i have been afraid of doing this because it reminds me of before the affair. i basically went on with my life when he didnt seem interested. but i think im ready to try it.<p>what has brought this on is i found an e-mail that i believed husband lied about. he is so pissed that i think he is lying-said some nasty things, etc. he doesnt get that i didnt throw away my trust in him-it was taken from me. i will not have him pissed at me for this. i swear i want to hit him with a frying pan.<p>i am not having my needs met and he is basking in the new marriage he has. i however am stuck with the same old crap. im thinking maybe a 180 is the way to go. i have my fears, i dont think he will change or get it-so i think if i try to get the marriage i want-we will end up separating. i dont know what will happen. any ideas???

Hi Nikko!(thats my baby boys name, w/1-k)<p>I dont have many ideas on 180, but I am thinking of it as well. I would like to see how it goes for you and I'll let you know how it goes for me. At first I didnt want to but now I really do. And not just for him, for me. I feel I need to move on and live life. Not just as an act to get him to notice me, but to really start living. He is, why shouldnt I?<p>So if you do it, no matter the out come. I think you will feel better because you will be living your life and starting to let go. Do the 180 for real. Not as an act.<p>Good Luck!
PI

nikko---<p>How are you doing today?<p>Have you read this posted by Cali last week?<p>http://www.marriagesavers.org/how_to_live_your_life_in_the_fac.htm<p>I think #3, #4 and #6 may help you a little...<p>All this stuff can drive you crazy if you let it and I know how exasperating and painful it can be. Going thru all this you have to remember to take care of yourself. A 180 can help you turn someof the focus on nikko, while giving your H something to think about.<p>Just my $0.02, but it seems like you are really struggling here and maybe it's time to shake things up a little.<p>Good luck <p>E<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: Elad ]</p>

Nikko,
I haven't spoken with my WH for 3 days, and it's always been me who initiated the calls, so I'm going to just wait and see if and when he calls me. We have our first meeting with a new MC tonight, which I had told him about when we last spoke, so I am curious to see if he remembers. I will go by myself anyway if he doesn't.
I am sorry about what you're going through. I just don't understand these WH!
I think I know what you mean by 180, but can you tell me more, and I think you mentioned a book that might tell about it also, but I've forgotten.
Thanks!
KK

nikko,<p>I am still very new at this and have not tried all their is to try, but I am not a supporter of 180's. IMHO: I am sure it would get a temporary response, but it seems to be a strategy to manipulate someone's feelings for you. <p>Have you talked with him about your feelings again and how he is not meeting your needs? Have you given him a cookbook way of meeting your needs. Unfortunately, guys are very mechanical. They need to be told exactly what to do. How many hugs a day, how many kisses a day, hold my hand once a day, talk to me a minimum of 30 min. a day. Give him a checklist. He may just not know how to fill your needs now and what exactly you want. What are your needs and what is it you want him to do?<p>Another thing it could be is are you meeting his needs? Maybe he is not meeting your needs because you are not meeting his. What are his number one needs? Have you discussed this with him? Maybe you are working hard to meet his needs but you are spending too much time on needs that are not important to you. Do not confuse the time you spend trying to meet his needs with him having a happy "new" marriage. Maybe he does not share your same sentiment.<p>About the email, could it be innocent. He does have a right to be angry if he is innocent. Trust is not necessarily something that is built up over time. I think it has to be a decision to finally have faith in your spouse again. It is kind of like sitting in a chair a guess and lifting your feet. You are putting all your faith in the chair to support you. I know this is hard to do because the darn chair is three legged now, but you can balance it a little. The funny thing about trust is that it is independent of whether or not the person you are trying to trust is trustworthy.

