I had to post for myself today. I am feeling very sad. I am not getting much sleep. Our five month old still is waking up 4 or 5 times a night and once I wake up I can not seem to go back to sleep.<p>On the way home from work yesterday, my WW called. She said she talked with the OM. My heart sunk into my chest when she said his name. I could not speak. All the pain and agony came rushing to me all at once. She has not talked about OM in a while, and I have not brought up OM.<p>Up to that point, I had been feeling pretty good for the last week. It was my first good week in a long time. I had more ups than downs the whole week and I was finally feeling good enough to start to put effort in at work. At the mear mention of OM, in a flash, that was all thrown out the window.<p>The OM and OMW are seperated now, and the OMW knows about the A and my WW. My WW is on maternity leave and is set to go back to work in June with the OM. She has been like a Yo-Yo about going back to work. Last time we talked she decided not to go back to work. Since I have talked to the OMW, the OMW knows that my WW is supposed to go back to work this month.<p>The OMW told the OM that if WW goes back to work she will call his office and tell them about his A. The OM told my WW about this and was rather jovial about the whole thing. This upset my WW. She understood that he was happy because he was sure that this would clinch that fact that my WW will not go back to work. OM was thinking only about himself and not about how my WW would have to give up her career.<p>My WW and I talked about what to do now. We agreed that she should talk to her boss and see if she could come back and work for a different area so she would not have to support the OM. This would be a difficult thing to convince her boss without telling her about the A, but there is a good possibility that her boss would bite. We agreed that this was the best thing for my WW and that is all that is important. I told her to prepare herself for the OMW to call the office and spread the news. I also told her that she could try and head things off by calling the OMW and telling her that everything is over between OM and OMW. My WW did not seem to like this suggestion. I can tell she is still not ready to give up the OM.<p>We both agreed that even if her boss lets my WW come back and support another group, there is the possibility for her to have to occassionally suport the OM. I asked her if she is strong enought to deal with this and the fact the he will probably pursue her again once she went back to work. I told her he would probably do what he did last time and come in after hours and on weekends when my WW goes to work to pick up things so that she can work part time from home. She said she was not sure if she was strong enough for this. I reminded her that she tried to break things off in the past and it did not work, and she responded that now things are different.<p>I know how important my WW's job is too her. She loves working for this large company and she loves what she does. I am willing to put up with anything for her hapiness and I feel foolish and many of you will probably agree. I know that if she does go back to work, it will put a big strain on our relationship because I think it will take so much longer for their A to die and it may even be rekindled.<p>I am so depressed and sad and I am tired of being the nice guy all the time!! I love my wife so much, but I am tired of being trampled on. If I were in my WW shoes, I would quit my job and find the strength and energy to find another one. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] I have tried to encourage this, but she does not want to try to find another job in the same field, she said it would be too hard. She has considered doing other jobs at home like book keeping etc., but this will not be fullfilling. We do not need the money. I just want for her to be happy. <p>I think I am going to quit this Plan A stuff. It hurts too much. It is now 8:35 here and I normally call her before now. Since it is a routine, she is going to think that something is wrong, but I do not care.

I am sorry that you are feeling lousy with the present state of your M, but if you do not plan ahead then you will more likely be heading for divorce. What do I mean by planing ahead? That you face the reality that at this rate your love for your WW will be gone before you have a chance to implement a plan B and then you won't give a da** about going into plan B and just go straight for divorce. You may say this is not the case, but like the old saying goes never say never.

DL;
I'm sorry to say, but I think you have not yet reached the level of Plan A that you need to reach in order to be ready for Plan B, or to possibly have an effect on your WS.<p>I know it's hard; believe me! But you must reach a stage where you feel a lot better about yourself before this is ripe. We all feel like we just want to put our arms down, give up, and leave it all in God's hands...but must not succumb to that temptation. Hang in there, you had a bad day, we all do; tomorrow will look better. Don't make a mistake now.

