It seems to me from reading posts here that the WS seems to get some perverse satisfaction from the situation they have created. Even when the BS is unaware of what is going on The WS is still going through the motions of being married but is showing signs of stress by being bad tempered and unpleasant.<p>I can remember seriously violent arguments over nothing to the point where I thought a divorce was imminent and at that point I had no idea about the A. <p>I have the feeling that quite often the WS will try to create a situation where the BS will finish the relationship.<p> Why cant the WS do this for themselves and say straight out I have found someone else I am leaving to start a new life?

You make a very good point. Why can't they just admit to it? Probably because they don't want the be the only one at fault as to why their marriage failed. And the WS just wants an "easy way out". Making his or her marriage seem unbareable to the BS so it's "their" idea to end the marriage. Nobody really wants to be the "bad guy" when a marriage fails... <p>Just my thoughts...

Midnite is right, I didn't want to be the bad guy. I was hoping she would realize how wrong we were for each other and just end it herself, I was thinking it would be the easy way out.I didn't
want to hurt her feelings,I wanted us all to be friends.I know now how stupid it was.

This is a very interesting question, I wish more WS's would chime in. <p>In my case, my W began talking about D shortly after d-day (5/01). I continually told her I didn't want a D and she would have to do it herself. She finally filed (11/01), but has not taken any steps regarding it. With the exception of custody mediation (which my lawyer suggested), nothing has changed. I think she may be waiting for me to get frustrated and get things started myself to relieve herself of that burden or guilt. If that's her strategy, it's working.<p>sad dad

H2O,<p>My XW definitely wanted me to take the rap for filing. She said things like "the ball is your court," "what's your time frame?" and crap like that.<p>She is still angry at me for not giving in to her desire to get a quick divorce so she could move 180 miles away to be with OM.<p>I am guilty of trying to save my marriage (to a person who told everyone how lucky she was to have me), preserve a family that everyone said was a model family, and trying to prevent her from moving our then 4 yo daughter so far away from her father.<p>She always got angry if things didn't go EXACTLY her way.

My stbx once said to me that he wished I hated him. Well he has almost got his wish.<p>I will file for divorce in July, but it si not something I saw myself doing a year ago. I just need my self respect, and this is for me.

In many cases the WS does not want to end the M, but is fulfilling his/her ENs partially by the BS and partially by the OP, so they are not necessarily wishing to end one or the other R.<p>In fact, in many cases, the WS does not see the second R as damaging to the M; quite the contrary; they see it as "beneficial".<p>I suspect this is the case more often than not.

Because it's much easier to blame somebody else. That way they can say "See what an awful spouse I have? They filed for divorce so I have every right to pursue another relationship."<p>My H also did this. During the fog of an affair, nothing is surprising.

My H actually said to me back in January, "this would be so much easier if you just left me." He didn't and I think still doesn't want to be the bad guy.

I haven't a clue what my WH is thinking other than he is definitely a "cake eater". Well after 3 years of this and my being "fooled" by WH into thinking and believing the "OW" was out of picture, I am now in "PLAN B" with him.<p>WH had started telling me loved me, missed me and etc. Wham in April, I find out he is still involved with "OW". Well, time will tell if she can be his "everything" because I have removed myself from the triangle. And I did it for "ME".<p>Not going to play second or be used anymore. Still love my WH, want our marriage to rebuild and thrive but "NOTHING" is going to happen between us until WH "chooses". <p>He left, he betrayed, lied, created secret life and he'll have to end it if that's what he decides. In the meantime, I'm taking care of me, growing in my personal relationship with "GOD" and WH, ME and our marriage is all in "GOD'S" hands. Safest place for us!!!!!!!!

Last nite, my H said he wished I'd tell him that I'd be okay if we got a D. He wants me and OW to both be "okay." He wants me to do it (the D) so he won't have to.<p>I told him that I won't do it...if he wants a D, he can start it himself.<p>He goes back and forth so much that I don't think he even knows what he wants.

I sometimes wonder about this topic. I think back and see times when he was pushing my buttons for no reason just to start trouble. Almost "making" him look bad so I'd leave him. <p>But I totally agree with Dani's post. My H doesn't know what he wants. I'm taking care of ME and I'm off the rollercoaster! (I do have to keep reminding myself of that of course - just about every minute! lol!)<p>Llama

2-4 weeks before D-day, my XH began acting very strangely. He was bringing up all sorts of things that ended up in big fights. He kept picking at things... trying to make it look like we were miserable, and later used all of that to try to prove that we had been unhappy (BOTH of us were unhappy, "cuz see? - -> You said this and that.. PROVING you've been unhappy too!!!") - trying to prove that we didn't belong together - and that I was such a horrible W that he had to get away from me.<p>It's almost like he was building a case to justify the end of the marriage.<p>I even said in one of the arguments, "WHO have you been TALKING to??" because everything he was saying was so strange!!! Little did I know, an EA was going on.<p>[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