Dr. Harley is very clear about trust issues, especially in a M harmed by infidelity--there is none and should not be any. He has even pointed out that trust has never been an expectation in his own M and that is why they have not had to deal with infidelity.<p>Nikko, I've just decided to face that things are the way they are. My M is not a safe place to be because of my H's state of denial. The way I have decided to deal with that in addition to accepting it is to just live--be aware of what my R is and live within it as long as I am able to so do with integrity. If my H got angry with me for not trusting him, I'd probably just laugh because I now see that as so completely silly. He shouldn't trust me either, and he should know that better than anyone because he sure had more needs met in this M than I ever did.<p>I'm no longer invested in any quick fixes. I just work on myself and my responses to him. He's also slipped back into some of the old patterns with disrespectful judgments and selfish demands. The solution to that is not me demanding that he stop it and meet my ENs. I see it instead as a challenge for me to learn how to respond in a way that validates me. How he responds to my self-validation is his problem, but I'm working very hard at holding up my end of this part of our interaction.<p>There was a typical incident the other day: I was helping him with some of his business records because he is recovering from surgery. He made a snide remark about my choice of pen. I did my old pattern of just using the pen he apparently wanted me to use and said nothing in response to his disrespectful judgment. I later analyzed it and realized that I could have responded by saying, "Are you trying to say that you'd like me to use this pen instead? If so, I'd be happy to".<p>IOW, instead of taking the bait and taking it personally, I could have responded to what he was really after. Of course, it would be of benefit to the M for him to learn to make a thoughtful request ("Please use this pen because that's the one I always use, and it makes it easier for me to read the entries."), but there is nothing I can do except ACT AS IF he meant to do it the right way.<p>Because I spent the time analyzing this and coming up with a plan, hopefully I'll be ready when it happens again. I just decided to take it one incident at a time instead of trying to attack the whole thing at once and just learn how to interact in the everyday course of events. I'm trying to anticipate things that might come up and figure out what my position is and how I will respond. We really don't have to bite off the whole thing at one time. I'm having to learn that.<p>As far as the needs go, I think Michele's (Weiner-Davis, author of The Divorce Remedy) suggestion to work on only 2 or 3 specific action items at one time is the way to go. I've even taken this down to 1 at a time to make it even easier. Start with what your most important EN is, then break that down into specific actions that your H could do to meet that EN. Start with the smallest and simplest, and use Dr. Harley's example of "How would you feel about.....?" If he doesn't respond to a thoughtful request, then go through Michele's other suggestions step by step until that one action is in place, and he is following through on it consistently.<p>I know the bottom line for me is that if my H cannot see all the issues from my perspective as I'm trying to see them from his, then the M simply will not survive, but I'm willing to let it die a natural death while I work on myself and my relationship skills. As long as I'm honest with him about what is going on as it is going on, then I'm doing what I should be doing.<p>You've already laid it out for your H, as have I, and I think all that's left is to maintain that position whenever he bumps into it. That's when you'll have his attention and might actually be able to be heard. I think when we try to force them to look at something that's a big deal for us, but the farthest thing from their mind, it just isn't that productive.<p>Anyway, that's the best I've been able to come up with so far. I think the 180s that NEED to be done are the ones involving our own role in the old M patterns. When my H was "mean" or disrespectful to me, I would withdraw and avoid him (a natural instinctive reaction to pain). Since that's the part I can do something about, I need to learn to do something different when he hurts me that way.<p>I started by working on not withdrawing. I fought my instinct and continued being a loving pleasant companion. When I do that, he has little to complain about, so that helps solve a lot of it. When I get enough practice doing that and conquer that, I'll move on to confronting him when he does it. I'm still trying to figure out a non-LB way to do that, so I keep studying and reading.<p>I think the most important things to keep in mind are:<p>Doing something different and avoiding our own old patterns, even if you don't do the "right" thing, just being sure to absolutely NOT do what you used to do until you figure out what actually does work.<p>And the other is realizing that it is a process, a time-consuming project of trial and error. Makes me think of a scientific experiment where you try different things, ruling out things while you zero in on the answer. Even the ruling-out process teaches us a lot, and we can even learn things we weren't originally looking for, but that are helpful along the way.<p>I have also likened where I am now with where I was before and during my H's A, somewhat as you described as far as moving on because of his disinterest. It is very similar, but this time, when a conflict arises, I'm avoiding the state of Withdrawal and forcing myself to stay in the state of Conflict instead.<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

thanks conquerer-your post is right on. thank you. check out my post about changing the dance. im doing ok. i need to work on me-hopefully i can do this with his support-if not i will go it alone.(working on me)<p>hang in there-i think you are a wonderfully strong woman and have taught me and others so much. keep me posted on you-ok.