My H is getting worse and worse off on the drinking issues.. and problem(s).<p>He has a neighbor who likes to get drunk too, but at lesat the neighbor is employed... they go fishing all the time... on neighbors mothers boat and go and stay at 3 story beach house of 39 yr old drunken neighbors... I was actually invited down last night and neighbor had a fit and asked me to leave... since once I had asked him politely to please not involve my h in all these fishing trips... and enable him to continue...<p>tthis next door neigh has big issues as his alcoholic and brain damaged... a little cooky? dad lives with him... the neibhbors Mom ran off and married someone successful... instead of living with h's new buddies drunken and problem oriented dad.... <p>Sad... but I see this friend as having quilt in destorying or adding to destorying our marriage... <p>All I ever did was ask him not to hange with h so much... I guess that made him want to do it more... and last night when I arrived at mothers beach house... this "friend" of h's came up to me... SO DRUNK... after refusing to look my way or say hello for quite a while... (10 minutes) everyone else had sd hello... and sd hi and extended his hand- I did not shake it... but sd hello... (truly, I did not want to shake it... considering I see him as problem causing in my family and marriage)--- so .... he started to yell and cuss and demanded I leave "his house" ... his mothers house that is... the tv was blaring mtv or something... they were all overly concerned with smoking and drinking.. and hanging at the parents pad although irresponsible in their own right... there was po+ around and lots of alcohol... <p>(I went down to meet h there... since this friend of h's , ben... convinced him he had to be there last night to go out on boat today at 5am... in galveston , freeport.. H is building websites for some of ben's friends to earn money , so sees this as connection... oh, and guess what some , or at least one of the friends is an attorney... great... for an alcoholic to have attorney friends, right?<p>H was supposed to take me out after dinner with my friends to hear jazz or something in houston.. but since... his dear next door neigh... who eats dinner with him most every night.. and is an alcoholic too... although employed as an enginerer? go figure? functional alcoholic?<p>anyway... this ben got my h to abandon our plans on my bday... by the way... by the time I got there... h was way drunk.. he was afraid I would say something rude to these "friends" of his... the "ladies " were all outside smoking and drinking on the porch.. did not get to talk to them much, but I am not completely impressed... <p>would like to know... how a drunk enginere hangs with a bunch of lawyers driving mercedes? I am so sick... because I feel these "friends": are helping enable my h... <p>I need an alanon meeting... ???<p>So- long story short.. h actually left wioth me and attempted to get us a hotel room... for what? I know he wanted sf///- but I was not sure about that anyway... I was hoping to talk or have a little fun on my bday... he did not even tell me happy bday.. <p>I was very scared of h's driving... terrified.. and finnally we realized all hotel rooms were booked ... so without a reservation.. too bad...<p>So by this time.. I was kind of sickened by the whole scene... and I sd just take me to my car... I will drive home... So I had 2 1/2 hours or so with my h driving around and dealing with his freak of a "friend:"... who will help destroy us.<p>or is.<p>So anyway... I drove a long way home across town and was just so saddened... <p>I cannot trust my h , as alcoholics lie. I am not availalbe to him sexually , so I am unsure what he is doing... since he needs it... and still he has this maid.. I took a quick look at his call log while he was looking for rooms and maides number looked to have been called even on my bday.. yesterday... what for?<p>I just dont even know.. he is living paty single life for now..<p>for one thing... his new buddy ben has just gotten himself out of our lives if we do work things out... but this drunken h is so sad..<p>my h has had periodic binges and troubles thourgh out the yrs.. but he has never been this bad. I am truly worried about his life... if he keeps gertting this drunk... hanging around water, and driving.. he is sure to end up dead or something ?<p>Comments are appreciated.. It is so hard... I know this site is not focused on situations this sad.<p>but if anyone has been here please help.<p>honey

Honey,<p>If I were you I wouldn't be hanging out with your H's drunk friends. There is absolutely no good that can come of it. Your H will be motivated to drink around them, which can only serve to start big fights between you two. You have enough insanity in your life right now with ONE DRUNK, why add to the fun?<p>If he asks you out in the future, I would avoid the drunken parties and do things where you can enjoy each other and work on healing your marriage. <p>Also, the problem here is not your H's drunken neighbor. Your H is not a little boy who can be swayed and influenced by his buddies, but a grown up man who makes his own choices. He chooses to hang with drunks because he is a drunk. He drinks and parties, not because of his neighbor's influence, but because he is a drunk.

