Well I really blew it...... Last night at a party I got really drunk and ended up having sex with a girl who was there. I feel awful and I'm not sure why I did it. <P>I called the W and told her and she was of course upset. She said she is going down to file for divorce asap. I told her it was just a one time thing and that I have no intention of seeing the girl again. In a wierd sort of way I feel better, I feel like the playing ground is equal now. She doesn't see it that way, She said she can't beleive that I would add to the problems like that.<P>She said she was starting to feel positive about possibly coming back and now I shot that down. She never hinted anything toward that..... Ever!!! She said she didn't tell me because she was too pridefull. I still love my W. I still want her back, Did I blow it completely ???? <P>I guess I figured that it would help lessen her guilt and lessen my resentment. I honestly don't know if I could have made our relationship work in the future knowing that she was the only betrayer. I need some insight.... I feel like like a jerk...<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Rutger (edited September 12, 1999).]

Rutger - you're not a jerk. You were hurting and drinking and NOT THINKING and you made a mistake - a big one, but still, just a mistake. <P>It's hard to know what our spouses are thinking when they don't talk to us. You should have the opportunity to talk with her again. It doesn't necessarily mean the beginning of the end. YOU'RE trying to forgive her - so you know it's possible that she might try too. Talk to her, talk to her. Tell her what you're feeling. You know she may not listen at first, but keep on trying. If she won't talk - well remember the notes and cards and flowers. You can get the message to her somehow. Remember that even after all she put YOU through, she never expected this from you and right now she is hurt and angry. Hard to see two sides sometimes.<P>Good luck. Don't be so hard on yourself. You just showed that you are human - like her - and the rest of us. If you know what you truly want - then go for it.<P>Sorry, not very good at advice - much better at silent support!!!<P>Lori

Egad Rutger my friend, when you do it you do it up right don't you ? Look I can understand getting drunk and losing it, we all need someone sometimes. I'm sorry but I don't believe your wife for a second, I think she will use this against you, so she won't look like the bad guy, sorry thats jmho. At least you were honest with her, and you were SEPERATED when this happened , how long did she think it would be before you found an outlet for your needs ? Forever ?<BR> Yes you messed up, but if you are willing to forgive her, shouldn't she do the same for you, it's not like you have done this before , have you ? Hang on Rutger, this may make her realize that you are human too, and that she COULD lose you.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

Oh Rutger,<P>I'm sorry that you were hurting so that this happened.....Perhaps it will be a sort of catalyst in her thinking for the good of the relationship.<P>A Big Hug to you and you're in my prayers.<P>Hugs and Strength,<P>Sheba

I am just so very tired.... This has been the most difficult thing I have EVER had to deal with.....<P>Thank you for your responses.... I just don't know what to do. Do I still go Plan A or do I give her a bunch of space to sort it out on her own. After she told me about her infidelity and then left I was on the phone to her all that day telling her I missed her and that I loved her. Go figure.... My phone hasn't rung once..........<P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Rutger (edited September 11, 1999).]

Rutger<BR>You made a mistake. You are human too.<BR>Remember what you felt like when you first found out about your wife. I know that you can understand what she is feeling right now.<BR>She has had a shock. Let it sink in. <BR>Reassure her of your love for her.<BR>You did the right thing by being honest up front. I know you can deal with this.<BR>Let her process this. Say to her the things that you would have liked to hear.<BR>Don't make any snap decisions. Take some deep breaths. You know how much you have already handled. You'll handle this too!<BR>

Oh, how I have felt like doing it too. But my H said he would definitely NOT forgive me. Gee, how I feel so loved !!! He definitely does not sound like he truly loves me at all, huh? I can give him the opportunity to forgive him and take him back with all of his evil selfish ways and suffer daily with the haunting memories of his affair and our separation that we had. but, if I didit FORGET THW WHOLE MARRIAGE < HUH??? maybe I should heed his nonsense and LEAVE HIM>

Rutger.......<BR>Is there any way that you can forward this post to your wife?

