My WH still has his head up his butt. Not sure if I should take my FIL up on his offer (to come to Guam w/ the kids). Orchid and one of my close friends thinks its a good idea.<p>WH really needs to grow up. So much self pitty. Its getting to the point where hes making me sick. He is sick. Mentally. Thats how these WS act. And being that he is so young, I dont know if he is mature enough to realize what M and having your own family is all about. I think he wants to be young again. And because he is young I think he feels he has the right . Hey, I had a baby when I was 18. I didnt turn my back on her and say " I need to be young again". I grew up and took care of my responsibilities. Moved forward. But I guess WH and I are different. I think he was trying to be someone he wasnt quite ready for. Or hes trying to be someone hes really not w/OW? I really dont know. He has shown so many different faces I cant tell his head from his a**.<p>Anyways, I dont know what to do anymore. I know what I hope for but I cant make it work on my own. I Feel something has to change soon. I didnt have twins, just one baby. I wasnt prepared to take care of an extra baby that doesnt want to grow up. I know I can do soo much better than this. But the sad thing is , this was what I wanted. With MY family. I want OUR baby to grow up with both of his parents in the home. But the other baby has to grow up first.

Hi PI,<p>Well you know my opinion!!! Just bumping this up so you can get more thoughts!!<p>take care,
L.

Hey PI, an offer to go to Guam may not be a bad idea, it may give him the space he needs to "find himself" and you know that your IL's will look after you and the kids. Maybe if he has a chance to have that space, he can get reality back again!
So what happened, you said there was some bad stuff happening, and i haven't heard from you?
Do write soon, miss chatting with you!
God Bless,
M

PI,<p>I was just thinking......if your H ever does 'find' himself, can he mark the 'spot'? So that if he should ever lose it again, everyone else will see the BIG X! <p>More babble in the A. Sorry you are being hurt over this. You know there were stories about those that wore the 'scarlett letter' and chastity belts. Maybe the new version should include the WS H's???? Ouch! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

I think I am moving much closer to Plan B. H is starting to make me sick. I dont even want to look at him. I dont even want to cry anymore.<p>And now knowing that OW sleeps around without protection!! I feel really sick to my stomach!! I have been bugging him to get tested. Its bothering him, I can tell. But he wont argue on that one cuz he knows better.<p>Tonight really made me like him even more. Didnt get home til 10:00pm (car ran out of gas again). Even if it did , he didnt even call home. He was supposed to get home on time to watch the kids while I went to work. Nice, huh? Even if some of his stories may be true, to me they are now like the story "the boy that cried wolf". So he needs to save it for someone who will listen.<p>Do I sound ready for B? Let me know. Yes A is still hot N heavy. Yes, Im much stronger. And these days I just dont feel like being to nice. Why should I?<p>PI

Oh PI,<p>I am sorry you had to put up with more babble. <p>Why can't he get it straight? <p>The ran out of gas excuse is what you use on the OP. re: I was told (by someone close to me) that, that excuse is the oldest trick/excuse in the book! - LOL!!<p>U on the other hand deserve a much better made up excuse. This WS of yours is getting his lines mixed up. <p>I know you are in pain but wanted to bring you some levity so counter act it. Kinda like aspirin. Ya know?!?!??! <p>take care,
L.

ORCHID,<p>Im ok. I didnt let him see that he upset me. I actually laughed at one point. Because I can see it all now. I can sit back and see how frustrated he is because of his guilt. He keeps messing up and Im not doing anything wrong. And that kills him.<p>After he got home he said, "you can go to the gym now". I said "no, thats ok". He asked why and I told him "because I want to be with the kids".
And he said"oh, and I dont"! I never said that. he goes on with his blah, blah, blah. It just goes in one ear and out the other(most of the time).<p>I still dont like him. What should I do ?<p>PI

