I know this sounds like the craziest question, and may seem impossible. Could WS and BS live together as a family for the children, just for a couple of years? Is there a possibility if both agreed and only for a short period of time?<p>This is not what I want for my M. I want mine to be restored. Im just asking this out of curiosity. What if I get to plan B and decided I do not want to be with this person, but my baby is so young that I want us to raise him as a family for at least a couple of years. Plus this extra time would help the both of us to become more established as individuals to be on our own.<p>Trust me, this is not what I want. But I am thinking of the future.<p>PI

IMHO:<p>Your children learn by following your example. With that said, what would you be teaching them about love, and about marriage? If you can work out an agreement were the appearance is a loving marriage and there is no hateful or screaming matches maybe it is O.K. <p>I am not sure myself. My mother hates my father, but my father loves my mom. Mom used to yell at dad all the time. I used to cry endlessly at night when they were yelling and screaming at each other. I think this had a negative effect on my view about love. I was told this was natural and the husband had to just hold all his feelings in and take the abuse. Boy was that wrong. I think the majority of problems my WW and I have is because I did not share my feelings with WW. I soon resented my wife for some things and started avoiding her and not talking to her. She soon found someone to replace me.<p>Remember that whatever you do, your children are watching and will follow in your footsteps.

Dreamland,<p>Oh my gosh, you have a 5 month old. So you must know how I feel, somewhat.<p>I want the baby to know what it is like to have a family(his family) together. Even if it is just for a couple of years. I just cant see me doing the visitation thing when he is barley 1yrs old.<p>I dont know what will happen. We just may get thru this and restore our M. If not , I think I might be able to live like that for a couple of years. H on the other hand may not be able to. I wont mention this to him. Only if it comes down to that. <p>One thing I do know, us seperating now is not the answer. It will just tear everyone apart. No rash decisions.<p>PI

PI, <p>IMHO, it would be like living a lie. Pretend family. It could make your children and all others who view who wonder, what else are they pretending. Like abuse in the family being tolerated while everything looks hunky dorry. <p>It would also help enable bad conduct (A included). Set a bad example to all especially your children. <p>No, I believe this would not be good. The WS needs to realize he can not have his cake (rotten or otherwise) and eat it too. <p>The WS needs to take responsibility for all choices they make not just the ones they want. Same goes for everyone else. <p>Have you seen pretend families? It is noticeable. They can not keep up the charade forever. Then to know you have been duped leaves a bad taste in their mouths. Where will the respect then go?<p>JMHO,
L.

P I,<p>The question you asked was CAN a WS and BS live together for the children for a short period of time. I think the answer to that is clearly yes they COULD.<p>The answers you seem to be getting are to the question SHOULD a WS and BS live together for the children, a very different question, if you ask me.<p>Of course a couple CAN live together for their children; there are couples that live this way for much longer than a short period. And certainly there are consequences to this kind of M being the example for the next generation. But it can be done, and it is done probably much more than many would want to admit.<p>I am nearing veteran status, I think, with some 16 months of posting here, 19 months of reading and lurking, and 21 months since d-day. To be perfectly honest, there have been stretches of the past nearly 2 years that I have continued to live with my FWH for the children. I am in one of those stretches right now, and it is not the first. That said, I have absolutely no intention of living together in this state for the duration. But, unless and until I am convinced that our M cannot be recovered (whether because too much damage has been done, or whether because I realize that the profound feelings that I used to have for my H cannot be resurrected, or whether because more damage is heaped onto to already steep pile), I will stay and keep trying.<p>My youngest was 16 months old when I discovered my H's A, and my oldest had just turned 4 years old. At first, I still felt some love for my H, but that waned pretty quickly given the very thick Fog that he stayed in for a full year. But, I just could not walk away from our M or even agree to a separation, because I kept thinking that I brought children into this world to be raised by two parents in a loving, happy family and that I could not give up until I knew that the loving, happy family could not be built from the rubble of what our M was then. I did force a separation a full year after d-day, and then we reconciled; but I won't digress any further.<p>The story of the past 21 months is long and convoluted, though summarized in my signature. So I won't go into any more detail; feel free to read past threads, if you wish. Suffice it to say that I have still not given up, though my current situation is something of a hold pattern - to give me time to decide whether I can be healthy and happy in this M and whether our children are better off with us together or apart.<p>My H is now the completely remorseful, repenting, taking responsibility and making restitution kind of FWS. Our children have thrived even in the face of the h**l of the past 2 years. But, I am a wreck. So, while my answer to your question is Yes, it can be done; staying in the circumstances that you envision in the negative recovery scenario that you describe does come at a price. Therefore, proceed with caution and with an understanding that there are risks.<p>Good luck.<p>[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: OneDay ]</p>