P.S. I am sorry your birthday was ruined. I was really hoping you would have a nice day. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

"I cannot trust my h, as alcoholics lie"<p>If you trust him .... and he violates your trust ... and then you trust him again, and he violates again .... and you trust him again, and he hurts you again, and you miss him so much, so you give him another dose of your trust, and he violates your trust again ... and... and.... and.... and............. When does it stop?<p>If you expect him to be trustworthy .... you are jumping out of your boat again Honey, and into his crazy leaky, about to capsize boat. But, then Honey gets to say : "I TRUSTED you, and look what YOU did to me." But, Honey trusted someone who she KNOWS cannot be trusted .... Honey KNOWS from repeated and re-cycled experience that he cannot be trusted, but Honey choose to trust anyway....what about that? Ask Honey what she was doing with someone she KNOWS cannot be trusted. Ask Honey what she expected would happen ... trusting an alcoholic.<p>You enabled him yourself Honey. When you put yourself physically, emotionally, spiritually, sexually in the hands of a drunk ... you enable him to HURT you again ! <p>Let's not make this about what mistakes and foolishness your H does ... because YOU have NO CONTROL whatsoever to limit or manage his foolishness.<p>Let's make this about Honey's foolishness ... because you can limit and control your own mistakes and foolishness. Do you think it was a mistake to go to that party? Do you think it was a mistake to get in that car with a DRUNK and drive around for two freakin' hours?<p>Do you know the AA definition of insanity?<p>Insanity is when you keep doing the same thing over and over ... and getting the same results over and over ... but EXPECTING a different, better result each time.<p>Honey ... own up to the mistakes you made here .... cuz girlfriend .... that's the only way your situation is going to improve.<p>"Let go and let God." <p>For many of us women married to an alcoholic man that saying means: <p>"Let go (of managing his life and trying to control his behavior) and let God (trust that without your help Honey, God will take care of this in HIS time, not yours)."<p>Peace and serenity to you today Honey. Take it one day at a time ... or, if need be, sometimes in even smaller bites than that! Sometimes it's one hour at a time.<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ May 26, 2002: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</p>

Honey
Sorry about your birthday. <p>I am not quite sure why you drove with your H when you new he was drunk. You have your kids...and they need their Mom. <p>Your H seems to not really care about anyone but himself. Let him hit bottom......don't go there with him! You can do this.....stay away from him. Go to your alanon meetings. You are not helping him and he is definetly not helping you.<p>Be strong!

Honey, forget about your H's drinking problem.<p>You have just as serious an addiction problem: you are codependent. What are you doing about your own recovery?<p>Your H is your booze, your pot, your gambling. Let him go, stop wallowing in feelings of sadness and saintliness, and start on your own life.