My FWH never asked for a divorce, but he became very critical and was always ready to blow up at the least little thing. Living with him (when he was living two lives) was like walking on egg shells. <p>When I was in the WS pea-soup fog back 7+ years ago, I asked my H to just leave and let us both move on. I didn't have the guts to do it myself, and I knew deep down that wasn't really what I wanted anyway. Once, after I begged him to just go so we could all "move on", he packed a suitcase and made it to the front door - sobbing. In a rare moment of clarity, I knew it was wrong to send him away, so I threw my arms around him and told him not to leave. I also remember wishing H would just find someone else - again - so it would be easier to just make a "clean break" (as if!). Little did I know he already had someone else and was working on an intense EA/somewhat PA. <p>All of that seems so distant now...it's really like it wasn't even me. When I replay it in my mind, it's like watching a bad B-movie in my head. My H NEVER asked any questions about OM or about that time. I honestly think he was relieved that I had an affair so he wouldn't have to feel so guilty about his EA/PA a couple years earlier (or the EA he was already in). <p>Boy, how screwed up were we?!? I thank God every day for His mercy and grace. My H and I are best friends. The thought of getting close to another man again makes me physically sick, and I'm not exaggerating. I gave away my character and integrity, and became a woman I'd always looked on with disgust. How totally stupid. <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> <p>My H and I are a perfect example of how you CAN recover from infidelity and come out happy on the other side. I'm so thankful we BOTH wanted that! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] It was a gift, and I don't take that lightly.<p>at peace<p>[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: at peace ]</p>

H20,<p>In my WW's case, when I was in the dark, she was not being bad tempered and unpleasant. Too much cake to enjoy. In fact, our sex life was actually on the upswing due to what OM was somehow inciting her. She'd come home from the "gym" and would be randier than a lionness in heat--perverse isn't it?<p>However, upon discovery day, she was expecting a blow-up on my part and that we would therefore "have" to divorce. She had discussed this eventuality with the OM who had said that he was available for "support" at any time since I was expected to go off the deep end. Well, sorry to let them down, but I did not go crazy (mad though, and she knew it!) and treat her like crap. And especially after discovering MB's and getting counseling.<p>As described on the MB website and by the veterans on this board, this is actually the meat of Plan A--avoiding LB'rs and not giving the WW/ WH anything to hang their hat on. It's about going against your instincts--to fight back or run. You know, stealing their thunder and putting the A in HER (or his) court. <p>In the early days of discovery, I did ask (even pester) my wife several times: Why didn't you just do the honorable thing by divorcing me and then pursue someone else? Well, knowing now how A's can happen and the dynamics involved, it's no surprise to me why this happened without her asking for a divorce. The OM was (has been) just satisfying a narrow range of needs. Eating cake on both ends tastes too good (at least for my W)! I don't think she was consciously trying to end our marriage. As WRONG and DISRESPECTFUL as her actions were, she was trying to get her unmet needs met, but in the worst possible way. In fact, she had the gall to propose that I pursue my own A on the side and we would just keep up appearances as a married couple (yuck!).<p>So that's why, after reading SAA, etc., I knew it made sense to pursue Plan A and avoid blind, instinctual reactions. Like many A's described on these boards, her A is built on a house of cards. So with a little knowledge and a lot of iron will thrown in, it's better to take a thoughtful approach to the situation and sit it out--but only for so long, of course.

Hi,
Ok I am going to take a chance here and respond. I am a WS who had a EA and my wife and I are in now in recovery. Now this topic has come up between my wife and I as well as with my IC. Now remember, I am out of the fog so I can take a step back and look at things from a different perspective.<p>What I was doing was trying to justify my A by having forcing my W to LB me. I would do all the things you folks have mentioned above. The fog hazed my view of reality and the love I had/have for my W. I wanted her to hate me, this way I had the reasons to do what I was doing. I guess I knew the A was wrong the whole time but spent time and energy lying to myself about it. I did this to protect myself from the guilt. I was never a selfish person when it came to giving, but around the time of the A I was nothing but selfish.

Faith - You said: "I even said in one of the arguments, "WHO have you been TALKING to??" because everything he was saying was so strange!!! Little did I know, an EA was going on."<p>Oh boy do I know what that's like.. it's like he's beeing spoon fed by some veryyy manipulative woman! My husband would talk one way when she was no where around.. and then when I "knew" he wasn't alone.. he would talk like someone I didn't even know. (Because we were in 2 differnt states, most of the conversations were on the phone or email or online chat) It was weird.. I too asked my H who the hell he was talking to because I "KNOW" he didn't just make this crap up all by himself! And I told him that there "Must" be some woman spoon feeding him this crap.. turned out.. the OW was indeed telling him things to say to me to "make it easier on me"... I just laughed and told him that the ONLY person that knew how and what would make it easier for me.. would be ME. If your interested in my story.. below is the link... Comments and Advice are always welcomed.<p>We learn from each other,
We grow from each other,
We get strength from each other,
We need each other.<p>Take Care,<p>Robin in Germany [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My Story

Wow, here is my story reflected! Right before Dday, WH became weirdly critical, so much so that I couldn't possibly take it personally, I just thought he was stressed out, he said strange things. Then after Dday, aha!<p>But I too am positive that he was hoping that I would kick him out so that he wouldn't have to face what he did and make hard decisions. So far I haven't, partly because I want him to be the "bad guy." How on earth would I tell his adoring kids that I am the one who made Daddy leave?<p>And then too, there are the baby steps he is taking, though A continues and continues.