My main thread:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=017689<p>My H is the "my way or no way" kind of person. He is still very much in the fog, but is wanting to talk to me. OW was in town and left yesterday morning - first person he calls is me. Is this because he is lonely? because he misses me? both?<p>Anyway, I really need boundary setting help. I have always been lax when it comes to this and this has been a part of our problem. <p>I want to be there to meet his SF needs, but I'm worried about disease, etc. He insists that he did not cross that line. I know that me not meeting his SF needs has been a big LB on my part and has made him feel unloved. <p>I can I set some boundaries for myself without them appearing to be LB's?<p>Thanks,
Llama

Hi,<p>What boundaries do you want to set? Make a list. Make a plan. Look at the BIG picture and go from there. You know what you want, right? Tell him! What are you afraid of?<p>If you have enough confidence and belief in yourself that you will be okay no matter what he may say or do to hurt you, then you can do this. You must find that place inside yourself. It may take letting go to get there. <p>YOU HAVE GOT TO FOCUS ON YOU NO MATTER WHAT. STARTING TODAY! You can Plan A while in Plan B. You can Plan A for the rest of your life. That is no guarantee that he will change the way you want. You can't control the way he acts, talks, walks, eats, feels, etc... You can't change him. You can only control and change yourself. Don't give him anymore power over you. It is time to trust yourself now. <p>I don't know why we feel we can win the WS back with words. The fog is too thick. Let it thin out on its own. They'll eventually see their way through. When they do and you choose to be there, they will see a different person in you. A change for the better. <p>The M is forever changed. So, what else can you do but change with it? You don't want it back the way it was anyway. Do you? Something led up to the A. You need to figure out what that is before this M can go any further no matter if he comes to his senses or not. You don't want to watch reruns all your life let alone live one. <p>FOCUS ON YOU NOW. Fix YOUR own personal issues. Let him fix his. You can get together after he comes to his senses and fix your shared issues, w/MC. MB concepts can save your M if you let them. <p>Oh! How can he expect you want to sleep with him after all this mess anyway? You need to feel better about your M and H before you can do that. Sex is not going to fix it. You know that. Maybe for him, but what about you? If he can't see that now, then oh well. If he bases your love for him through sex, then something is wrong. The chain needs to be broken, llama. NOW! <p>I wouldn't sleep with him anyway until I knew for sure that all contact with the OW was ended. That should be one of your boundaries. Like I said, sex is not the answer. Don't disguise this. Your feelings are important here. Radical honestly speaking here, YOU CANNOT GET HIM BACK THROUGH SEX. Don't you want more? Deserve more than that? We know you do and so do you. <p>"Having a faithful heart will make wishes and dreams come true." Be true to yourself, llama. <p>Just my thoughts.
INTHECLOUDS

Your WH sounds like mine - books that have helped - Codenpendent No More; 12 Sterps for Codepentdents - both by Melody Beattie; Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. <p>There are also CoDA(Co-dependents Anonymous) groups around as well as many Al-anon groups - go at least 6 weeks to help you work on YOURSELF and dsetting boundaries. These groups are free.<p>Counseling also helps. <p>Also reading any of Bramblerose's posts are good too. <p>It's hard to shift the focus onto you -really it is, but in the end, it's what needs to be done. You'll be able to do it in your own time - just take life day by day, and even take baby steps until you get there.<p>K

Thanks InTheClouds! I need a kick in the a$$ every once in a while, lol! I hear what you are saying. I guess I'm having trouble coming up with the boundaries.<p>Obviously, the #1 is no contact with OW. Another one I have made clear to him if I feel attacked in any way on the phone, I will hang up. That I will no longer accept disrespectful comments from him. Another is not being at his beckoned call all the time. This is difficult with work as I have to answer my phone and he may call. <p>A part of my problem is angry outbursts, which I'm proud to say I haven't had any in some time. I just want to be clear about my boundaries with him - how do you do that without it coming across as a big LB?<p>What were your boundaries?<p>Llama

Hey you! I have a bit of reading to do, then I'll toss you an email tonight or tomorow am.<p>E