Hi, no... I should not of been in that car... he got me very scared... I did not know we would be riding around so long... basically up and down the seawall looking for a hotel... and me thingking the whole time... what do I want to be in a hotel room with huim for? Even though he was very intoxicated... I did not quite realize how bad.. until he started the driving... and some of the talking he did in the car... I had seen him for about 20 minutes before I was kicked out of the party by the drunken friend... <p>I know my h is choosing to be with these drunks and have a party life... it make s me really sad.. that this is what he has found... <p>actually... he found it at work first.. the afterwork drinking parties and bar mixers etc... OW #1..(whatever)<p>then, came the a with the drunken ow... well I do not think she is as bad as him... well who even knows... but she played darts in a league (in my book an excuse to drink!) --- he eventually quit the dang dart league of his own volition... wow!<p>anyway.... I just feel I am dealing with a defiant teenager.<p>I am working so hard on the first step - Letting GO.<p>Well, my bday was not ruined... as I already celebreated early with my parents... sister and kids... on friday night... coworkers at lunch on frieday... and there is a monthly bday cake coming next week! and I got loads of great presents... exactlly what I wanted from my family...<p>my sister gave me an aweseome foot spa which I am about to pedicure myself with... my grandmother sent money which I bought a steamer... facial..er.... (whatever you call it thingy)- that I love pampering with too! I am taking care of me...<p>my kids got me beautful pink roses ... a dozen... I have gotten loads of cards and calls from my friends! <p>and last night on actual bday... I went to dinner with a dinner club... of friedns... my sister knows.. it was really fun... we went to a french restaurant... ! after friday going to an awesome seafood carribean place with coworkers... wow!<p>the dinner club is some thing a lot of co workers and their friends started , and once a month they go out to a new fun restaurant... last night was awesome... <p>I did not tell h who I was dining with... and told him I was going out with friends... everyone had only 1-2 glasses of wine... what a refreshing group of drinkers! WOW! I am so used to the alcoholic drinking it is SAD.<p>and I wanted to see h after dinner... we were suppossed to go to hear jazz... although being in an environ. that even serves alcohol scared me!<p>at least.. one good thing came from my adventure to galveston... about 1.5 hours from my home... 1 hour from houston where I had dinner ... and a real late night.<p>I realized.. NO, I do not like drunken parties.. never did anyway... (in h and i's younger days... pre and early kids... I did used to hang with some guitar player friends of his in atlanta- but it was not as bad as these friends last night.. the guy anyway... major drunk!).<p>But- what elese... I realized how sad he is looking to me... my marriage falling apart is due to alcoholism- it is so sad to watch someone you love be killed and destroyed by alcohol. <p>But I realize where he is taking me... or going.. and how far away he is from being the kind of man I wanted to be married to.l<p>when we married h promised to finsih college and become an attorney... well.. he has taken approx. 3-4 classes since then.. that is a 10+ yr. period... I think he is realizing how dissapointed he is in himeself... thus the cycle.. I feel bad.. I drink... I do bad things because I drink... I feel worse... I drink again to anesthesize it.<p>I saw an awesome lifetime movie this weekend... actually almost watched it twice... about a young girl , teenager who had to go to rehab and lost her friends (the partiers) because of it... <p>I used to be a party girl.. that is how I met this man... i guess.. well not in the beginning.. but it did have something to do with it... I am embarrassed to say... but that was college.. with little respnsibility.. this is 15 or more yrs later.. and still this.. actually I met him 18 yrs ago... almost... I have been holding on to who he was suppossed to be and who I believed he was inside.. despite all this crap.... ?// (there were some wonderful points aobut him , but they are dying... dying... ) why do peple do this to themselves?<p>anyway... I almost grieve more now for my lost idea of a "perfect" family and my lost best friend, my h... who I have lost to alcohol... the other women are just a symptom...<p>boy do I need an alanon meeting! today I am taking my son to an astros game... my 9 yr old.. with a friend and my sister... that will be a fun night! so no meeting tongiht.. and I was so tired.. I did not attend church today... <p>but I can just pray..> i can pray for him... it is so sad... <p>at least as I stated above I am getting a clearer picture of who he NOW IS>.. not the man I loved so much.<p>He even insulted and joked with me on the phone... before we met... (again the I left you because you are so fat... you treated me so bad for yrs... and I remembered that last yr on my bday this stuff was starting and he came home late and me and the boys went out alone to mexican.. and he showed up late... ---he had the gall to joke he was prob. out fing michelle.. the first ow... according to my cell phone studies... he did not start that until august... but I am so gone in the lies and confusiong... or he is... I do not know what to belive from him...<p>His state of mind scared me enough that I am closer to saying he will need drug tests, etc... alcohol... and I may have to do that with custody stuff... (which I have been afraid to do because I hate to be DISRESPECTFUL) and tell him he is not responsible or capable of keeping my babies safe.. he gets MEAN when he feels insulted... , etc.<p>I dont even know.. he loves the kids.. but I will not have him endangering their lives.. one of my counselors.. says the drunks just gradually go away and forget about their families... <p>but biZarre.. enough with my h and some alcoholics.. or many..> WEHEN sober... he is so different.. and so able to hide his troubles and act together.. well a lot of the time.. this is the man I love.. but he misrespresents who he is... since he does not face reality , but anesthesizes any pain in his life... <p>Hugs and thanks for listening or readings... at least I got it out... and talked it out here in type... ot myself.<p>anyone with alanon experience... please help me however you can!<p>Hugss and thanks, Honey [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

