I know I'm not justified in feeling this way. All of you warned me that this would happen. However, we had to go to a confirmation on the weekend. I take care of the gift. I take care of D. Him? Well, he waltzes in for the restaurant dinner. Doesn't come to the church. The one friend that knows of the A told her husband who was our best man. He pretends as if nothing has really happened between us. As if my H is still the great buddy that he was. Invites HIM over after the dinner to watch the game.<p>And I have to listen to my D cry all the way home because her "papa" isn't with us. <p>Mad? Yes. Did I express this anger to my H? NO. <p>Do I want to tell the world? Yes. Will I? NO.<p>Do I feel alone? Yes.

Hi T, I am glad to see you posting... wondering about you. Hope you have been busy! Whose child was confirmed...? Was it your friend, his? both, I guess?<p>You do not have to go to these types of things... but I think he showed his TRUE COLORS... by not coming to church and only showing (was it a bit late?) for dinner... ? DId he sit hear you or your D? Was he rude?<p>What a jerk!<p>I think it totally stinks, and I can smell that he is a rat , ! I bet others can to regardless of what you tell them.<p>His best man.... well... you cant expect his best buddies to drop him... they are his friends... my h's friends are totally non trustable right now... as I know they will lie for him... nice to know he has such good buddies, huh?<p>
do not worry about them... <p>CREAM ALWAYS RISES TO THE TOP! and that is you, the creme de la creme! OK!<p>
Hugs, HONEY

It's really tough to see him waltzing around without suffering any consequences. It's a tough position for friends too. I suppose his buddy just wanted to make it all as comfortable as possible. Your poor baby girl <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> That's the most heartwrenching thing to witness of all. I hope things start to get better for you soon. Take care.

Terrified,<p>I sympathize with you. My BIL brought the OW to own son's funeral and sat up in the family section with her! You have to be prepared for the fact that many people want to remain completely neutral and will not take a position or utter a word. They will ignore the damage that your WS caused rather than create any discomfort for themselves. Much easier that way. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Try not to frustrate yourself over things you can't control. Remember, even his friends will behave one way and think another. You know how that is. Playing "nice" is easier than confronting a problem head on. Especially when it's not really your problem, it's your friends problem. And whose to say his friends haven't been involved in something similar, or wish they were. One of my H's "friends" even encouraged the OW to try to kiss him just to see how my H would react. (he turned her down that time, but didn't later [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] ) Also, remember that his friends aren't your friends, and your friends aren't his friends. Yes he was rude and insensitive to your daughter. And yes the friend was insensitive to invite him over, but what would have hurt worse? For him to have accepted an offer of a friend and left without being with his daughter, or to have just walked out after eating? Don't blame the friend for your h's insensitivity. Your H may have painted the friend into a corner and practically forced him to ask him over or else be completely rude.

Hello Honey, Nice to hear from you. It was OUR friend's son. Since he did show up a little late for dinner, he ended up sitting across from me and D. Rude? No, not really but he did ask me to take a picture of him and D. Thanks for your constand stream of encouragement. Really helps.<p>Just received an email from a friend of mine who said she's sick and tired of me focusing on trying to "win him back by

- by not showing your anger
- by working in the garden
- by trying to show independance
- by taking an interest in golf
- by eating
- by taking pictures

All things that you think he wanted you to be like before...."<p>Is she right? I thought these were good PLAN A efforts. I don't know anything anymore.<p>Hi Hope, Wondering about how you dealt with your toddler during your separation? Did you deal with an endless flurry of recommendations as to how to co-parent?? How you were doing everything wrong? How did your toddler react?<p>Thanks Melody & Jam...<p>Hugs

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>
What a jerk!<p>do not worry about them... <p>CREAM ALWAYS RISES TO THE TOP! and that is you, the creme de la creme! OK!<p>
Hugs, HONEY</strong><hr></blockquote><p>T,<p>Just as cream rises to the top so does scum! But U don't see people eating scum by mistake?!?! <p>So keep your head high. Your H thinks he is in the good graces of everyone. U never know what is working in the background. In most cases it is for your favor. Let them befriend him. That is what he needs. To see his real friends vs this fantasy OW. Remember the OW is still far away right? Someone has to guide him back to reality and right now that is not you. Let others do the work for you. If it LOOKS like he is having a great time. Let him think that. <p>U go off and really have the great time without the strings attached to an OP. In the long run who do you think will last? The one living a good and decent life or the one leading a double life?<p>JMHO,
L.