Dream,
If you are quitting Plan A, what is it you are going to do? Lovebust? Not a good idea under any circumstances. Plan B? Ok if you feel you can go to Plan B feeling as if you have done all you can, with no regrets. Divorce? That always remains a choice.<p>Are you just going to stop being a nice guy? You really think that will help you?<p>You may want to draw some boundaries so you don't feel trampled on. I used to tell myself that I was following my goal toward the possibility of reconciliation and tried to look only at my own behavior, not that of my H's. Difficult, yes...but I did it over an 18 month period, sometimes with more success than others as we separated and reconciled the first 6 times.<p>Whatever you do, think about it in terms of whether it will cause you regret. Wishing in the future you had done just a little more now won't be a good feeling.

Dreamland-<p>I'm with everyone else on this, don't quit Plan A because it isn't time yet. I sense that the A isn't the only thing that is hurting you, having that little one waking you up all the time is wearing you out and affecting your mental health. Wait until they become teenagers, then you really wont get any sleep!<p>Just a few things that I am seeing that hopefully give you can see as positive as well:<p>- W told you she talked to OM, yes that is unacceptable to a good recovery, but why did she talk to him? Was it strictly work-related, or was it more? I think it was work related only.
- OM seems to be trying to force W out of the company, what better LB could there be? He is trying to come out of this as the winner, really trying to save face and I'll bet the closer the day comes for W to return to work, the more desperate he becomes.
- W is uncertain of what she wants to do, she knows she doesn't want to work with him, how come?
W is not sure if she can resist any attempts by him to re-establish the A, that's good for you.
- OMW is probably the biggest ally you have right now. No, I wouldn't recommend starting up any kind of correspondence with her, but I think you know where she stands with all of this. Let her put the screws to OM and make his life miserable, it can only lead to more LB-ing on his part towards W. You know their M isn't over yet and I'll bet that they will be back together real soon.<p>Look, you have a lot going for you, don't give up yet, you've come too far and there is too much at stake here. Next to the OM-SOB I have had to deal with, yours is the most spineless jerk there ever was! Keep doing that Plan A, your W wants you and needs you and she is making that clear. Let her know you are the one, not OM. Let OM LB this thing to death because he is halfway there already.<p>Let W talk, I know it is hard to hear about OM and the A, but as long as the conversations are centered around stopping all contact and reconciliation, listen and offer support. Let W come to you, which she is doing, and avoid all the LB's so she can see you for who you really are. Maybe offer W this suggestion, stop all contact with OM and let him wonder what she is going to do about coming back to work. He is on the ropes here and everyone knows it, let his conscience and guilt eat him up.<p>You are doing great, dont give up, keep up the good work!

Only you know when it is time to Plan B.<p>Here is a blurb re: Plan B from this link: <p>What are Plan A and Plan B<p>Blurb:<p>But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the betrayed spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again. <p>Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the wayward spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other. <p>So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B. <p>Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B. <p>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<p>Keep in mind Plan B is about preserving your love for your WS it is NOT to be done as punishment. The outcome is possible that in Plan B your WW run straight to OM (especially since he is separated). But where your heart is that may not even matter to you. ONLY YOU know what is best for your unique situation.<p>Have you done a pretty good Plan A for 4 months? I would think that lays a pretty good foundation for Plan B. ONLY YOU know IF you are ready to take that risk.