I see my M as a temporary arrangement. I'm not sure how my H views it. But I know that he is not facing the A issues, which leads away from marital recovery and toward another A and/or divorce. So, I think the terminology "holding pattern" is a good one. There's no overwhelming reason for me to exit the M right now since my H isn't currently involved in an A, but I can't really feel committed to it without the safety of my H gaining the insight and skills he needs in order to protect the M against his weaknesses.<p>We are getting along well. We have both done a good job avoiding LBs for several months. We do live as H and W. I just know inside that I am not totally IN the M in the sense that I don't envision the future the way I used to as far as taking for granted that we'll be together this time next year or five years from now, etc. I feel like I felt with my transitional boyfriends between marriages. It doesn't really feel REAL or permanent, more like I'm playing house and pretending it is more than it really is--acting "as if" when deep down I know it really isn't.

Thanks guys,<p>Conqueror, I feel like your situation is how mine will turn out. If my H does end his A , I dont see him being truly remorseful or wanting to really make this marriage work. For a number of reasons. One thru a zillion, he can not handle responsibilities, hes not ready to grow up, he really thinks this is all about himself and his pain, he is just now realizing he was fooling himself when he thought he wanted this kind of relationship, he thinks DV is ok, he thinks the kids will be just fine, and so much more, you know all of the fog stuff. The only difference is, he felt alot this way before the A.<p>For us to truly pull through this, he would have to do a complete 360. And I just dont see that happening. <p>Pretty sad for someone to realize this after making a family,<p>PI

