Where does all of your WISDOM come from?<p>I just want you to know that I SEARCH OUT your posts! You are so helpful. Thank you for your contributions to the board and our lives....<p>By the way, where/what is your story? I guess I missed it somehow.<p>Thanks and keep up the good work. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ June 04, 2002: Message edited by: Susan ]</p>

Now this is embarrassing [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thank you for the compliment!<p>I guess my wisdom comes from being so dern old! (Just ask 2-long ... he says I'm so old I'm almost dead! LOL! )<p>My Dear Mr. Pepper had an 18-month A. D-day was December 26th 1995 ... so I guess you could say I have the advantage of the long distance view of recovery.<p>You are so very kind. Again, thank you for the compliment.<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

PS .... You're reading "Gift From The Sea" now. How do you like it?<p>P [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Pepper, Wanted you to know that I feel the same way about your contributions to my life by your posts. <p>Amazing...

Me too... and you're also an EXCELLENT writer!

I agree! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

So, wisdom comes with age....hummm...let's see...I'm 46 and you are twice as wise as me...so that must make you about.....yeah, you are almost dead, aren't you! (How old are you really???)<p>I finished A Gift from the Sea. I recommend any woman go out and buy it in the absolute best binding they can find and afford. It is an absolute treasure! Thank you for recommending it. Any more recommendations?<p>I did want to say that I read with interest the post and your reply on Emotional Needs to Clearview. I was reading and thinking... wow... that is a long list of fears. But, you were so helpful in examining each of those fears. Part of the reason for this "hats off to Pepper" post from me.<p>Now, did you find out years later about Mr. Pepper's affair? Or have you been in recovery for all of this time? Is there somewhere (a link) that you have posted "your story"?<p>Have a great DAY! IT'S HATS OFF TO PEPPER DAY!<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Susan ]<p>[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Susan ]<p>[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Susan ]</p>

my dear friend pepper-she is right-you are a godsend. thank you for all the encouragement and whacks in the head ive needed. you are a true angel.

Dear Susan,<p>Recovery began January 1996. I discovered evidence, confronted, and soon thereafter, confirmed the A. Mr. Pepper was possibly leaving evidence for me to find in an unconscious effort to be caught. He told me he wanted to stop, but felt trapped. He immediately stopped the A, and we went together to a public place so Mr. Pepper could confess and apologize to OW's husband, who Mr. Pepper had been friends with since childhood.<p>I doubt my story is in one single place on MB. By the time I got to MB, I was more into helping others than needing help.<p>I will be 103 years old in July (give-or-take 50 years). I have been fortunate to have a world-traveled education prior to marriage. Some of my traveling adventures contributed to my so-called wisdom. I work as a health care provider. I have been touched by so many lives in my work, and have learned so much from my patients ... I am impressed by the resilience of the human spirit. I have traveled a different path these last 13 years, as an adoptive parent to a bi-polar boy ... the trials and tribulations we experienced as a family have been a great lesson in humility. Mr. Pepper has been in AA since we started recovery, and I have learned much wisdom by osmosis through Mr. Pepper's own recovery journey.<p>I am lucky.<p>I am grateful.<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</p>

I understand. My father was bipolar. Depression for him was finally so debilitating he died as a result. I often think of a quote by Frederick Butcher. He said, “My father died of heart trouble. He had a heart that was deeply troubled”.<p>Do you still work? and where do you find the time to deal with work, your son, your marriage, and still post such valuable advice on MB?<p>Let's see...that must make you about 53!<p>Any other fabulous book recommendations?