melody lane.. thanks for the advice on not hanging with drunk friends.. ! good idea! i was curious to see this mile high beach house with elevator , etc.. my kids had been too with ben the neigbhor... but my H had originally told me he would take me out alone when I met him... well he changed mind I guess as maybe it was cheaper on his thin pocketbook to hange at friends pad.. who knows? there was no orig. plan to spend night.. just meet up for a while... <p>I should of passed... but I did get to see how bad off he is... I have not seen him this bad off in a while... happy birthday... <p>well , it just remind me of all the evenings we went to dinner or whatever and even my office christmas parties...e tc. where my h would embarras me... by gettintg to sloshed.. (one of my bosses.. a friend of mine .. made fun of him to me... and he EMbarrassed me!) People are always suprised I would marry usch a bum?! If they know me then see him drinking/? such diff. mentalities... <p>anyway... oh yea.. was going to say.. so many dinners he would just get so drunk it ruined my meal- I might as well of been out with someone with mental impairment...? h used to try to steal... and actually did wine bottles used for decor at ital. res. we used to go to... <p>So sad.. thanks for reading, etc.<p>honey <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" />

ongoing saga... H is back from fishing trip, called and was cleaning fish with his new best friend and drunkern neighbor... the one who kicked me out of the beachhouse... I was angry and lb'd I guess.. as I sd... he will also have to go in order to fix things btwn us. I asked ws what he was going to do about things.. and his "friend" he replied nothing and that he did not want to get into it.. blah blah.. well neither do i... but, get real.<p>I hung up. I guess I am back on my way to lbing... I really feel he owes me csome sort of consideration considering... I know if H and I ever work things out... ben will be out of the picture.. hopefully , please lord.. he is trouble.<p>
any advice on how to handle my anger towards his friend.. I guess just say nothing.. as the more I hate this friend or dislike him or whatever the more it will drived my childish h to be with the dope... thanks so much.

thanks again, Honey

Hi Honey,<p>You can't win in someone else's battle with alcohol! I'm thinking of Al-Anon myself because of alcoholism in my family.<p>Simmering resentment against the friend will only punish you. He won't feel a thing or care one bit that you hate him, but it will tie your insides in knots and keep you awake at night. And it won't break up their friendship either.<p>You can't control your H's choice of friends, nor can you control the friend. But you can try really hard to cast aside your feelings of resentment. Also, think how puzzled your H will be when you don't say a negative word about the friend. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take care,
Estes

{{{Honey}}}, Sorry to hear that things are going downhill, but that's how it goes with alcoholism, it's a progressive disease. Remember that it usually has to get worse before it gets better, but some never recover. As I tell you every time I reply to you, I totally relate to your story. <p>My H kicked in my door last week, ripped my bedroom door off it's hinges, kicked in my closet door, picked up a plant and slammed it on the floor shattering it to pieces, and threw bottles of lotion and perfume at the walls in a blackout while screaming obscenities and threatening to kill me, in front of a male friend of his who tried to protect me from him. <p>He did this because I've told him I'm done with him because of his drinking, his verbal abuse, and his unwillingness to be monogamous.<p>I called the police. He already has a $3000 warrant for his arrest (don't know for what), a DUI in which he totalled his car and was air lifted to the hospital, and he's been evicted from at least four places he and OW have lived in during the past 1.5 yrs. including his current apartment. He doesn't work - but gets a paycheck from our jointly owned business that I've been running alone.<p>I tell you this just to let you know that I've been there, done that. The only thing that gets me through is regular attendance at AlAnon (4 meetings a week - all that are available in my small town) and my friends and God. He is also a totally different person when sober, and he was sober for almost 10 years until 2.5 years ago.<p>The only way out of your pain is to focus on yourself and your own recovery, turn your relationship over to God, and take steps to keep you and your kids safe, don't put yourself in alcoholic situations, don't allow him to treat you badly, and most importantly, go to AlAnon meetings, get a sponsor, talk to members on the phone, and read AlAnon literature.<p>The answer won't come overnight, but the program promises that we can be happy whether the alcoholic continues drinking or not.