PI,<p>I just wanted to inject a little bit of hope in the sense that even though my H is so far not getting to where I need him to be, unprecedented things have happened--he has done some things he's never done in all the time I've known him, positive things. So, strange unexpected things CAN happen. Unfortunately, all we really have at any given moment is what there is at that moment to base our decisions on. The future is unknown, and all we can do is make our best guess about it based upon what we've seen in the past and are seeing in the present.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by P I:
<strong>Thanks guys,<p>Conqueror, I feel like your situation is how mine will turn out. If my H does end his A , I dont see him being truly remorseful or wanting to really make this marriage work. For a number of reasons. One thru a zillion, he can not handle responsibilities, hes not ready to grow up, he really thinks this is all about himself and his pain, he is just now realizing he was fooling himself when he thought he wanted this kind of relationship, he thinks DV is ok, he thinks the kids will be just fine, and so much more, you know all of the fog stuff. The only difference is, he felt alot this way before the A.<p>For us to truly pull through this, he would have to do a complete 360. And I just dont see that happening. <p>Pretty sad for someone to realize this after making a family,<p>PI</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
PI,
U know I am going to interject here to. U may be too tired to hear from me again but well, you can always skip this post, right??!?!? Just kidding! <p>For those of U who haven't had the privilege, this PI is one gorgeous woman with a good heart (even my H commented the same and it was ok by me - LOL!). My family had the privilege of meeting her and her whole family. They are a beautiful looking family. PI's H has not had a hard life. He came from a family whose parents are still in tact. Suriving on the streets from day to day or wondering about basic neccessities was never a real concern for him (I learned this from talking with him). <p>For the above reason, it hurts me so to see another family rendered destitude because of selfish acts. <p>PI, your H is acting like a very immature(quite common attitude in the fog - so he is not an exception case). Now pouts and whines that he wants back his freedom as if he was 18. No can do. The crazy thing is if even 1/2 of what he said about 'finding himself', 'not realizing what he was getting into', giving soooo much and getting sooo little in return' was true, U should have been the one to have an A. At least that is how the babble went in my house. <p>My H babbled about this whole missing feelings thing back to the beginning of time. U know I asked him when and he recinded his response. Now I will qualify this by saying that my H has a hard time knowing how to love due to his history (childhood, bad previous relationships, etc.) but that still was no excuse for him to do what he did and he realizes this. <p>I asked my H for further clarification because I absolutely do not want any of our words to you or your H to be misunderstood. I am writing this for the benefit of your H who I hope will read this. <p>If I ever hear 'from him' that he is misinterperting our words to promote his A, he will hear it from me the next time he calls. <p>Why am I so adamant about this point? Because in the A that is what happens. I sense that pattern is already existing. It happend to me and many others here. The WS is giving several very different versions to different individuals. Basically building lies on some truth with more lies. It turns the truth into lies and then they can't keep track of where they said what and eventually, their wall of lies will come a tumbling down. I have seen this way to many times to not see the signs. They are very evident. <p>This thread contains excerpts from some OWs who post here at MB. They are very interesting show how the WS lies to all sides (BS and OP): <p> http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=018125 <p>In my case, I even told my H that after a while, he babbled so much it was hard for him to tell the truth from the lie. How good is that!?!?!?<p>If you H is smart, he will pay attention, learn and apply what is good. If he is dumb enough to stay in the fog even at the risk of losing it all (self respect, staying lost as a person, losing his family, possibly losing his job, losing the OP, etc.) he will reap what he sows. <p>Remember, my H even slept in his truck for a few weeks off and on. Wow, isn't that a step up in life. Didn't have to be homeless, but in the fog that is what they chose over being with their family. <p>U know at first that made me feel worthless. But then I realized that I was not the one making dumb mistakes.....the WS was. Not only did that help me feel better, that was the truth, without any lies attached!!! That was not fogese talk, that was plain easy to understand english. <p>So, I recommend that you work on U. Let him flounder. Remember no fish can live out of water for long. He is already out of his environment with this OW. He has to continue to add to his fantasy in order to keep it alive (like adding chlorine water), in time the soap opera gets boring even for the OP. That is when you will shine. HOw long it takes to get there is the current unknown. But he is setting himself up to fail and many can see it. The only fool here is the one who believes in the A.... him. <p>Also, don't discount all around you, not yet. In time each will have their own say. Some may just need more time to remove all doubt that the WS is truly a WS (it is a hurtful thing to admit). Be patient and pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. You can also pray for the demise of the A. If your H gives you a bad time about that one. Tell him it was my suggestion. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take Care,
L.<p>[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]<p>[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

Definitely in a situation like this you don't want a rushed decision.<p>In my case I have decided that because of the kids, a longer plan A is necessary. God has renewed my love for H, so I am not pretending. My love bank is doing fine - WH still meets prime emotional need of being a great father.<p>If I went for plan B right now, I think the day the divorce was final, he would be married to her. I want him to think through some of the stuff before he makes a final decision.<p>What will my kids learn? They will learn that I took vows seriously and honored them. <p>I do realize that this may change, if WH starts to fog with them, etc., I'll reconsider, but for now, we are a family.