Rutger,<BR>My H told me if LAST fall (oh, yes last Sept) that if I had gotten involved with someone (we're talking his sporadic affair, sometimes VERY serious from 4/98-now?) our marriage would have been over. Well, gee whiz, guess what, even though he's been out of the house for a total of 7 non-consecutive months it would be MY fault if he wanted a divorce. OH PLEASE!<P>Your wife is having an affair, you got weak & needy (stupid, hey, I'd wale on you myself if I knew you ) and THEN your marriage is over? My H says because I SAY the OW is a F, F, D, W, S, S, B our marriage is over. Of COURSE it is my words, not his actions that are ending our marriage. You've got the same deal, only worse actions.<P>They JUMP on you if you lovebust or worse. Once again, you decide what you want to do. If it is your marriage, go back to Plan A, which assumes FIDELITY. If not...again, I think your plan of action will be self-defined.

Thank you for all your replies..... You guys make some sense of a situation that makes no sense. I've had another sleepless night and more time to think of it. It comes down to this...<P>The party was the informal reception of my best friends wedding. I was the best man. I had to sit up there with a fake smile painted on my face and pretend I was happy. Don't get me wrong, I am completely happy for my friend. He is great and she is great and they will be happy together. But it just brought back memories of my W. I was so alone and felt so empty. Then came the alcohol..... Lots. Not trying to make an excuse, The situation I was in made it possible ( The counter affair ). This was without a doubt a one night stand. There was no emotional involvement. To be absolutely honest it was a terrible experience.<P>For me this changes nothing..... I love my W. I want to be married to her and only her. I have forgiven her for her infidelity... I hope she can forgive me for mine. I hope she will see the mistake we have both made and call it just that... a mistake. I guess my only action is to let her know how remorseful I am and to continue showing her how much I love her. My concern now is will she believe anything I say or do. Except for this, My actions have shown her nothing but love and forgiveness. <P>I will forever hate myself for what I have done, I feel so bad. Strange how things happen...... I'm thinking of getting her to sit down and talk with me, Or should I let her be alone like I was for awhile? <P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Rutger (edited September 12, 1999).]

Rutger my friend,<P>BOY THAT HAS GOT TO BE THE STUPIDEST thing you could have ever done. But I think you have already figured that out. <P>Remember the pain, the questions? <P>I know how you feel, I have been tempted myself and who knows after a few beers maybe it would have happened. I know that is not what you want though so keep your eye on the ball.<P>It is going to make it that more difficult but it can still work. Don't give up buddy.

Rutger,<P>I know you feel awful right now, but you are human. You are in so much pain right now, that you don't even know which way is up.<BR>You will forgive yourself, and God will forgive you too. He knows that we all make mistakes. Try not to be so hard on yourself.<BR>As far as contacting your w. Maybe you should see if she is willing to talk to you. If she is great. If she isn't, I wouldn't push it. I have a tendancy to overload my H with letters and I love you's, and it just pushes him further away. If she wants her space, as hard as it will be for you, give it to her. <BR>She has a lot to figure out right now. So do you.<BR>Time is the key to all of this. Keep hanging on. You will make it. <BR>Don't give up you dreams.<P>Cheryl<BR>

Rutger- so thats where you were? I had not seen your posts lately. I have thought of doing the same thing (I don't drink it might be tough to allow myself sober though ). Maybe, I will have to vicariously live through your 'mistake'. I agree with the rest of this board, you can both get past it and it might actually help if the wife sees you have intentions of moving on. later

