the sexual partner that she desires. We have actually done some of these things and it was at her request (I think it helped her in knowing how interested I was in our sexual realtions and how we were doing it). In some aspects our sexuality has been better because we are now sharing more of what we like, don't like, and want to explore. But the emotional passion is not where it should be.<p>In some respects where you are going is somewhat different because I did touch on the graphic. In my case I felt this was important because she felt like I was sexually inhibited. I think focusing on the passionate non-graphic parts is important too. Unfortunately, I have a hard time reaching that emotional side of my WW.<p>In terms of sharing it with her, there is a right time and right place. I think it would be most effective when she is demonstarting some emotional attachment (yes some of the affection). But that said, no matter when you share it there is a risk that it could scare her. You have to be prepared for any reaction she may have and have a plan for turning even a negative reaction into a positive (I know, easy to say, harder to do).

onwardandup,<p>Great book. I recommend it for even people with a great sex life. It was very encourageing and enlightening.<p>I was a little graphic. I talked about touching all the parts and pieces but in a romantic and not pornographic way. It was tough to do this.

I spent many hours writting this 8 page letter to her and she will not even read it. She says she does not think our relationship is ready for that right now. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] I do not know what she did with it. I hope she did not throw it away.<p>So much for trying. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

"I love you. Let's have sex" is NOT the way to get a woman to warm up to you and want to be with you.<p>For women, generally, affairs are not about sex. So if you are thinking that is the only reason she did it, you are very probably wrong.<p>You need to show her you care about her feelings and thoughts and who she is as a person.<p>[ May 27, 2002: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]</p>

Dreamland -<p>If you remember the first few cards and things I gave my WW since everything went bad were thrown straight in the garbage. I hope your WW did not do this, but it isn't the end of the day. It may hurt, but like everyone has told me, I was not in the position to have that type of relationship with my WW at that time. It seems like you have a similiar situation and things can't be rushed.<p>Remember that you wrote the letter because you wanted to. Yes it was a risk, but a risk worth taking. I feel your pain, because I have been there also. If nothing else, she knows how you feel (even without reading it). You have also learned that the road back still is very long. This is not the best thing to hear, but at least you know something about the distance that must be crossed. <p>I know its hard, but you have helped me stay the course though difficult times (and I appreciate this). I think the best thing for you to do is to continue to stay the course. Focus on the things that you know cause a positive response in her. Avoid the things that do not work. Look for small progress or if nothing else that the situation does not get worse.<p>It never is a bad thing to try something. You should be proud of yourself for the effort. Someday I think your WW will look back and be proud of you also.

DREAMLAND! **SMACK**<p>Your wife is SO TOTALLY NOT READY for that yet! Dang man...SLOW DOWN!! She's JUST BARELY peeking through the fog and this is toooo much to digest right now. When SHE comes to YOU and expresses love freely again...you'll know she's ready for more. And an 8 page love novel is MUCH more, so save it for later!<p>You get an A for effort...but a D for timing!!!

Hope4future:<p>Thanks for the slap. I guess it was a dumb thing to do. I keep forgetting that W is not ready for all of this. I think I will just tell her to save the letter until she is ready.<p>onwardandup:<p>How did things go this weekend? Congratulations on the A's. I wish I could say all of this crap has not affected my work. I will hide this info. from my wife.

Dreamland - <p>I posted an update on my main thread. Thanks for the congratulations. <p>I do want to tell you that all of this has had a big affect on my studies. I try not to share to much of it with my WW so she doesn't get upset. In a nutshell, I took an incomplete in one of my classes and still have a paper to write, I completly abandoned my Graduate Assistanship responsibilities (I have to pick up all of that work this summer), and my classwork was s*** for the second half of the semester (I had to rely on classmates to get through). I was in excellent shape before all he** broke loose and the fact that I work well under pressure paid dividends at exam time.<p>It is difficult to not have the situation affect work. At least with time I have been able to understand my own feelings, and know when it is a good time to try and get things done or wait for another day. All you can do is try your best. I will say that the people I work with were all very understanding of my situation. I know where I am is different from a "real job" but it was comforting to get the support from everyone I shared with.