TooMuchCoffeeMan,
Right now, I would not be objectionable to a divorce. I do not want a divorce, but any decision out of her right now instead of this flip flop thing would be great. I hate the fact that she gives me all of this hope by her actions and then I find out that she has been talking to him or considering being with him for the rest of her life. It is the ups and downs that are so painful. I want things to just be stable so I can deal with it, whatever it is. I love my wife deeply and I guess that is why it hurts so much. If the pain goes, I guess my love is gone too.
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Spacecase,
I think my Plan A is perfect as far as what my wife can see. She has been making very good progress. I count the cell phone minutes to OM every month and the minutes have dropped from a peak of 190 to around 20. I am just not sure how much more of her indicision I can take. I feel like I am at the edge of a cliff waiting for her to push me off. Just when I have prepared to fall and I am leaning over, she pulls me back. The next day, she nudges me close to the edge again. This is a terribly frustrating and painful thing to prepare for the worst and then be given hope and then have the hope taken away from you, only to start the whole process all over again.
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Lor,
I do not feel like doing Plan A or Plan B or D or LB's. I just want to exist and start to have fun again instead of wondering if I will be able to come home and play with my wonderful two boys again and if I am going to find that my wife has packed her bags when I come home.
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loveherstill,
Maybe I am wrong, but I do not feel like we are in recovery. She has not agreed not to see or talk to him anymore. She will not even agree to stay with me and try to work things out. She still is at the indecision stage. I guess she is waiting for life to make a decision for her. I think they still talk daily. I am not sure anymore what she is doing. I spy very very little, and I do not ask many questions about OM, only when she brings it up. The last time we talked about her plans, she said that if we got divorced her and OM would mary. They even picked out an area to live. I would have to drive almost an hour to see my boys. I told her that that was unacceptable. I am not going to make it convenient for the OM.<p>I think the only reason my WW does not want to work with OM is because with everything that happened, it would be uncomfortable for both of them. She also knows that she is not strong enough to deal with his advances. She has not sent a no contact letter to OM and I do not know if she is close to doing this or wants to do this.
-----------------<p>Any opininions on my wife going back to work? Is this a mistake? Should I try to get her to forget about it and find another job?

This is the first time I have responded to someone elses post. I know many of you dont like me and probably could care less about what I have to say. But Dreamland has encouraged me alot. <p>My heart goes out to you. Even though my W has not had an A...at least to my knowledge, I do believe I KNOW how you feel. It is so difficult to try and work on your marriage and do all you know possible and still get slapped in the face. Even if that slap is emotional...sometime I believe a real slap would hurt less. I know I have not handled my situation well at all. You have done much better than I have. Your still several years younger than I am. All I can tell you is when you feel that there is no more hope just do what is best for you. Life is too short to be miserable all the time. I have been there and done that......and still am. I do believe things will change for me soon. I just dont know what that change will be.<p>Again...persue self happiness.....when you do make a decision, dont look back, dont question your actions.<p>I do not recommend starting an A. That isnt the answer.<p>Good luck.

Once again this morning I feel the strong desire to quit. This time it feels a little stronger than yesterday. I really hope that it fades like it did yesterday, and I hope that this is not a pattern and this feeling continues to grow every day.<p>My wife had a Mary Kay party at the house last night. I watched the boys took them to my mothers. My wife had wine and cheeses at the party, and when I got back, she was smashed. I clean up all of the mess and put the boys to bed. I know when she is smashed she is most honest with her feelings of affection. So I tried to push the envelope a little. Just as I thought!! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] She showed no response when I tried to be affectionate with her. She just pushed me away. I have got a long journey ahead of me, and I do not know what to try next. Maybe we were just not meant to be together. Maybe she will never love me again.<p>I am going to withdrawl in a little hole today, and focus on work. I am tired of trying and I am going to stay late at work here for a change. I am not sure I want to go home.<p>I wish someone actually had a success story out there. I see way too much misery in this forum and when things get good, its seems like people leave and do not post. Too bad. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Dreamland.
I don't know what to say to you to help you feel better - i felt like giving up last week and pushed all my H's buttons and we had a big blow up - but now things have smoothed out again, and I feel a lot more level-headed.<p>I think your W got smashed b/c she is so unhappy - not with YOU - but with herself - she probably wasn't capable of showing you the love and affection she might really feel for you when she was in such a bad state. Even though she is still in contact (minimal) with OM, she is going through withdrawal and the prosepct of going back to work under OM is probably v frightening to her - you say she doesn't want to give up her job - maybe some part of her is saying "How come I have to give up a job I love because of this A**H***? He gets to keep his job, but I don't" - she doesn't want to stay at home and get depressed taking care of the kids - she needs to get out of the house to feel good about herself, but she doesn't have the energy or feel good enough about herself to go out selling herself, looking for another job - she also may be afraid of what could happen to her in a new job with a new boss - it's a case of "Better the devil you know that the devil you don't".<p>I think you really love your wife - everything you say and all your actions demonstrate this. But you are tired - and your child waking 4-5 times a night is not helping your mental state at all - believe me, I know - I have 2 boys, too. Remember that you have made it a safe place for her to talk about the OM to you, and she brought up the subject b/c she needs help staying on course - although the OM's name is a terrible trigger for you, it doesn't sound like she is talking about him in any other context than trying to figure out how to keep him away from her - in other words, she knows she's weak in this area, and you have shown her that she can trust you to support her even in this, the hardest thing to deal with of all, so now she is trying to trust you and ask for your support. She is unhappy with herself for what she has done - she is going to do stuff like getting smashed once in awhile. <p>Just wait for her to wake up and give her a little hug - it's going to take a long time. Are you receiving any counselling yet? You need support, too.<p>Hope this helps you - I think she has a very good husband who cares for her v deeply.<p>Odile