I know that was the STUPIDEST thing to do.... But when you have the equivalent of a 12 pack in you, simple reasoning goes right out the window..... <P>Well my W called me today and agreed to sit down and talk. We met at a park and sat in the grass. Initially it was hard but as we talked further it got easier... The saddest thing was that we never talked like that when we were together so I guess we are both learning something. She says now she knows the pain I was in. She also has no desire to be with me..... She doesn't understand why I would want to be with her. Because I love her more than anything thats why.<P>The big thing for her I think was that she can't understand why I did it. If I knew what kind of pain she would be in why would I do that to her??? She is right.... What the hell was I thinking??? I may never forgive myself and I may never know the true answer as to why I did it... But I know in my heart it'll NEVER happen again.<P>She says she is tired of dealing with this... So I am I. She just wants some sort of normalcy in her life.... She also wants the divorce for sure now... I still don't want that. I did tell her that I would give it to her if it makes her happy and that is my only concern right now.... To see her happier. Like I have said all along, I love this woman and regardless of what has happen in the past I still want to grow old with her.... No doubt in my mind. <P>I know this is long so I'll cut it short... I feel good about our talk... We were two people who were actually able to communicate with each other and also see and understand each other's point of view. I am going off camping for a week tommorrow and told her we would talk more upon my return.. She agreed. So we left it at that and gave each other a hug... A long one and god that was nice ( She smelled sooooooo good ). I know, I got it bad don't I ?? <P>So there you have it.... Someone suggested that I E-mail this thread to her .... What do you think ?????? <P><P>------------------<BR>Rutger......One day at a time.<P><BR>

This thread makes me sick. All I've read up to this point is how awful the betrayer is, how selfish,that the OW is worse than dog poop, a low life, anyone that cheats should have their eyes scratched out ... on and on. Now all of a sudden, this guy goes out, bonks someone he doesn't know, and it's a mistake because he was lonely and hurting, his needs weren't being met, blah blah blah....don't be too hard on yourself. Talk about a double standard. No one validates what his wife might be feeling, since she's the one that screwed up first. It's different, right? I'm sure this Rutger guy is feeling like crap. Believe me I know. I'm there right now, regreting all the things that I did to mess up my marriage, to hurt my husband. Lucky for me, he has forgiven me. I found this board, came looking for help and have gotten it from some. But most of the time all I read is a lot of stereo typical judgemnet from people who have been betrayed about what kind of person they imagine the OW or the betrayer to be. Maybe this should be a lesson to everyone ... take heed lest ye fall. No one is above screwing up and doing stupid hurtful things No one is above having an affair. Sometimes it happens to the best of us. That doesn't make me a *****, or a whore. That makes me human. ( think I read that up there somewhere) How about a little compassion for all parties invloved. No one involved in an affair escapes unharmed. <BR>As for you Rutger, I feel your pain. Funny, you might be able to get over what your wife did to you, but sometimes the hardest person to forgive, is ourselves. Good luck to you.

Rutger,<P>Well, after my own affair (almost one year after it had ended) my H had a one night stand as well. Although, my affair was not disclosed until the time of his confession, but he felt that my emotional distancing before that last year created a rift in the marriage, my selfishness at the time of the affair made him kind of "separate" from me, and unfortunately, was led down that same path. Yes, some of us are harder on ourselves than we could be with our spouses when it comes down to it, and it's a horrible place to be in. Lots of emotions, and no excuses, but you can't, at this point, drag you down even further because it's only going to make matters worse. When my H found out about my affair, he was beating himself up more for what he did than suffering from what I did. Please forgive yourself, just don't ever forget (know I don't need to tell you that). As far as e-mailing this thread to her, do you think (because you know her better) that she would be more in tune with you, and what you've gone through? Personally, I believe it's a good idea. But I think it was K who said once, and made alot of sense, if we can understand what our spouse needs, and not what we think they need and go along those lines, we can reach them far better. Please take care of yourself, it does get better believe it or not. And it's good that you and your W opened up the lines of communication.