I feel your pain in this one PI.<p>My H is 27, and before we originally seperated he was talking about how he didn't know if he wanted to settle down and start having a family, or if he wanted to go out and experience the "childhood" he never had. The EA started right after he left with a close friend of mine, who I now know talked him into moving out in the first place. We have been M a little over 6 years now, got M when I was 19 and he was 21.<p>Now the OW is out of the picture, and he is wanting a D so that he doesn't have any responsabilities or ties to no one. He will not come aroud me for very long, in my opinion because he knows he'll fall in love with me again and it will put a stop to his fun. His parents are encouraging this behavior, stating that we got married too young and that he deserves to have his childhood now. He is living with them now and and they are encouraging him to stay with them. IMHO, they are adding fuel to his fire, which really gets to me. They don't have a problem with him spending his weekends at clubs and spending the nights with friends, basically leaving on a Friday night and not coming home until Sunday afternoon. He's gotten to where he only wears club clothes all the time, has his hair all frosted up, and looks like a teenager, but he's 27!<p>He says he wants to date me some after the D, and that we need to totally tear this apart in order to rebuild it, which totally confuses the heck out of me. <p>In essenece we are in Plan B, but I can't decide how to work it. He comes around usually at 1 1/2 week intervals, says he's so sorry, says he misses things about me (never me, just different things about me), then he leaves and I don't hear from him for another week or so. I'm playing his game back now. I'm not going to answer the phone when he calls anymore, and I'm going to play hard ball some, not fill any more of those EN's (particulary sex) when he does come around. He admitted when I asked him if he was keeping me on a string so that if he didn't like it out there he could real me back in that he was doing this. <p>And for some strange reason, I still love him. I don't know why, and can't seem to find an answer as to why, I just do. We've been seperated for almost 6 months now, and a friend of mine was highlighting all of the bad stuff he's done to me last night and why I should let him go, but for some reason I can't. When I look at him I still see that he loves me, I see it in his eyes, he just doesn't know what he wants, and this is also making it impossible for me to heal. His mom told me I just need to give him time, and I feel that if he had done all of this when we first seperated instead of getting with the OW, he would be looking to settling back down again. I just don't know when to give up, I don't think I'm fully ready to do so yet, but on the same token I don't know how long I should wait.

Hey PI, I seem to have lost communication with you,, PLEASE..... EMAIL ME......
Mo

PI - I wanted to give you my daughter's opinions! I asked them about your post regarding whether you could live as a family, but not as husband and wife. She (now 14) said she would much rather have seen her parents split up then live together in a non-loving relationship. She agrees the divorce was hard for her, but said she was never fooled by the state of our relationship towards the end, and was grateful that we both moved on to loving relationships.<p>I know you are so concerned about providing a good home life for your child. You can do that, and still leaev a bad relationship.

Hi, I just wanted to let you know I read your post about still loving him and it not making sense to you. The reason is, you married him for better or worse til death do you part. I am right in the middle of my husbands online affair. We still live together and I am really bad at meeting his emotional needs. Everything he is doing is a contradiction. I want to believe that the love that brought us together will bring us back together. If it doesn't it is his loss. You need to remember that. However best you cope and do what it takes to get through to the next day is what you need to do. Look out for yourself and never berate yourself for being hopeful.
God bless,
Good thoughts to you!
Layli

Hi PI -- I've been trying to follow everything that is going on with you. I am so very sorry that your WH is still deep in the fog and flaunting in your face.<p>I think you need to do what is best for you and your children right now. I agree with Orchid that maybe going to Guam and having your in-laws is not a bad idea. We know a lot about your A and how your WH is treating you, but what I don't know is whether you've got a good support system in place where you are -- other family? close friends? If you are feeling alone in this and this keeps up, maybe spending time away with the in-laws is a good plan for you. <p>My only other question for you is that in earlier posts you mentioned that part of you getting stronger was your getting back into being a personal trainer/working. Would that be something you could do in Guam too? I didn't see how long you were considering spending there.<p>The only thing I am thinking here is that all of your posts since the beginning over in plana/b and here have indicated that your WH and the OW are putting your children in a bad situation and that it REALLY bothers you and hurts you. It is clear you are stronger, but maybe being apart will help. <p>My thoughts are with you. My WH is away on his "soul searching" "get his head together trip" (can't help think that this may be another scam to go away with the OW, but I'm trying to stay positive).