Hi Estes and LetsTry, Let me start by saying thank you. I know alcohlism is not the focus of this site.. and the Harleys say.. that alcoholism must first be treated before the marriage can recover. How right they are.<p>Tonight, and more and more nights lately... I am glad I am not dealing with my husbands drunkeness. It is the worst thing in my life I have ever been through... it has driven me insane.. and I am on myh way back to sanity. <p>I am so focusing on the 12 steps... I am cking in with a group of wonderful women who are going on a cosa, codepen. of sex add. retreat next wkend.. boy do I hope I can still go ... I have been afraid to burden my parents with my kids for another weekend. <p>I have been going to alanon, I do not have a sponsor.. I think I have not seen one I want at the meetings I can attend... there are two with childcare mon eve. and sat am - and I go to the sa meetings on sun. eve. usually... has childcare... also. I missed this sun and mon, and boy do I need a meeting.. especially after the sat. night bday episode.. and tongith I called back left a couple of messages for h to call me as I wanted to talk about it..<p>NO, I will not say anything else about the friend.. actually was on good terms with friend in beginning of whole dilemma.. friend was very drunk and prob. feels a little stupid for treating me like that anyway... guess I should of shook his hand. I am annoyed with him that all the boating trips take my h away, and all the drining and etc that goes on with these folks.<p>I terribly miss my h, the man I married, the man I loved. WHoever inhabits his body these days.. a drunk on his way downhill.. I do not know.<p>letstry, my h also has warrants out for his arrest and etc. Who knows what for ? One of his new buddies is an attorney... so I guess he has to stay in cahoots with him to get legal services.. who knows?<p>I know I cannot fight this disease for him... if I could he would be recovered... I made a life for us, and helped him appear and even have a life... now his existences is just getting worse and worse... <p>We had one arguement before the big A... where I sd "you would be in a ditch without me"... I should not of sd it... but H was threatening to leave me, threatening to cheat... I told him he would not find a woman like me to put up with his drinking, etc. He would find some scum... well just what he has done... left and is living life in gutterville and going out with total scum drunken women.<p>I admit early in our marriage and when we were young I partied with him.. but I thought that was just a thing for a little while.. not a lifestyle.<p>I feel so bad over disrespctful judgements... because it is hard to approve of someone you love killing themselves and their lives and their family with the bottle. I did say to him sat. , pleae consider rehab, I am worried about you. He got angry.<p>I know he will have to hit a bottom. I am treying to learn more and more about alcoholism as this is my true problem in my marriage.. if he was sober we would be livinv a whole different reality.<p>I watched when a man loves a woman and in their marriage they were able to get through it.. BUT she , the Alcoholic, wanted to get through it, and wanted to recover.. My h insistes he does not have a problem????<p>ANyway, it is such a baffling , cunning diesase... as like you sa y letstry.. he is wonderful when sober. Wonderful... He may find a nother job with his true intelligence and likability.. it is the nighttime after 5 drunk that scares me and that I am so hurt by.<p>He must have no memory of so much of what he has done, it is crazy. I see my part and my almost addictive drinking that I have been through with him.. he was always buying me wine while bringing in his beer.. he bought us both some.. he wanted a partner... the less I drank the more we argued, the more apart we grew.. the better mother and person I became, the angrier he was.. if I did not want him drinking etc.<p>Thanks for the feedback on ben, I will let it go to God. He is also a nice person, I just wish he would not come between me and H. I should of shaken his hand. If I get a chance in the furture I will be kind to him. I do not want to hurt him... I do not wish him harm... I just wish my h could have sober friends... ??? but alcoholics choose to hang with drunks, right?<p>letstry.... my bedroom door has been mended with spackling.. something like that... since one day when h still lived here.. I think last summer.. he kicked in the door when I locked myself in there crying after he had sd mean things to me... he then later sd... Oh, it was just my shoe.. he had on dress shoes.. and that because of the dress shoes the door was kicked in... he didnt know the force of the shoe and that is was totally an accident... I never once pressed charges on my H.<p>I am so sorry for the scene you had to endure lately, but I am very glad you had someone there to help you survive it. It is so hard dealing with a loved one dying from this disease. It just takes some and they never come back. <p>I soemtimes feel guilty when I let go... because I know without me is just going to have a worse and worse time.. but I know this is what will hopefully save him.<p>Hugs to you , I appreciate the support.. Yes, I need a meeting. Yes, I need a sponser... !<p>Honey