LLama, <p>Well....after 10 yrs of M and 32 OW, it clicked that there was nothing I could do to change him or make him see the light. I literally woke up one day and washed my hands of it. One year after D-Day #32, I let it go. (Wow! It took alot [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] - [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ) <p>My Boundaries:
#1 Focus on me and my life
A. How did I get here?
B. What am I doing?
C. What is my responsibility in this?
D. What needs to be changed?
E. What do I want?
F. Can I live without him? Why? Why not?
G. Can he live without me? Why? Why not?
H. What are my wishes, dreams, and hopes?
I. What are my goals?
J. How can I be true to myself?
K. What can I do to be the woman I want to be not who I think he or the world expects me to be.
L. I must love me first and let God do the rest
M. Life is beautiful! Why am I wasting it?<p>I felt that if we were meant to be together we would be. I'm not going to force this man to be with me. He had to want me...us, on his own.<p>Then I started making plans for myself --if we didn't get back together and if we did, what was I going to do for me. How was I going to be different?. I then told him what I was feeling about the whole situation. I knew a letter would not do it. He had to see my eyes. I waited until we were alone and calm (he was watching television). I turned the t.v. off and just told him not to say anything. It's my turn.<p>I told him that he could have her and her him. I washed my hands of it and was leaving it to God. I told him I was letting him go and then I walked out the door without giving him a chance to rebuttle the whole thing. When I came back, he didn't say anything and I didn't mind the quietness. I knew then that I had taken back my power from him. He finally heard me. <p>Later on I gave him my conditions:
#2 No contact with OW
A. I would not and could not be a wife to him until he ended contact with OW. NO EXCEPTIONS.
B. I limited my contact with him until he did end contact with OW. I was not working at the time. I went out and got a job (needed my own money to set my plan into motion). HE HATED THIS. IT CONFUSED BUT INTRIGUED HIM. WE ONLY DISCUSSED OUR D when I gave him the time.

#3 Affair is unacceptable
A. I did not pretend I accepted it.
B. I did not discuss anything about her and their "relationship" unless it was on my terms. I was not going to be a friend to him in this A. That would only mean to him that it was okay with me.
C. There would be consequences to his actions. I asked him to make a choice and if he couldn't I would. I also emailed the OW and told her she could have him. She had a nerve to tell me she felt sorry for me. I told her don't cause I would be okay. It was her who would suffer in the end when they came out of fantasyland. <p>He would not take me seriously until I showed him instead of telling him.<p>#4 No discussions of me or our M with OW
A. I asked him to respect my privacy and not discuss me nor our D with the OW. She has no right to be in our lives. He may want her in his life, but we don't want her in ours nor do we want to be in hers. Leave me that atleast. <p>#5 Have Fun
A. I allowed myself to go out with friends, go dancing, to the movies, bowling, on walks, on long drives, etc.... I was not going to sit around and waste anymore of my life waiting for him. We were living in Germany at the time. So, I went on trips to Paris, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Italy, and Switzerland with friends and when my parents came to visit. Mind you, he never went on any trips with me the whole 5 years we lived there. <p>#5 6 month Deadline (After I found MB)
A. If after 6 months he did not do his part in trying to make this marriage work, then I was out the door. I was saving money for about a year. In February I packed up, shipped everything here, took my D, and left. I am staying with my parents for now to save more money. I start school in the Fall and will be moving to my own place this summer. I have to live for me and my D now. I told him, if he wants our M, he will have to come correct or not at all. <p>Sure I took the risk that it may end in Plan D, but I cannot wait around for him anymore. Life is too short and I have so much I have to offer. He can be a part of it or not. His choice. I can't sit around waiting for him to do all the things he says he will do and doesn't. I'm not willing to ride the roller coaster anymore. I have a life too (7 months ago he told me I didn't..ouch [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] / [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] ). I mean something and I am worth it. He sees that he took me for granted now and it scares him. <p>LLama, you have to find your own place inside yourself that tells you that you are worth it. That place where you know you will be okay no matter what negativity surrounds you right now. You know what you won't accept. You know yourself better than anyone. Don't let fear hold you back. Find that peace within you and the LBs will dissappear. Let go and the answers will come. <p>Just my thoughts.
INTHECLOUDS<p>[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: INTHECLOUDS320 ]</p>

In the Clouds - <p>All i can say is WOW! You're last post hit home with me. I'm doing so much of that now. We recently had taken a week off with no communication and now it seems he's wanting to talk but on "his terms". And you're right about having control over me and not being able to control him nor let him control me. <p>I know in my heart that I do deserve better, yet I know what I've done to lend to our M problems. Sometimes that's a hard one to deal with, especially when alot of it was about not meeting his SF needs. As I uncover the reasons for this, I'm discovering that at times I was punishing him for his bad behavior or not meeting his needs - thinking that he would eventually "get it". <p>And since Dec or Jan he had developed a friendship that went down the wrong road with someone online. Who, of course, was escaping an abusive 20 year relationship with her H. During these last 6 months, my H seemed to be meeting more of my emotional needs and I felt more vulnerable again and my frigid walls were coming down and the sex came back. His "weirdness" that I couldn't put my finger on was the big secret friendship he'd been hiding from me. I found out while he was out of town with his dad and grandma while we were in a stupid fight about nothing. I hit the ceiling - several times. Was "out of it" for almost 2 weeks and now am feeling in more control. My thread shows more of the progress of it all.<p>If you have time, give my thread a read. I really appreciate your support. <p>Thanks,
Llama