PLEASE EXCUSE ME IF THIS OFFENDS ANYONE<p>DL,<p>I am a FWW and FBS. My, my, my....<p>You CANNOT get through to your W through sex. I know those are your feelings and you have every right to them. It may be one of your top 5 needs. What are your W's top 5 needs? Do you know what her top 5 or even 10 are? She yours?<p>My H tried to come at me the same way. It is just way too early. I'm sorry to say that your W is still in the fog. She is still suffering from withdrawal symtoms. Maybe you need to ask her what is going through her head. YOU BOTH NEED TO GET REAL WITH EACH OTHER. She knows.<p>Everyone's situation is different, but personally speaking, I did not feel comfortable having sex with my H after my A nor did I after I found out about all of his A's (before and after mine). It was really hard for me to have sex with my H without the emotional connection...that passion.<p>I didn't want to do it out of obligation because I'm a wife who is suppose to please her H. I wanted to do it because I wanted and desired my H and vice versa. If I just gave into it, I felt pressured, used, dirty, judged, etc... <p>Then again, my H was using sex as his "healing" tool....if that makes sense. He basically felt that if I had sex with him it would show him how much I loved him and that I wanted him which would help him get over my A. If I didn't, he'd say it was because he couldn't please me sexually. Or, he'd compare himself with the OM saying I wanted a bigger man [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] . My husband basically uses sex as a confidence booster. He thought because sex was one of his top 5 needs it had to be one of my top 5. It is not even on my top 10 list of needs. <p>He refused to face that our M broke down, for me, NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF HIS MULTIPLE A's, but basically because of OUR unmet needs. (MINE: financial security, safety, family, domestic, recreation, etc...) Sex is #14 on my list. HIS: recreation, social, sex, admiration, and family. Somewhere in the beginning of our M I failed at meeting his needs and later on he failed me. We are both to blame. <p>It didn't break down over night. Radically speaking, my H did not act like a married man nor did he act like a F to our D from the get go. I did not perform the way I use to after I had my D. It slowly chipped away at our M until eventually he cheated and later on I just chose to do the wrong thing myself and have an A too when I should have just left him. (Stupid me <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> ) <p>I could go on, but it's alot of drama. Basically, there are reasons that led up to the A. So, no excuses for it happening. Noone put a gun to her head, but something led up to it. The M breakdown goes 50/50. You each played a part in that. Don't play cover up. You'll fall right back into the same dream with another rude awakening. Go back to the source/beginning. <p>Find out what your W's top 10 needs are and focus on meeting her top 5 for now. Find out what is in her head....RADICAL HONESTY. If she can be radically honest and you able to deal with whatever comes out her mouth, then you are on your way. GET HER TO TALK. Remember to PLAN A!!! Don't judge her and don't do it in the house. Go for a walk or something. She may feel more comfortable to open up then. Don't push. <p>One day at a time.<p>Just my thoughts.
INTHECLOUDS

intheclouds,<p>Thanks for the post. I do not require any sugar coating. I am not sure if I need to undo what I have done or if I can. Maybe I can ask for the letter back, or ask for her to hold it. <p>Unfortunately, she will not fill out the EN questionare. She really does not even want to try anymore. She feels that she is safe with me not leaving and she will try to leave OM when she feels like it. She just wants to ignore the whole thing right now, and that is O.K. with me. We have talked about this far too much, and their is no new feelings to add. I will let her update me when she feels ready. She is tired all the time now (depression and withdrawl), and she will not go to counseling. I will not force the issue.<p>I am very strong (have always been) and I will let her feed off my strength. I just need to keep this sex stuff out of my mind, but when we cuddle at night, I just can not help myself. I have not tried to have sex with her in a month. I guess she will let me know when she is ready. I have decided that she will have to initiate sex, and I may refuse to have sex with her if I know she is not ready.<p>Here is my story if your interested.My Long Story

