hi all-its me again. i have been taking stock of my whole situation in the last few days and am starting to wonder if i can really do this much longer. i have been thinking of asking husband from his perspective how is this marriage different for me from the one we had before. i wonder if in his mind it is. unfortunately its not really. my needs still go un-noticed. i feel that there is no real difference for me. there are many differences for him, because i have changed alot and grown, but i am stuck with the same old thing. i cant say it is bad, its just not dealt with. all we discuss is what he wants to throw out there, his work, his problems at work, his friends problems etc... we still dont discuss us. <p>im not sure if this is what i want-i look at him sometimes and just ask myself why am i here. i know a lot of you will say this is normal, and that i am here because i love him. i do, but feeling as if there will never be more for me makes me want to give up. it brings back all the reasons i shut down emotionally the first time. i dont feel loved, protected, or special. i feel as if we are exhisting day to day. i do all the work and he coasts.<p>how do you figure out all of this, im afraid im running out of gas. just dont know what to do anymore. if youve been here, please help me.

Hi nikko,<p>Just wanted to let you know you're not alone here. I'm feeling pretty much about the same way. I keep thinking it's all part of the process - the ups and downs, and I keep hoping it will even out soon.<p>Have you tried talking to your H? I know I usually have to initiate any conversation about us and it's getting old. I've noticed though, when I put the effort in and we have a good conversation, I feel better. Just haven't had the energy lately. Hope you feel better soon, sorry I don't have any words of wisdom.<p>H&S

i have talked to him, about just everyday stuff and i have initiated the big conversations too. i read 5 languages of love recently and thought it was great, asked husband to read it, and well there it sits. he just doesnt put in any effort. i think he believes we can just coast through this. i bet if i said something he would be shocked, because all his needs are being met and he has it great, the perfect marriage to him. i just told him i won tickets to the baseball hall of fame induction weekend-very hard to get, its a lottery to get the tickets-he is excited, and it will be fun, but im getting a little tired of everything we do is for him. he hasnt once done something like this for me, not even tried really.<p>i guess i feel as if i do or say anything it will be a selfish demand or sound like a threat, we cant change others and force them to be who we want, and i guess im just wondering if i will settle for this?? that scares me-ive never been a person to settle. i just dont see him putting in the effort. i guess by staying and not throwing a fit when d-day came around, i wonder if he thinks ill settle for this too??<p>any thoughts??

Hi Nikko,
I guess a lot of us have been in this position. At least you're in recovery, my WH hasn't come home yet, but we are talking and it should be soon. I was sick of the whole elephant thing, and kept lovebusting, so when I found out the 3rd time he was still seeing OW, we both deciced he should leave. I will not have him back until he is ready to work on this marriage, not just act like everything's fine. WH almost came back last week, but I told him until he can be accountable, and ready to work, he shouldn't be here.
I hope your situation improves.
What about counseling.
KK

dear kk-i read that thread about husband coming home, i wanted to reply but couldnt. i felt like what could i add about boundries. im so glad you set yours. i guess when we discussed the shooting the elephant thing, he didnt really understand that i cant and wont live like this forever. i guess its time to go hunting again.lol i just feel as if i am being pulled in so many different directions right now-and always-between trying to keep marriage together i have a soon to be teenager that triggers migranes on a regular basis-one being right now-it is just so hard to be everything to everyone, and not get that in return. Im starting to understand why people run away from their lives. that is scary to me.

bumping for me-i need some help here-i have been in and out of sleep all day-cant shake the depression. starting to have panick feelings again, the tightness in my chest and having to remember to breathe and swallow. i hate this.