T, Your friends do not understand... MB... so just change the subject... did you explain plan a to them... EVERYONE I KNOW ssays dump the bum.... and ignore him ... etc. <p>At this point I am moving on more.. but I feel it is putting bigger gaps between us... NOW dont go living your life for him... in your plan a..> I do hope these things are things you enjoy... it sounds like they are... <p>DId you not eat before? I am worried about that one... otherwise e verything sounds fine... but good that youa re eating if you didnt.. just good food and healthfully... I am still working on losing weight for me more than for him.. but it hurts to have my H... say I am fat... I am size 8 and used to be a 4... <p>I am considering sweimming todya, so yes.. I wish I was in my size 4 too! But time it takes... and my weight came from my injury and the pills! (gee... funny how my fav. husbnad abandoned me when I needed him most?)<p>Anyway... it is just so hard to believe anyones H would treat them this way... at least ours.... someone we really really loved. I mean if I hated him or something- this would be fine.. but someone I have given my life to for the last 10+ yrs.. and 18 yrs of friendship, etc. WOW... what a bummer.<p>My H is def. in a MLC... he is acting like a teenager... yours reminds me of the teenage actions too... SO IRRESPONSIBLE><p>Anyway, take care of you and dont worry about what others do or think... we can only control ourselves... same goes for your friends telling you what to do... your friends being too nice to h.. and even h acting like an overgrown 2 yr. old...<p>What a bum? THis is the bum who walked out on you and D... remember that.. and it is not your fault as much as he wants to blame it on you.. it is ALL HIS doing. <p>I can tell you are a sweet person and kind from your posts, etc. He is so wrong to do this to you. Be strong... plan a with boundaries.. do not let him walk on you.<p>Honey

Orchid, Really good to hear from you...hard to keep my head up. What do you think about my friend's "winning him back" stream? Should I start going to events even if I dread the faces, the comments, the questions, the stares??? Should I start "acting as if I'm happy"? <p>Hi Honey, Always there aren't you? Even on a statuatory holiday? No, my friends (those who know) think that I'm brainwashed by MB. Don't really believe in the concepts but that's okay. I will persevere. Don't worry Honey. I feel much bigger gaps now too and I feel much "further away" from H. Don't even know what's going on in his life anymore. <p>And yes, I do enjoy those things. I tried to eat very healthy foods most of the time because I believed he wanted me slim and trim. I was a size 0-2 depending on the make. Now, a zero hangs on me. I've lost weight but am eating much more (still losing).<p>Thanks again, sweetie.

Its sounds like you are doing a good Plan A and that your not focusing on winning him back but rather getting on with your life and focusing on you. I hope that is where your efforts are anyway. <p>Why won't you tell the world? I use to protect my H too by not telling anyone and all it did was hurt me and protect him and his integrity (false integrity that is).<p>Have you been in Plan A since October? Thats 8 months. Have you considered Plan B?<p>As far as your friends go thats a tough one. Its your life and sometimes you have to just tell them you need them to listen not offer advise. You need them to encourage you not try and run your life IF they were in your shoes.<p>I'm sorry for your pain Terri, I know it is rough.

T - <p>Remember "The Garden Party" song? There's a line that says,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You can't please everyone; so you got to please yourself. <hr></blockquote><p>You won't be able to please your friend right now; and after the dust settles on your relationship with your husband, you have to live with yourself afterwards. If this does turn out to be an end game you're playing (and you don't get to choose, do you? It's really in your husband's hands), you have to be able to look yourself in the mirror and know that you did everything humanly possible to save your marriage. At that moment, the things that you are doing now will bring you a great deal of peace.<p>T - regardless of what your husband, your friends, your family, his family say, you are doing the right things for YOU. Your friend who sent you this e-mail doesn't have at stake what you have at stake so take her advice with a grain of salt - she's not standing in your shoes right now.<p>(((((HUGS)))))) Keep up the good work!

When H and I seperated our son was just 2 years old. He just thought it was a neat new place to play at. He saw both his dad and I every day, so there wasn't a huge transition for him. There were a few days, though, when we would spend the day together as a family, and after we'd tuck him in to bed we'd hear him giggling and giggling. He just seemed so happy when we were all together, even though he didn't seem unhappy when we weren't. He was 3 when we got back together and I think THAT was more of an adjustment than the split. He no longer got sole custody of the TV and one day he informed me he was ready to go back to Mommy's house. "Mom, I wanna go live with you at your house". I said, why sweety? "Because Dad won't share the TV". Yea, pretty traumatic thing to have to share the TV. LOL! It took him about 3 months to drop the "mommy's house" routine.<p>No, no one talked to us about co-parenting. But we did it better than anyone felt THEY could have...so that was probably why. We each saw him every day, and spent Sundays together as a family. I know...not everyone can do that...but I guess that's why we're still together today. We got along just fine!<p>Don't worry about everyone else. Opinions are like A-holes...everyone has them (unfortunatly some marry them [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] ) YOU do what's works for YOU!