Dreamland:<p>I read "Mars and Venus" too. And I suggested my W read it and she did skim though the book. I have to say our takeaway thoughts on the book were a little different than yours.<p>Firstly, I agreed with the introduction and the first chapter. And it was this part that I wanted my W to read, so that she could get some sense of what I wanted out of SF. I had tried to explain in the past, but wasn't very good at it, and the book does do a fairly good job of explaining how men tie SF, love and emotions together.<p>The rest of the book (except the quickie chapter) sometimes made sense, but was pretty contrived. My W took issue with almost the entire book! She accepted (grudgingly) the SF/love thesis for men, but that was about it. <p>When you step back a bit, the whole premise of the book seems to revolve around the following idea (paraphrasing here): a man needs SF and a woman wants romance and affection. Give a man SF, and he will give the woman romance." Pretty simplistic, really. And yet, we all know that in real life, feelings involving SF are about as complex as you can get!<p>The rest of the text really involves mechanics to make this happen. Look, I'm not knocking the book, after all we all have to start somewhere. But I think there are better ones - David Schnarch's "Passionate Marriage" is pretty good. Although I have to tell you, I haven't found the the perfect book yet. They all seem to have pieces of the puzzle, but not a complete picture. Dunno - maybe I'm overanalyzing this, just my view.<p>Anyway, keep reading and get educated. When you are ready to take the SF plunge think of how informed you will be!

Dreamland...just an idea. You could ask for the letter back with an apology for it's untimelyness. Tell her that you were confused about how to begin to move forward in your relationship again, and since SF was something you had previously tried working at together you thought this might help. Tell her you'd like to keep it for another day, that possibly one day you could read it together.<p>I've always thought it might be "sexy" to buy a decent trashy romance novel (are there any???) and read it while being naked in bed together. Might be a bit erotic?? You could do that someday with the letter. Let her lie in bed with her eyes closed while you read it to her with the intended reflection and pause...know what I mean?<p>I think you had a great idea, just jumped the gun is all. I know you think the sex thing was a big deal to her...hey, it was to me too. I wanted PASSION not just the same ol jump on me and get off ordeal. But it required time. It was even some time after we got back together that I could get emotionally comfortable enough around H to get more experimental in bed. It's been about 6 months now and we're just starting to have some real fun! It wasn't withdrawl...just time to get comfy around each other again.

Well, dang! You came on here and ASKED if you should give the letter to her.. nobody responded! Now they're all fussin at ya! You stuck your nose out - which is to be admired - but it got punched, huh??!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You get an A for effort!! [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>BUT, you've gotten great advice after the fact. <p>2 lessons learned... 1 - if you're unsure of taking a leap like that, it's best to keep screaming at us to get some feedback before actually taking the plunge. 2 - You asked on a Friday afternoon of a holiday weekend - the boards are incredibly slow at those times. So give us a chance to help you.<p>What to do now? I wonder if it might be best that you might let it go... <p>I don't have much advice to you about letting your - ahem - "needs" go. But, just let them go for now. You can do it. Exercise, keep your mind occupied with other things, stay busy, and focus on the little bit of good you have with your W right now. You are soooooo lucky to have the cuddling every night!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Please enjoy that, k? Some of us would give our right arm to have that while Plan A'ing. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ May 28, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

gourami12,<p>The most interesting thing about the book to me was to know that I was not alone in my feelings and misinterpretations about sex and that others have felt the same way I do. The first few chapters for me were worthless, not very good writing because it could have been condensed into a page or two. I believe it was the fourth to sixth chapters which were the most enlightening and helpful. It had quite a bit of good how to communicate mechanics.<p>I believe I am going to skim these chapters again and jot down some key points. I did this for the SAA book and it has really helped to keep the information real.
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Hope4future:
Good idea. I am going to ask for the letter back and apologize for the untimeliness. I will tell her that I was trying some of the things that the books have mentioned and was not sensitive about her feelings. Maybe I will let her see where I put it so that if she ever gets the urge she may sneak a peak.
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Faith1:
You are such a kind and sensitive person. Thank you for the "pick me up" this morning. I was a little depressed until I read your post. Any man would be extremely lucky to have a woman like you.