Dreamland,<p>Do read and reread the link I LuvNprotect ME provided. It gives the Plan A/B guidelines and points out the benefits and risks of both.<p>The purpose of Plan A is to negotiate with the WS to initiate no contact and to start working on the marriage. Until both of these are in place, you are not in recovery. This is clearly stated in the linked article.<p>There is also the question of a how long to Plan A and how good is your Plan A. Each of us has our own limits on how long we can Plan A. You may have reached your limit, that is OK. It certainly sounds like it right now. I suggest that you take some time to really access if you are ready for Plan B. And yes, this means that you keep Plan A’ing for a little bit longer… one day at a time. But you can Plan A in a way that does not hurt so much. This way when and if you move to Plan B you will be more centered then you are right now.<p>Have you tried the 180 approach from DivorceBusting that everyone keeps posting around here? There is a lot of wisdom to it. You may want to take a look at the DB book “The Divorce Remedy”. It has some wonderful ideas that may be of use to you and they fit very well into the MB structure. <p>It does seem that your WW’s A is winding down and the OM is LB’ing all over the place. The main problem I see is the manner in which your wife is treating you and reacting to you. You will not be able to convince her to change this behavior by love busting or pleading. That will only make it worse. One of the major premises of the DB material is that if what you are doing is not working then do something different. I’m not suggesting that you stop Plan A’ing. What I am suggesting is that you incorporate the 180’s into your Plan A. If you change, it will force your wife to change. Relationships are like dances. If you stop waltzing and start doing the tango your partner has to follow.. she certainly cannot keep waltzing.
quote:
<p>Here is more on 180: I got this off http://www.divorcebusting.com
I hope this helps. DivorceBusting suggests doing a 180.
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!
2. No frequent phone calls
3. Do not point out good points in marriage
4. Do not follow him around the house
5. Do not encourage talk about the future
6. Do not ask for help from family members
7. Do not ask for reassurances
8. Do not buy gifts
9. Do not schedule dates together
10. Do not spy on spouse
11. Do not say "I Love You"
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get
busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse hiswhereabouts, ASK NOTHING
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him someone he would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)
21. Never lose your cool
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic
23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes
their feelings stronger)
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really
saying to you
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel
34. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