PI,<p>To address your question about what you should do?<p>Hm..... step back refocus and breathe. 1st. <p>Then tell us what you see. U like this guy as is? I think not. If so, then see where you want to be and keep that as your focus. REmember you do not have control of completely restoring your M. That is a shared responsbility. So if you are not getting cooperation right now. <p>Don't try to restore the part he is NOT participating in. Work on the parts he must participate in. ex: financial, health, legal. <p>Right now stay away from emotional words. Love, hate, are strong words that often bring anger. Identify and stay away from trigger points. <p>Post and vent here. Watch your tongue!!!! <p>Call me when you need. U have my # and can call anytime. <p>Here is that post about the 5 stages of grieving. I can't remember which one of your threads you were asking about it:<p>5 stages of grieving<p> http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html <p>take care,<p>[ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

Thanks for your replys everyone!<p>Comming to this site really helps me and Ive made some good friends thru here. Thank God for MB.<p>I feel I am stuck. Do not know which way to turn. Or do I just leave this in Gods hands and pray for a sign? Do I stay? Do I go? In the begining, that little voice inside my head was saying"stay". Now that little voice is saying"Go". That little voice is what lead me to the discovery of the A and has been right on the nose ever since. This is just such a tough decision to make because of the kids. And also, I need WH's consent to take the baby to Guam. Which I know he will not do at all. He has already told me. How do I handle that one?<p>As far as my job, I can be a trainer anywhere. Plus they know me at the Big gym out there. I was thinking about that. Not knowing how long I would be there, I should get a job. And I can get temp child/spousel supp. But again, this is all if my H agrees. Or I may be able to go down south. Thats in the state but far enough. My very close friend offerd a place there as well. Yes Unsure, I have great support here. Mostly friends and my 2 sisters. Its the place to stay thats the problem. But in a way I think it is better that the only places I have to stay are far away. WH can really feel what its like not having us around. I dont think he cares if I leave. He says, just leave the baby. He wants OW and our baby. Thanks Unsure for your concern.<p>I am stronger. I feel it. It feels good. But it also makes me feel like, "what am I doing here"? Then I look at my babys face and I just dont want to give up on us. I want WH to be the one if its going to happen.<p>By the way--- he came home at 10pm again. Knowing I had an appt @6 and needed him to watch the kids. But this time I was smart enough not to count on him and I brought the kids with me. We get home around 9 and H calls. Im at the gym, you can come work out now and we can switch, he says. I went off!(had too)I said, "what , you couldnt call to let me know you werent going to be here? You knew I had an appointment and I needed you to watch the kids. But thank God I knew better than to count on you, I brought them with me. And you knew your son had his shots today and hes sooooo upset, wont stop crying. I dont see you rushing home to comfort him". Then he says,"so that makes me a bad father"? I said, " You tell me"? Then i hung up on him. By the time he got home , he was being sooo nice. Im so sick of this!!!!! What do i do? <p>PI

When in doubt, drink water...... it will keep your mouth full and your tongue from lbing!!! LOL! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>What's this with him and 10pm? he got a curfew or something? <p>You have a lot on your mind PI and you have the time to sort it out so don't rush all now. Give yourself some breathing room. If his face angers you, then look elsewhere. You have a big enough home where you can stay out of each others way. Keep busy with other things. <p>Do not be rude or ignore him, just stay out of his way. You go about your business and let him figure it out. Don't tell him all your feelings. He does not appreciate nor can he handle it right now. <p>His on and off sweetness is probably making you sick. Ok, then don't stand there and wait for him to be nice to you. Just move about and keep busy. Easier said then done, I know. But you can do it. <p>K?<p>Remember breathe. When he asks questions like about him being a bad father....don't answer, just look and walk away. He may babble after you, bite your tongue (not too hard) and turn away. The less you say, the less he has to twist. <p>Hugz,
L.