Terri,
As I believe you know, I understand your pain!
I have similar feelings. I felt the feedback you got from Jamup was insightful!
I believe the friends do not know what is best course of action -- I believe from their perspective (which is based on their experience, which may not be all that inclusive of this stuff!), they want to be supportive to both - they define both of you as their friend -- UGGH, not really fair, but I have found similar thing.<p>I have a support group that has been helpful to me -- it follows the 12 step recovery process, just like -- "Alonon" For family memebers of a of a person with a serious obsession. I understand they have support groups for people that have developed a co-denpendent kind of attitude in coping with demands made be a spouse or significant other -- As I see it at least, where the more dominant spouse does not give fair credit to the other's needs & the deprived one so to speak, is continually giving up their needs in an attempt to satisfy the other partner. To take it a step further, the more dominant S may not at all receptive to the idea of reciprical actions, they want it mostly just their way (in a sense, you can understand how this notions is promoted from childhood -- look out for yourself!!). I qualify for this kind of behavior -- co-dependent. This kind of thing is perhaps what your friend is trying to tell you, that it is not healthy for "your" own sense of self worth. I know that I learned to always be considerate of the other person's needs -- to the extent we may unkowingly give up our own needs - we have lost ourself in the other person & unfortunatley this "other person" may not necessarily have our best interest in mind -- For what ever reason, they are not wired that way. Not our fault!!!
This does not mean the more dominanet S is right. In fact, I beleive the domonient S has more severe issues usually, but they tend to have such a grandios illusion about themselves, that they fail to recognise a need to change. It is always the other person with problems (us, the co-dependent! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] ). Sound familar?<p>This support group for co-dependents I believe goes by the name "CODDE" or something like that? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] I assume they pattern their program after the traditional 12 step program like AA & Alonon. Even if your H does not drink a drop, the Alonon program could be helpful -- teaches more indepedence from person with addicition (self interest to exclusion of loved ones!) -- it's not your problem -- to detach ECT.
Here is something I just learned from my group -- it is in the basic readings we go through almost every week, but it just hit me the other day. That is we (Me, people in my group or with tis issue) have become "addicted" to a person or situation. Here is my interpretation. Although person (Our S or SA) treats us with dis-respect & is unkind, we contiunue to pursue a realtionship -this is unhealthy -- that is, if we step back & look objectively (which I realize is difficult if not impossible) what rational, healthy person would want a relationship where is it so one-sided. Where we are treated like a piece of dirt, yet we are the ones continually trying to make amends & modifying our actions to meet their needs -- no "balance" of two people wanting to meet each others needs.
This is where the 180 may be effective. <p>Plan B of course is always there lurking as a reminder of what your next step should logically be -- I understand, you may not be ready for this yet -
I know it is difficult -- I have people tell me I should go to plan B, but I don't. Seems so dramtic -- we tend to not be the dramitic ones!
Prayers are with you!
HH<p>[ May 28, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

Terri,
There isn't one thing wrong on that list from your friend. <p>-Civilized people don't necessarily show their anger, and they do handle it in an appropriate manner.
-Gardening--c'mon, I wish I could spend more time in mine
-Independence--you are just trying, you are succeeding, a sense of personal independence is healthy
-Golf--what's wrong with golf?
-Eating--if I"m not mistaken, everybody eats [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
-Taking pictures--again, it isn't like taking up serial killing [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>What is wrong with your friend? She doesn't seem to have a clear idea what a healthy, productive life is like. I wouldn't worry about her opinion.<p>You are learning to be strong within yourself, you'll probably need to help this friend a little farther down the road.<p>Take care of you.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Terrified:
<strong>Just received an email from a friend of mine who said she's sick and tired of me focusing on trying to "win him back by

- by not showing your anger
- by working in the garden
- by trying to show independance
- by taking an interest in golf
- by eating
- by taking pictures

All things that you think he wanted you to be like before...."<p>Is she right? </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well Terrified, *IS* she right? Are you "playing games" with him in an effort to win him back? Or are you doing these things for YOURSELF? If you aren't doing these things for yourself you are defeating the entire purpose.<p>Sweetie, what the "friends" think is irrelevant. Only YOU and WH lived in your house so only you two can know what it was truly like. I know it's hard to ignore that stuff. But it really doesn't make a difference in your life or the status of your marriage. You need all your thoughts and energy for YOU!<p>Love,
Clear

If these friends know the whole circumstance, is it possible that they are trying to spend time with him to "coach" him to work on your marriage?<p>Is it possible that they are trying to spend time with him to encourage him back to you? Or to find out where his head is at?<p>I guess thats what I would assume rather than thinking that they are supporting him. Have you had any conversations with them after he spent time at their house?<p>Try not to jump to any conclusions! Maybe its good news.