odile,
Thanks for the encouragement. I think I am slowly coming out of this funk for the day. I have a feeling that this may become my morning routine. I hope not. I do not think it is very healthy.<p>I have not been to counceling. I do not have very much time for myself. Plan A and this forum is taking all my extra time. I try to get off at work now at a reasonable hour and I make it home by 5:30 to 6:00. I watch the kids while my wife makes dinner, we eat, I watch the kids while my wife takes a break (sometimes I wash the dishes and watch the kids), I put the kids to bed, and hopefully, I will have around 30 min. to and hour to talk to my WW alone, and then bed. This is my life on the weekdays. Not much time for anything else. The weekends, my wife and I hang out and I watch the kids alot while she takes mini breaks. I also like to pick a project around the house to complete. I let her pick the project.<p>Maybe I need to reconsider my Plan A to have some time for myself and spend the most time on her most important EN's, but will that be LB's because now she will have to watch the kids more. I think I am in a jam here. I do not know how effective it is for me to spend my time watching the kids for her breaks. Is this a good way to spend time Plan Aing? I have always watched the kids in the past. My Plan A now just provides an hour or two of devoted attention a day, I plan dates for each other occassionally, I provide a little affection for her, I compliment her all the time. I am not sure now. <p>I am hiding all of these feelings from my wife. I always act happy in front of her regardless of how miserable I feel. I am not sure if I should be doing this, and when do I start sharing with her my feelings again? During Recovery? When has recovery officially started?
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Zorweb,
I have put away all considerations for Plan B now because Plan A is working. I just am not sure I want to continue Plan A. I think I will just sit tight for a while and reconsider what I am doing. <p>In my circumstance, I am not sure what a 180 would be from what I am doing now? Any ideas?<p>I do tend to follow my wife around. I am trying to initiate conversation and get oportunities to fill her EN's. I did not know that maybe this is not a good thing? I do make dates with her, I do encourage her and talk about our future together and I continue to PLAN for our future together. I just refinanced our house and dropped $160 a month in interest alone. I sold my boat to free up more cash so I did not have to work as much. I buy her an occasional gift like flowers, and her birthday is coming up. I will probably buy her a diamond necklace. I am not sure why all of this needs to be reconsidered. Maybe I am missing something.

A couple of things.<p>Dreamland, Plan A isn't intended for you to be a doormat or to push you along to lose all your love for your wife. If you're on the verge of freaking out...then do something differently. That doesn't mean you have to leave Plan A or go into Plan B...just back away a little bit and do something for yourself! Take yourself out and leave her with the kids or even just let her know you're stressed out. I don't think you have to put on a happy face all day long in order to do a good Plan A...just don't LB. You're keeping too much of your true feelings in instead of finding healthier ways of letting them out...if even just a little bit.<p>I was a WS and I can assure you that none of her current state or thoughts have to do with you. I know that doesn't make you feel better...but it's part of the process. She's still sorting out how she could do something so STUPID with someone who cared so very little for her. Until she can finally sort it all out and turn her focus away from it all...she'll continue to be absent from your life mentally. Going back to work, if she can get into a different department, could be a good thing. Gives her something new to focus on and a new start. When I finally pulled out of the fantasy and got some space to sort everything out...I realized how much I really did care for my H. It's possible that may require Plan B one day for you...but I agree with the others...your situation isn't ready for that yet. I think you've got a really good chance at recovery...it just won't be as soon as I know you'd like. I just hope it's soon enough!<p>The other thought I had was for readytogo.<p>You do NOT have an idea of how dreamland feels. You're an adulterer, not a betrayed spouse. You can't even begin to compare!! I'm a former wayward spouse myself, and believe me, I once believed myself the jilted one also. I believed I gave forth all the effort in the marriage and that any attempts at trying to have my needs met always failed...at that it must have been my H's fault. GUESS WHAT!!! I learned a great deal about marriage, unrealistic expectations and what needs I needed to meet for myself...as well as NEW WAYS to get the message across of what things help me feel loved and cherished. I KNOW how YOU feel...but YOU DO NOT know how dreamland feels. There isn't any comparison. Get off your pity pot. Either divorce or put some real effort in your marriage. Grow up.

dreamland,
Plan A can drain you. You are trying to put your W's needs ahead of yours. THat's why it's designed to hae a time-limit.<p>BUT, if you are worn-out, bitter, and hopeless, you cant do an effective Plan A. <p>You've gotten some great advice here. Just wanted to say... take care of YOU. You can take care of YOU without LB'ing. Take a break from us sometimes if you need to. Or explore through the Notable Posts thread, and read some success stories. What things do you do for YOU? Exercising? Taking the kids out for fun stuff? Reading? Bubble baths? Manicures? WAIT [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] that's the advice for WOMEN BS's... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] NEVERMIND!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>This is the hardest thing you're likely to ever go through. But it can be a healthy experience as well. <p>Give yourself Protection, Care, Honesty, and Time. <p>Somewhere in Plan A, you have to decide to "wait things out", and take care of you. DEMONSTRATE the real Dreamland with No LB's, and meet her needs, but don't lose yourself....<p>"The race is not given to the swift or the strong, but those who endure to the end." It's not about being the best, strongest, or greatest... you're in this marriage for the long haul, right? Find a way to make yourself endure.....