I can see everyones points. I am so back and forth on what I should do. Not so much as before. I realize I shouldnt make any decisions until I am 100% sure. I am not quite at that point yet. So this may be a long plan A.<p>When WH is acting jerky, I want to Plan B. When I find out more SICK and TWISTED things hes doing, I want to Plan B. Sometimes I wonder if my situation is somewhat different (in the sense that there is no hope). My WH is only 25, not ready for all of this, and a million other things I can now see. Maybe he wants out no matter what. This is how his actions make me feel. Its like hes just getting along with me so I can help him out til we are both ready to go our seperate ways. If this is the case, I will be even more hurt/upset. It would be so much more easier if he just said " Im in love with someone else". But when they do all the "I was fooling my self", "We wernt really happy", "We never got along", "I tried all along", It just makes everything worse. Its like the entire time we were together was a lie. I dont know what to believe anymore. My WH is one of the BIGGEST liers! He was/kind of still is leading a double life. So even if his A ends, how can I ever trust him ? I cant believe a word he says. Im finding out about lies hes told even before the A. And he can think of them off the top of his head. So detailed too. How scary is that?<p>So, I've been trying to picture me life with out him. I need to just in case. Plus Im not sure if I want someone like this. Now I can see all of the other things I dont like about him. The things I just accepted before.<p>I know I can do so much better. Im just stuck. I want my kids to have a family. Something I never had growing up. My baby is only 1 years old. He needs to know what its like to grow up in a home with both parents. I wish my H saw this. He grew up in a home with both parents, so he doesnt know what its like .<p>I will just take my time on this, meanwhile getting my s*** together.<p>Any advise?<p>PI

Hey PI, it's a pretty confusing time for you , but hang in there. He doesn't know how he feels that's why all this is happening, the fog gets thicker each day! The more he lies, the harder his heart becomes, but you know, that the Lord can break through that hardness. Read the email I just sent you, I registered with rejoice ministries, wow it's powerful. Each day I am sent an email to encourage me, and to pray for my WH. The more we pray, the more the devil will stay away! Give up and we give in to the devil, not a good idea! As far as you seeing things in him you don't like, that's just natural. He's ticked you off, but keep praying for him, and God will let you see all the things you love about him again, and all the negative things will not seem so bad, as the good will outweigh the bad.
You're still in my prayers... I hope we can talk again soon!
Love in Christ, M

I know of one situation where this worked short-term. The parents split up, when the baby was 2ish and they were so happy they did this. It gave the father time to bond with the child before they were separated.<p>It is not easy, though. You would have to establish boundaries so that your H was not stealing your self-esteem. This is also posibly where I may go with my relationship as I have two children and one due in a few months. As you said, no reason to push a decision - take your time. It is never easy to be merely a roommate/business partner/co-parent when you are or were in love with the person. I cannot see this working full-time but it is obvious that you don't see that either.<p>I did know one couple who co-parented this way even while the WW was seeing someone. I don't have any idea what it did to the children but they ended up reconciling for a few years and WW had ANOTHER affair. This affair resulted in divorce and remarriage for WW. Every situation is different but I definitely see why you would want to stay together for the baby.

In my first marriage (no affair involved), shortly after the birth of my second daughter, I realized that H was never going to be any different, no matter how many heart-to-heart talks we had, and no matter how often I left (three times). I made a very conscious decision to stay in the marriage for the kids. H is a decent guy, for the most part, I certainly did not hate him. I resigned myself to living in a marriage which was not happy (which, not surprisingly, is exactly what my parents had). Honestly, I didn't know any better.<p>This went on for close to 3 years. It was okay - no yelling, no real arguing, fun times with family, no sex. And then I found out that other people were happy, really happy! That other couples loved each other, and expressed that love regularly, and did nice things for each other, and had terrific sex on a regular basis. I had spent years living the charade of a happy family, while the truth was that we were not. Eventually, I moved to a separate bedroom and then we divorced. My daughters were 3 and 7 at the time, and while they are happy and well adjusted, they identify the day they found out about the divorce as the worst day of their lives.<p>Now in marriage #2, I again made a conscious decision not to end it, in large part because I did not want to put the girls through another divorce. My jury is still out on whether we'll end up recovering (although he is adamant we will). I guess my answer to your question is yes, you can certainly live together as a family and not as husband and wife, but the personal price may be more than you can pay after a few years.