How did you go about your recovery? Were you in counseling?<p>Is the AA for Mr. Pepper due to an alcohol addiction?<p>[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Susan ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Now this is embarrassing [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Thank you for the compliment!<p>I guess my wisdom comes from being so dern old! (Just ask 2-long ... he says I'm so old I'm almost dead! LOL! )<p>My Dear Mr. Pepper had an 18-month A. D-day was December 26th 1995 ... so I guess you could say I have the advantage of the long distance view of recovery.<p>You are so very kind. Again, thank you for the compliment.<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I second, third, and fourth the vote of confidence and the praise for your wisdom! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Only next time you should answer it's the experience, not the age!<p>And no, you are NOT old, 2Long knows not what he speaks! (The bum!) [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Dear Susan,<p>Yes, Mr. Pepper is a recovering alcoholic. His dad died from alcoholic cirrhosis, so there is a family history . <p>Our recovery included individual and marriage counseling ... and spiritual counseling by our deacon. But, later on, we also had oodles of "family group" counseling while helping our son ... and that counseling helped us both deal with our individual communication weaknesses. We took parenting classes, which helped us develop our sense of being on the same team at home. We began a daily ritual of praying together ... this was difficult for me at first, but I grew to enjoy it. Doing this every morning, holding hands, brings our hearts together (usually ... however, sometimes my mind wanders ... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>I work part time. My efforts posting on message boards is done during lunch at work, or intermittently at home. Sometimes I don't have much to contribute, and other times I can't shut myself up.<p>I will let you know when I feel inspired about a book that might be helpful. Most of the "affair" books I've studied have frequently been mentioned here at MB already. I get kind of tired of self-help and recovery books though ... and I like to mix things up as far as subject matter goes. <p>What about you Susan? Tell, tell.<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Well, my story is very long….too long to tell here. My story is spread out over half of my 26 year marriage. And, parts of it were so long ago that I truly can hardly remember. It was a FOG! I was both the BS (2X) and the WS (2X). And just to type that now makes me feel like trash. It is something that I look back on now and say “WHO WAS that girl”…for I married at 20, was a virgin, and the word adultery was not even in my vocabulary. And CERTAINLY not divorce. It never entered my mind that either of us was capable of committing such and act.<p>I married at 20, and my husband was 29. I felt at the time that my husband was so proud of me. I felt almost like a prize to him, being younger (and fairly attractive).<p>He had an affair first….and from there my life just fell apart. He had moved up and up the ladder in his management position and being the new boss it seemed everyone was real impressed, eager to please, and when it was offered, it was impossible to resist. I know now that there is never an excuse for having an affair, but he blamed me and how he did not feel appreciated. <p>My self-esteem hit rock bottom. I felt unappreciated. I had been a stay at home mom with our only son (who is now 21). In that weakness, I in turn had an affair. It turned out to be a looooong term affair. That is why I know that affairs are an addiction. I was miserable. I had NO peace. I thought I loved the person that I was in the affair with, but he was actually emotionally abusive and controlling. I tried again and again to end the affair. I would go a month or 6 weeks with no contact, but kept being drawn back in again. I kept wondering WHY I was involved in such a thing and why I was risking my marriage for a person that I knew I would NEVER want to spend my life with. I actually liked my husband better most times (and that was not much back then). The affair had such a hold on me. I still cannot explain it. I wanted out, but yet, I did not have the strength to get out, or felt that I could not endure the pain of the ended relationship. <p>During that time my husband had a second affair. This time he wanted a divorce, but after confessing and asking for a divorce, the next day he made the decision to stay in the marriage. All of this time we basically just kept sweeping our problems under the rug. We tried counseling at our church, but something with the counselor just didn’t click. He told us what the Bible said we should do, but we never got to the root of our problems. We basically lived two separate lives.<p>I ended the first affair, and basically I think got involved in another affair with a co-worker JUST to get past the withdrawal of the first affair. UGH! What a tangled web we weave!<p>I finally entered Individual Counseling to get my life straightened out. Forever I was numb…and every question that the counselor asked I answered “I don’t know” and I truly didn’t. I had lost my soul and my self. I ended the affair, and quit the job not knowing what I would do. Another job opened up the next week…answer to prayer! I never asked my husband to go to counseling….I didn’t want him to go just for me or to “shut me up”…I wanted him to realize his need and go of his own accord. Eventually he saw the change in me and decided to go on his own to another counselor.<p>Individual counseling lead to 2 years of joint counseling with a wonderful Christian counselor….which we graduated from in April, 2001. Our counselor told us with tears in her eyes on our final visit how we should hold our heads up highand be proud We had done some really HARD work, and so many people do not stick it out. Sometimes it is easier to just divorce and try again.<p>It was not easy. I have read everything I could get my hands on. I just got to the point that I can finally read “fluff” instead of self-help or marital books. We have made many changes. We have taken up new hobbies together. We have learned to communicate and to LISTEN.<p>Whew...are you sure you wanted me to tell? This is probably far more than you wanted to hear, and I have left out sooooo much. I never have posted much, although, I did post a fair amount when I was in the deepest throws of withdrawal and depression. I have been a constant lurker for longer than you are old! MB has been so helpful to me. And individuals like you with such insight are a true inspiration.<p>God Bless [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Susan ]</p>

^bump^ for Pepper...after typing all of this, I don't want you to miss it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks Susan<p>I admire people who can pull themselves up and out of the pits. You are such a person! Making any marriage work is tough ... and making a marriage work after affair(s) is positively heroic!<p>Pepper

Dear Pepperband<p>I am an oldtimer who has been here longer than I probably should have been...riddled with angst and ambivalent about leaving for a lot of reasons.<p>When I read your husband is an alcoholic and you adopted a bipolar son, I had to write to tell you that I am married to a man who is a raging alcoholic and who has been diagnosed with Bipolar I disorder. Sometimes I wonder if this is the reason why I've stayed at this dance so long.<p>Rereading my posts, I see I use the sledgehammer approach more often than not. I have read your posts, humbled and in awe of your pure understanding of human nature and compassionate advice.<p>There really isn't any point to my post other than to idneitfy in some way to the alcohol-bipolar thing we share.<p>I'm just really, really glad you're around.<p>Catnip =^^=