you got a reply from one of the greatest sucess stories on these boards Lor(lor). read her story, it is great. If I recall correctly her WH still works with the XOW or is where they run into each other.<p>Working together after A does happen, sometimes good, sometimes bad.<p>Only you know how long you can do Plan A, but a general rule is around 6 months. You can still Plan a & withdraw a little from your W. but recovery does not happen until the A is over & withdrawal happens.<p>there are lots of success stories on this board. Some recovered their marriages, others are just the personal sucess stories of people who have dealt with this mess & surived gracefully. I rather had been one whose marriage was saved but knowing where I was last yr or the yr before or the yr before that I am glad to know I can look back without too many regrets and I know I did almost all I could to save my marriage.

dreamland you have received some great advice here already. I have a few things to add.<p>First Plan A is about YOU. It's about becoming a better you. At first I thought it meant being who my H wanted me to be (who I thought he wanted me to be any way). I too was ready to toss it in. It was very wearing. Once I learned the correct Plan A it became less of an annoyance and more of a lifestyle change.<p>Second zorweb suggests the 180 approach. She also suggested this to me. It works, trust me it works. You can read how it worked for me HERE.<p>I'm now less than 2 weeks short of one year since D-day and although I'm afraid to say it (fingers crossed, knock on wood, and all those Italian things to ward off the evil eye lol) we are in recovery and things are going very well.<p>Don't give up just yet. Try the 180 in combination with Plan A. You'll be glad you did!

Dreamland-<p>Your in good hands here, you are among the most beautiful in the world and there is a wealth of support, advice and information being given to you.<p>Just a few things. First, expect nothing and you wont be disappointed. Oh, the times I can remember when WW got a little tipsy and I thought things would get a little romantic, and then when it didn't happen, the disappointment I felt! You expected something to happen and when it didn't, it made you feel worse than before. So, don't expect anything (especially affection) from WW right now, don't expect her to meet any of your needs, because chances are, they are not going to be met for a while anyway.<p>Next, get "Divorce Remedy" like Zorweb suggests (listen to everything Zorweb suggests!) and if you don't read anything else in it, read about 'cheeseless tunnels' That's what you are doing right now, running down cheeseless tunnels and expecting something to be there when you get to the end of the tunnel. Read this chapter, it will really make a lot of sense and put things in perspective for you.<p>Also, keep a journal of your everyday experiences, how you feel, what you did, etc. Using a journal will allow you to keep track of your progress and show you how far you have come. It will also allow you to keep track of what actions work and which ones don't. In the short term, it doesn't do much, but a week, a month from now, you can look back and really see how far you have come.<p>Plan A is not a short-term thing to try and get WW back, it is a lifelong commitment and needs to be incorporated into everything you do, not just for WW, but for your kids, the people you work with, your friends, etc. Your last post sounded so much better, positive and full of strength. In it, you have addressed a lot of things in your life that you are not happy with and you want to change (notice how many are not even directly related to WW or the A?). What are you gonna do about it, what changes are you going to make- That's Plan A at its most basic level.<p>So here is a gentle kick-in-the-backside. Roll up those sleeves and get busy!