Read your threads LLama. My goodness... <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> <p>....my H uses S as a confidence booster. He always has. "It shows him that I love him", so he says [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] . Where's the foreplay? Where's the romance? Where's the loyalty, security, honor, and respect? That's what I say [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . <p>I believe our R was based mainly on S from the get go. Our downfall is, we got M for all the wrong reasons. A baby. He was 20 and I was 21. After we got M things were good for a year. I slacked on the S and he slacked financially. Which leads us to where we are today [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>I have come to grips that we M'd too soon and for the wrong reasons. We were too young and we didn't even really know each other. We dated for a year. I didn't ask him much of anything about his family or his childhood. I felt so much in love that I overlooked the importance of it. H*ll, I thought everyone's family had to be as good as mine. Childhood...what's that? Boy was I slapped back to earth [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] .<p>I know now that my H has some really strong childhood issues to deal with. Until he can deal with them, there is nothing I can do but step aside and let him be. I refuse to be a subject of his pain nor let my D grow up thinking his way is the way of life. I want her to know only the good side of her daddy. That is the only side I want to know.<p>I use to think that as long as we were together, we could do and get through anything. I am his wife. I will take care of him. I will fix it. I honestly thought I could save him from himself. <p>I felt that I could protect him. For years, that is what I did. For years I trained him to expect that from me so much so that he stopped doing it. He stopped protecting us. In EVERY way. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I didn't realize that I resented him for leaving it all up to me. I resented him for not helping me; for not being the man I thought he was. After I found out about the 1st A back in 94, a month before our 3rd anniversary, I died inside.
Unrealizingly, I used S as a punishment, just like you. Should I say, lack of it :razz:. <p>LLama, the drama goes on. Still, there is no excuse for any A. I am guilty of that too. A's are not the answer no matter how much WSes try to justify them. No matter what guilt tactic he puts on you, it is not right, and it is unacceptable. <p>I think your H has you on a yo-yo. He will continue this until you change it. He doesn't know what he wants so he holds onto you just in case. LB-make up...LB-make up...LB-make-up....
Break the chain, sweetie. If you know what you need to do.....then what is the problem? <p>Being afraid to do it on your own? Afraid to be alone? Don't like feeling lonely? You may not have those strong arms around you now, but you don't want them around you now the way he is anyway. You definitely don't want the M to be the same, right? <p>You have to be responsible for your own changing now. <p>He seems to be doing some changing. May not be in your direction or the way you want, but that is his choice; his responsibility. Don't look into it or try to analyze it. It is not the time to be judgemental. That only causes more LB$. You KNOW you don't have to sit and listen to ANY LBing he dishes out no matter how much S you've withheld from him. IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT HE CHEATED!<p>You want this to change, then change it. You want all this mess to end, then end it. Your destiny and your future are in your hands. Grab it!! He'll eventually come around, but you don't want him on false pretenses. Right? <p>Stop allowing yourself to be his yo-yo. You don't have to explain every detail of your life to him anymore. I know it is hard. You consider him your best friend. LLama, those rights are gone until he decides to wake up from this fantasy world he is in. You choose to do a Plan B, then you choose to do it. There is no in between. Stop making excuses. <p>You may have to let go, but that doesn't mean you have to stop loving him. It definitely doesn't mean you are moving on in the relationship field. I think you are mourning the death of your "old" M and the people you and your H use to be. It's okay to let it go. You are gonna have to if you want anything to change. I can't say that enough. You will be O-K. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] It takes time. One day at a time.<p>Just my thoughts.
INTHECLOUDS {{{{LLAMA}}}}

INC - <p>We have ALOT in common. My H has alot of interesting (to say the least) childhood stuff that I knew going in the marriage. We dated over a year before we got engaged and lived together for a year before getting married in 2000. <p>We did all the pre-marital counseling - discussed all the issues, etc. <p>I really appreciate your post. Thanks so much. Please stay in touch! He just sent me an instant message saying sorry about the game being rained out, I said "me too, maybe another time". Then he said "I'm broke." I knew this was coming, because of all the crazy money he has spent since he left. My income (less than his) is our FUN / CRAZY / MAD money. We always seemed to do whatever we wanted - ate out, traveled, whatever.<p>He also has said repeatedly in the last two days now "This SUCKS!" "It all SUCKS!"<p>I can only hope he'll begin to see his sh*t soon. In the meantime, baby steps for me. I don't want to be a yo yo and don't want to be riding that damn rollercoaster.<p>{{{{{{intheclouds}}}}}}}}<p>Thank you!
Llama

I felt that if we were meant to be together we would be. I'm not going to force this man to be with me. He had to want me...us, on his own.<p>(((((THIS IS EXACTLY WHERE I AM AT)))))<p>but I couldn't put it into words!<p>THANK YOU!<p> [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]