Do not go off the anti-D---> and this thread is why! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Rollercoaster making you dizzy Nikko? The ups and downs are exhausting. But ... it is what it is .... a wild ride with twists and turns .... speeds up ... slows down ... wear your seat belt at all times! Keep your hands and arms inside the moving car.<p>What is it you are looking for from your H? Please describe in very exact wording detailed descriptions of the behaviors and actions you would hope to see within the next 6 months.<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi - nikko, I think you are writing my story. After d-day #2 WH with my agreement moved out. Now he wants me or him to sleep over again filling his needs. Please take care of yourself. I had a massage & that felt great, it was totally for me. I know I can meet all WH needs, but not at the expense of him not changing.
Right now WH is not only in the dark with his children & myself, but he left the community & his dear friends without any explanations.<p>I finally just say I can't do something and offer no explanation, that way we don't expand on rationalizations. I also started saying what I want - a devoted husband for starters, along with with fidelity. Devoted - my male coworkers in the past used to say "Man WH as got it made," they would be happy if they didn't have to do things for wife & family. I always felt at least they were showing their love for their family. When they made this statement I didn't say how unhappy I was. I know how you are feeling - You have changed, but you don't see any actions from WH. I am still waiting. <p>I liked pepperband's advice - Tell WH exactly what you want - the end product, but don't tell him how to get there. Hold him accountable & responsible for his actions. <p>I have the same tightness, do something for yourself, if nothing else than reading on these boards. The people here have been my life line for doing things for myself. Then later I am ready for my kids in a new light.<p>One of the things someone gave me is a cyber-hug.
It does work - knowing that someone else cares.
((((((((((((((((Hug))))))))))))))))))))))<p>It looks like you have many friends here, just keep us updated. Buy yourself some flowers, I went out & bought some bedding plants. I need to get them planted, but it has been real windy today.<p>I can really related to the feeling of running out of gas - "The surrendered wife" just says to not rationalize, but just tell people you can't. I used it last night - it worked!!!! WH still didn't show the concern or protection for me, but atleast there wasn't the pressure to continue the discussion & LB.<p>Hell of a ride - I hate it.<p>Vega

A couple of things come to mind.<p>One is, do you REALLY know who your husband is? Do you really feel he is capable of being the partner you want? The biggest reason for that question is the conversation you mentioned the other day...bottom line with him seems to be the bottom dollar. If this is how he chooses to live his life...you need to make your choices accordingly.<p>The other thing is...how have YOU changed the dance? In what way are you a different wife? From what I've read in Passionate Marriage if you start living the life you want YOURSELF...he will either react in some way...or again, you make your decisions accordingly. I don't mean what are you doing for HIM...I mean what are you doing YOURSELF.<p>If your marriage is the same as it was before...are you the same as well? Maybe try some changes there?

Niko,
Like was just mentioned -- know that you ar enot alone!
You should check out my story -- I think it is pretty sad & I have many a periods of self pity -- in some way it feels good -- like tio vladate our feelings for example.
From my experience I believe that the WS is in a certain frame of mind many times that makes it very difficult for them to truely feel or have a sense of how we the BS, feel!<p>This is a whole lot more thier issues than ours. We just happend to feel most of the brunt!! They had thier ego busted with validation of this extra attetnion - they are in a zone of self-fullment or something -- they just don't feel for us --perhaps too much guilt -- if they ignore it or pretend our pain is not there, that it will eventually go away and they are of the hook, so to speak, in terms of thier "guilt" feeling (if they are there, cause I know in my case it is hard to see, but it may be there, none the less.) And everything will continue -- no consequences -- why not if they can get away with it!
We have to be strong!
Hang in there, tomorow will be a better day!
Peace,
HH

im back-tried to run some errands with youngest son and his friend-hit the new bakery in town.not even sweets are pulling me out.couldnt even eat them. not sure why i am falling so deep-cant figure out what triggered this-other than everyday stress.husband didnt do anything in particular, i just feel as if i have been drugged.<p>now on to the responses-thank you all for the encouragement-if i miss someon, bare with me, im in my own fog.<p>dear pepper-my friend, thanks for the reply. i am feeling so down-havent felt this way since right after d-day. really bad.
i have thought about what you asked-what do i want. i want a husband that shows me affection, protects me and shows he cares. i just got off the phone with him-he is still at work. he asked about my day so i told him it was really bad. i told him i was in a depression. he asked why? i know i may get jumped on here but im gonna say it anyway-DDUUHH!!!(a little advice to any ws reading this-please dont ever ask why we are depressed-i think the reason is obvious.) if you need to ask-ask more detailed questions or just offer support. i got neither of these. i know i sound really bad-so i know he knows its bad, he never asked if i was ok or anything. just skipped onto his day being great.
so pepper, i guess i want the simple things-someone to care for me and protect me. support me when im feeling blue, to care about me. i cant even begin to start with the big stuff-im at the point i would take anything.<p>dear vega-i have layed everything out for him and put it allout there the night i shot the elephant.he has a copy of my en's, god knows what he has done with it. he just has other priorities. he has never left, so our situations are a little different, in that way. im just tired of carrying the load.<p>dear hope4future-i thought i knew who my husband was-i was wrong. i never thought i would be here. family was everything to him. yes he is capable of what i need-he use to be that way-affectionate. i just think he has become someone else.<p>as far as the dance and changing, i have done a really good plan a, for myself and him. all his needs are being met. i have learned and grown alot. i have changed the way i approach things and have thought through the situations before i spring them on him-i use to go full steam ahead.
the problem i have is before i always did for myself-he is not home much-and he hated it. resented i had a life without him. so that was part of the problem-so i am a little skiddish when it comes to me, for now.<p>after all this time how do i enforce what i need or set boundries. he has been told of them and has a copy and still does nothing. i need more. i need him to understand i cant go on like this forever, but cant say that cause it sounds like a threat.
at least i know tonight will be interesting-i have no idea what im gonna do.