I guess you guys haven't understood human nature yet....<P>When you are the cheater you expect forgiveness... when you are cheated on you expect blood.<P>There are reasons when YOU go out and do it... but it is NEVER an excuse when its done to you.<P>YOU are always justified in your actions... but when it is done to you it is a crime.<P>YOU expect to be taken back... but when they do it to you its divorce time.<P>So whats the bottom line?<P>It isn't because Rutger's W cheated first that we do not give her any sympathy here... its because she not only cheated and was forgiven.. but now that she has the shoe on the other foot she is the one crying foul and divorce saying she never thought he would do it.<P>One thing I have noticed with infidelity is that the people who cheat seem to "cling" to their partners loyalty... as if them being unfaithful is ok so long as their partner remains so... like they are the last vestiage of hope for them.<P>My attitude is you NEVER, EVER do something you would not be willing to have done to you... so if you don't want to go through the pain of being cheated on... you DONT CHEAT. Rutger's wife made the choice to cheat on her H and not consider his feelings... to now feel hurt it has been done to her is hypocritical and only shows a lack of love for her H in every way.<P>Not that a person should be let off the hook, but I think people need to get into every one elses shoes once in a while... we seem to like our own and stay in them for ever.

Sorry to hear what happened.<P>Just a few observations on the subject:<P> You say you had too much to drink. [about the equivalent of a 12 pack.] Yea ya did, I'm sure just to dull the painful return of memories from your wedding/married life. Bad move. It's only a temporary fix. I know, been there, done that, got the tee shirt. The next day your'e sober, but, still alone.<BR> <BR> You had sex with a girl. Don't know why. I think you do. Maybe to even the playing field. Thinking that the shoe's on the other hand. If I had that much to drink Mr. Winky would be out to lunch. <P> W states you ruined the chance for your W to come back. I agree with Deb. This is one of the best excuses I have ever heard. My W says the same things. "Well, if you wouldn't have brought up XYZ, I would have come back tomorrow." Yea right. You just made it easier for her to stay away longer and make you feel like [censored].<P> I don't think that your mistake has ruined the reconsiliation of your marriage, just made it a lot more complicated. My W says I should go out with other girls when she's mad. I ask her about it later and she says I BETTER NOT. <P> We, the betrayed and the betrayer are not in our right minds. All are in a fantasy world.<P> The betrayed , me included, repeating this can't be happening to me. I am going to wake up and Val will be next to me. This is all a bad dream.<P> The betrayers repeating this should have happened to before I got married. I found my true love. This is a dream come true.<P> Don't mean to offend you or anyone else on the forum. Just my opinion.<P>Wishing us all the Best<P>Medic

Lost Soul,<P>I think you're taking your own predispositions regarding "human nature" and applying those to everyone. I did NOT expect forgiveness when I cheated, it was the last thing I expected, and in the same context, many betrayed do not "expect blood". There is not one set of rules that apply to everyone, that you seem to state in your posts here. And excuses...you need to realize that many of us who have cheated do not offer excuses, we can only go back and try to find out reasons, this is not excusing what we did. Not one person that I have seen can say that we are justified in our actions when this occurs, and when it's done to us, it's a crime. Quite the opposite in my case, so putting labels on everyone here is counter-productive, and IMO, complete misinformation and blanket statements that has no basis in overcoming this type of situation. But I can say that his W should show understanding at this point, after all he's gone through, and what she's done to him. That's MO.<p>[This message has been edited by Madelyn (edited September 12, 1999).]

Madelyn,<P>Read a little deeper into what I am saying.<P>What I am saying of course is generic. But to say blanket statements are counter productive... Mmmm....<P>Quoting you :<BR>"and in the same context, many betrayed do not "expect blood". "<P>Doesn't the word "many" indicate a generalization?<P>You see it is something we all do and while it is good to look at things on a case-by-case basis you cannot just sit back and say "anything which does not strictly apply to this specific situation is not productive" is like covering your ears and singing "la-la-la" to make it go away.<P>They aren't my own dispositions... they are my observations on life, the results I see of people I come into contact with, and something that constantly comes out on these lists and others. The same things are repeated over and over and over ad nausium...<P>To have these things occur so often makes it VERY easy to see human nature and what is happening.<P>There are two possibilities here... which I am more than happy to entertain.<P>1) My own experiences are coloring my views beyond my ability to distance myself<P>2) You are not reading enough into it and are assuming this to be so.<P>Can you actually come into this with a clear mind and say there is a possibility that you could be wrong? I know I can.