Honey -- think about what the Harley's have said.
The Alcoholism must be treated before the marriage can recover.<p>Your husband is not being treated. He has not expressed any interest in being treated. He is not anywhere near it! And there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.<p>He has sunk into the alcohol, and he is no longer the person you married. <p>Please distance yourself and your children from this stranger. It isn't safe for you to be around him, because he inflicts emotional damage on you everytime you see him. And he's not safe for your children to be around -- physically.

Honey, <p>I'm in group therapy for Adult Children of Alcoholics. Our group facilitator is not only a fully qualified psychiatrist but also a neuroscientist whose field of research is addiction.<p>This is what he told us: For people who are born with the genetic capacity for alcoholism, drinking impacts the brain physically. One can see this on dissection of brains of cadavers... The frontal lobe of the brain is where our impulse control, reasoning ability and conscience reside. The addict who is using is in a physical state of brain cell destruction. The frontal lobe withers up. The active user cannot reason, cannot "see" blindingly obvious truths, cannot control their impulses and has no memory of his/her words/actions. <p>It takes 90 days of being clean and sober before any recovery can take place, before those brain cells start to grow back.<p>Somebody who drinks every night is under the influence for the whole of the next day.<p>What he told us, and I quote "An active alcoholic is f***ing CRAZY. If you try to reason with or control him, you're also F***ING crazy. It's like telling somebody with TB not to cough."<p>It is not the friends, the booze or the boat trips, or the OW, that take your H away. Your H goes away of his own choice and he takes the friends, booze, boats and OW with him.<p>Okay, so you can't in any way influence or heal your H. You can in every way influence and heal Honey, and you can do a lot toward giving your children a safe, harmonious environment.<p>Why not drop the hopeless job and start in on the one where success is guaranteed? Your H is an active alcoholic and you don't have a marriage. A marriage is the free-will union of two people. One person, no matter how highly motivated, cannot make a marriage.<p>Remember Step 1? You are powerless over alcohol and the alcoholic. Accept the truth in that and use your peace and power for doing the things you can do.

let me say thanks to all of you kind people helping me get through this.. it is as if he has truly fallen down and cant get up.. and keeps spiraling down faster.<p>thanks- H

Honey,<p>I hate to say what I'm going to say, but I think you need to end contact with your WH, and you need to do it now. That is my personal opinion, based on what I know of your situation.<p>I would suggest a Plan B letter, asking for an end to the drinking and the A before you are willing to take up the restoration of your M. And as far as contact with the children, only what the law requires, and even that, under alcohol-free conditions.<p>I am sorry, but I feel that you cannot possibly continue to torture yourself this way, nor expose yourself and your family to this. This man has to make some serious decisions about his life before he regains the right to you and your family. I am truly, truly sorry...get some help, but get away from this destructive person now.

You've gotten some great advise here. <p>Your posts are full of confidence when you are not in contact with him. He seems to suck you in and you feel horrible for days. He is not good for you the way he is now.