Thanks again----We are ok today. Went to a pool party w/the fam. Watched the fight. Tyson lost! That sucked.<p>We got a long good. It started off kind of weird. I almost broke my toe this morning. We had to go to ER (couldnt move toe , was killing, and lookin ulgy!). I didnt want to go. I thought I would have to get a huge cast for one little toe. Turns out toe is just badly spraned and need to watch it. Anyways, thats how or day started and ended after the party.<p>Im sure OW and WH are fighting. He was in a bad mood (out of no where) before we went to the party. I bet she was going out and he didnt like it. Ive told him that I found out that she sleeps around. And that he needs to get checked. He better. I hear she gets around and is a party girl. What a Winner!<p>Im getting sick of him. I wont make any decisions until Im 100% sure of what I want. Reguardless, I need to move on. So what kind of Plan A do I do?<p>PI

Hey PI,<p>Howz the toe? Sorry you got hurt. Hope you are doing better. Glad to hear you all had a nice time yesterday. Better to watch the fight on TV than be in the middle of one!!! LOL! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You asked about plan A. Here read this thread, it is an old one from over 1 year ago. Valuable info here. Pay attention to clouds post. She takes the Plan A info and shows how and why she has incorporated into her life. Watch how her post shows that even though her M may not be where she would like it to be, notice how her realtionship with her WS is doing. Pay attention to that real close. It is important. Right now, for some of us we want the M to work but in reality the WS needs to be worked on. How he gets that help may be when certain circumstances are created (plan A vs plan B). The important thing is to understand the purpose of both plans and then set a course and goal for yourself so you will be able to put into action. <p>Take care,
L.

OK Orchid--where is Clouds thread? Can you send the link?<p>Hurry, Im hating WH more and more by the minute. Just LBed him a couple of hours ago.<p>PI

Hey Orchid,<p>Wheres the thread?<p>I wrote WH an email(sometimes its better that way) about picking up the baby from daycare at my work. I told him that he needs to pick up the baby ASAP because even though he is with me at work, he is still in the daycare and he cries the entire time. So if WH goes to the bart station close to my job he can pick up the baby much more earlier (makes sense, right?). But WH says "''no way", hed rather go to N. Conc station(which is right next to OW house + thats where they meet). He says its because he doesnt want to go thru the traffic to get to the other station, even though there is traffic going to both stations.<p>So I basicly broke it down for him. You pick him up ASAP comming from the closer station, or I cant work. If he comes from N.Conc station he wouldnt be able to get the baby til I get off anyway, so whats the point. I am not about to let my baby cry for 4 hours. My whole point is , the baby cant stay in the daycarre too long and WE as his parents should do what ever we feel will help this situation until he is more comfortable in the daycare. But lately WH feels like strolling in around 10pm w/his stupid excuses. Give me a break, he gets off at 5:30. Whatever. Im getting so tired of him. Im getting to the point where Im realizing that he is not being a good father. I hate saying that because I know he loves the kids very much. But he takes so much from the kids in order to be with OW. He doesnt even see it. He thinks hes the greatest father. My D feels it big time. Shes starting to like it when its just the kids and me. No Daddy. Last night at the pool party, when WH was holding the baby , he started crying for me. He wanted his Momma. He did that all night. He only wanted me.<p>
Just needed to vent. Better here ,right?
Sorry about my writing, im soooooooooo tired. need to go to bed.<p>PI

One more thing,<p>WH always finds a reason to NOT go to the gym with me anymore. This REALY bugs me. We used to be training partners. Today I told him "forget it". Im not asking anymore. Its soooo obvious he doesnt want to go with me anymore.<p>How do I handle this?<p>PI