I have been going through the same things for the last 5 months. Things don't seem to get better and I am about at the end of my rope. I need some hope and encouragement before myself falls apart even more than it has. I love my guy but find it very hard to trust and let go.

first off-dear pj-welcome to the boards. thank you for posting to me.im sorry you have to be here. post us your story and maybe we can help.<p>well its a new day-i do feel a little better. hopefully it will continue. thank you all for being here-and pepper, i will get a better list together as soon as i really have my head on straight. its to important to do in the wrong frame of mind. see the fog is clearing. still kinda feel drugged though.<p>anyway, on to last night. when hubby came home he offered to take us to dinner, so i wouldnt have to cook. i allready fed the boys-son snd friend-and they were playing. i really didnt want to eat-no appetite. we stayed home. he then came over to me and started to rub my back and neck-and promised me a massage later. i was thrilled. i massage him regularly-yet he never offers. i really needed it-i waited till 11:30 to get it-but i did get a massage. we then fell asleep in each others arms. i slept till 8:30 this morning-i am usually up at 5. even with all the sleep yesterday-i slept like a rock. anyway i guess i got some of the things i was asking for-i just wish i didnt have to be that near the edge of darkness for him to realize im not ok.<p>anyway on to a new day....

8 months on I feel like I should be the one who had the affair!<p>It is reallllllly hard going and seems like a lot of effort for no reward.<p>The last conversation I had with my wife focussed very much on her guilt holding her back. She "cannot beleive the person she became".<p>Try talking to your husband - ask him what HE feels about the last year of your lives. Where is he up to in his own personal recovery?<p>Good luck.

Nikko~~<p>If you went to your H today ... and, he's feeling relaxed, and he's not pre-occupied ..... and you can tell this is a good time to talk ... so you say to him:<p>"Mr. N ... I thank you for all you've done lately to improve our M since D-day. I know this is difficult for both of us ... We have made progress, and I am grateful and happy for all progress, big or small. There is one thing I would like to request. I'm hoping you would make an effort to increase my sense of being protected in our M. I'm still insecure at times, and I know you are strong enough to help me out. What do you think?"<p>Nikko~~~~ What will you say if Mr. N asks you what he can do to help you feel protected? Have your criteria ready in your mind. Not vague stuff ... really specific, a detailed roadmap, a blueprint to pleasing you. He probably doesn't feel secure that he CAN please you. Then, when he makes even the tiniest progress .... praise his socks off!<p>
Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

well weve had a really great day and i am definately on the way up again. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>thank you pepper-i am gonna do this tonight-we are gonna have some private time(if i have to tie the kids up and put them in the closet... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] lmao.) thank you so much for the map of what to say. i know he will be positive about it. he allways is. i just wish he would be a little more pro-active at times, and i think i am goona mention this to him. thank you all for being here when i need you-i hope i can do the same for you all-pepper,you have helped me over and over..and im sure i will need you in the future..thank you so much. i am gonna go enjoy the evening with hubby.<p>oh yeah-for a laugh....we just got this huge bbq-6 ft long-it has a rotisserie. i have never used one of these before so decided to try. put two chickens on-one is great.....the other is incinerated!!!!! i laughed so hard i had tears in my eyes.