Dreamland - <p>I hope you were not reffering to me as someone who dropped off the forum. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Things have taken a turn back to the negative direction on my end, and I just needed a break from the forum to get my head together.<p>I also feel frustrated and have some of the same thoughts as you. For the last few days I have been thinking that all this effort is killing me and a divorce wouldn't be that bad. Just the weight of everything made me withdraw to myself so I could get some more energy.<p>To make a long story short, my WW returned from her trip with a negative attitiude. Then at work she had a confrontation with the woman who used to be involved with the OM. I had to listen to her tell me about this and how she told her co-worker that she would always be friends with OM. I was sick to my stomach just hearing this. In the end I was exiled out of the bedroom again (which she calls "HER ROOM").<p>But, I will continue my plan A. Like you it has had some positive effects and it is the only path to saving my marriage. I'm not sure about all of the divorce busting "180" stuff. I just try to identify what is working and do more of it, instead of withholding the affection. <p>I also spend a lot of time watching my daughter. I would like to have more time for myself, but I recognize that it will come later no matter which way things turn out. It does make things easier for my WW so I will continue to do this.<p>Yes this is tough stuff. All of us here following the program have good days and bad days. Sometimes the bad days go on for a while. If nothing else, you need to know you are not alone. No matter how my story turns out I will be here along with lots of other good people to support you. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

onwardandup,<p>It is good to here from you again. No, I was not directly talking about you dropping out of the forum. I was just making known one of my recent revalations that I here more negative stories than positive. No offense. I have been doing my fair share of offending today. You should read the "OW meets more needs than wife....Wounded2673" post. I realy stuck my foot in my mouth on that thread just by speaking my mind. I tend to be a bit on the edge in my opinions sometimes, but I am confident in my opinions.<p>Why did your wife kick you out of the room again? Was it something you said or did while she was telling you of her woes about her confrontation at work? Why is it that your WW is coming back from these trips with a negative attitude? (I am beginning to sound like my two year old, why, why, why.)<p>I hate it when my WW talks about the OM. I used to not mind much, because I wanted to here what was going on. Now, I do not care to here about OM because I am so over talking and rehashing the same da-- thing. I then have to re-say what I said in the past. I am not sure if she is forgetting what I said or she just likes to spin the knife in my back a little. I still just pretend and put on my happy face. She talks about the OM as though they will be together forever. Man does that hurt.<p>I am sorry to hear things took a turn downward for you. Rest assured that the A will end and she will see through the fog. I guess we just sit tight until that happens. Keeping planning your future with her. It will make her feel more at ease and safe talking about things with you. Try going out on another date. That seemed to do a good job.<p>Have a great day.

"I have been doing my fair share of offending today. You should read the "OW meets more needs than wife....Wounded2673" post. I realy stuck my foot in my mouth on that thread just by speaking my mind. I tend to be a bit on the edge in my opinions sometimes, but I am confident in my opinions."<p>Dreamland I think you misunderstand me. I wasn't mortally offended by you. I just felt that in your one comment 5 pages of very valid and true advise was whisked away as being "judgemental". That may not be what you intended...but when a WS is looking for validation and sympathy, a comment like that can quickly dismiss any others.<p>I guess I missed the post or posts that you referred to...or perhaps I read them differently. I can understand your feeling empathy for rtg...I was in his shoes at one time and I was in a great deal of pain and turmoil too. If people didn't think he, as a PERSON, wasn't worth their time...they wouldn't POST. If people didn't CARE...they wouldn't POST. I CARE a great deal about the pain I caused MYSELF and my HUSBAND...so YES, I still feel PLENTY of guilt and remourse. And when I post I'm not only taking TIME out of my day, but I also put a great deal of effort in getting across my feelings. This is important to me...and it is somewhat offensive to see many posters time and efforts, posts full of feeling and experience, minimized because their being "judgemental" or "angry" or "bitter". Those are valid and profound consequences of an affair.<p>Anyway...I think this is a good indication that it's time for me to step away from the board a while again. It gets very frustrating to want to help people so badly to try to make up for your past mistakes, only to wind up pissing people off. Never my intention.... <p>I do think things will get better for you. No matter how your situation seems to you right now...for those of us on the sidelines it sounds very promising for the future. I guarantee I treated my H much more disrespectfully than your wife is treating you right now. She probably cares more than either you or she even knows. Take care.