Thank You so much InTheClouds. <p>This is supposed to be the last weekend before she moves from the apartment where we lived together, so she will be remembering a lot about us. Also, she needs the camera to copy the tapes from our recent trip to Europe to VHS, so I actually do not want her to give me the camera back until she does that >:-) <p>I wonder what I should do if she says she wants to give me back the camera anyway... I would't know if she wants to do it as closure or as an excuse to see me. Jeez, we are not even together anymore and I still worry and relate to her as the person who keeps me on the edge, walking on eggshells... amazing!

Hello Ignacio. I do not have a thread, excuse my ignorance but, what is a thread??!! [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] It is hard to tell him what I need from him because he says that what I did was in no shape or form his fault whatsoever. According to him we had the perfect relationship. And for the most part we did, I just had alot of insecurities!
Anyway, I will see if he'd like to visit the site or e-mail you! Thank you again! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Ignacio:<p>I think ITC has given you good advice here. Remember, you were never M'd, so there isn't such a strong committment to one another as if you had been. I wish this wasn't the case in our society - a commitment should be what you make of it -whether there's a piece of paper associated with that or not. <p>I wouldn't consider this a plan B. You never really did a plan A. You certainly CAN do a plan A of sorts, which is focused on bettering yourself. Plan A will make you a better companion to your GF or someone else. Plan A is usually applied when a spouse is having an A but lives with the BS. But not always. Bottom line is that you try to show your improvements to the SO while in plan A, and you can do that best when you have contact with them.<p>But this situation is different because you weren't M'd. I would keep in limited contact with her, at HER pace (because you don't want to be clingy or worse - stalking her, paritcularly if she's committed to her boss). Send things like cards for holidays and birthdays and the like, and let her decide what she wants to do. <p>Personally, I'd take every chance to have her come over (to drop things off/pick things up, for example) as she wants. You don' t know if they're excuses to see you, but they sound like they are. Do this PROVIDED you can keep your chin up and not appear clingy/needy. Get work, even something not to your liking, but temporary will make you look stronger to her. <p>Take care

I apologize. A 'thread' is a pretty technical term. It is used here to refer to a particular conversation, for example, we are now in a thread called "After the affair, we could never rebuild trust and security, so she left. What now?". So the question was if you had posted more of your story. If you have not, feel free to stay here and write about your story in this thread, tell us about your story, your whole story, and why you think you are so insecure. Also email me if you want.

Thank You 2long. <p>> Do this PROVIDED you can keep your chin up and not appear
> clingy/needy. Get work, even something not to your liking,
> but temporary will make you look stronger to her. <p>The reasons I prefer her not to come this weekend is (1) we will still have to meet later for the exchange anyway, and (2) I want to see her when I have some more job prospects or whatever else helps me have a higher chin, for real, and (3) time will (I hope) weaken the initial thrill of the thing with her boss.

FORGIVEME wrote<p>> I need from him because he says that what I did was in no shape
> or form his fault whatsoever. According to him we had the perfect
> relationship. And for the most part we did, I just had alot of
> insecurities!

Perhaps you can explain to him that the fact that something he does triggers insecurity for you does not mean it is his fault.<p>About having him come here: first I think you need to ask yourself if you are willing to tell him all the truth, as well as if you are willing to talk about it here. If you are not willing to tell him all the truth then don't have him come, because if you do you will perhaps not want to write freely here, right? And I think the fact that this place is anonymous and we can all speak freely is really a very good thing. On the other hand, if you tell us and him all the truth (policy of radical honesty, read that stuff from this site), bringing him here and letting him read your posts can be a good way of showing him how willing you are.<p>Now about the insecurity thing, were you also insecure in previous relationships and did you also cheat then? I can tell you I was, and I also cheated before, but much less. You see, when I met my current SO, I liked her so much more than I had ever liked anybody else that I was scared **** of losing her! I know it sounds so stupid, and it is not the whole story, because of course this somebody else gave me something I needed and was not getting from my SO, but fear of commitment and loss was an important part of why I cheated. It is so ironic because by cheating I nearly destroyed our relationship, and made *her* afraid of commiting to *me*.<p>But if you have made it this far together, you can work through it. Believe it or not I actually envy you, because I think for you there is still much more hope than there is for me. Also, it seems that it was a one night stand sort of thing, whereas I cheated on my GF for months, with somebody from my office that I could see every day of the week.

Ignacio, and everyone else, here's my story.
First I should tell you I am a 28 year old female, never married, no children but hope to someday. Anyway, in the summer of 1998 while at home from collage for an internship, I started dating this guy I worked with, a month later, I left to go back to school, 2,000 miles away from home, this was to be my last year at school and I knew it was going to be tough not only because my classes were tough and that I was 2,000 miles away from my new boyfriend but also because all my friends had graduated the year before and I didn't really have anyone I was close to there anymore. Well, I had these high hopes and visions of this new found relationship and where I wanted it to go, I really liked M but looking back, I didn't really know all that well yet. Basically, I jumped in head first to this relationship, I really clung onto the thoughts that this was it, this one was going to work (I had two previous long-term relationships, both of which I thought this was the one). That year was difficult for me, I struggled to keep my head up in school, and my classes were REALLY stressful. I needed to fall back on a great relationship but every time I talked on the phone with M a lot but he always seemed so distant and almost every time I got off the phone with him, I cried, I needed to feel like he wanted/needed me. I kept thinking, he just didn't like talking on the phone with anyone. Anyway, in June of 1999 I finally graduated and I couldn't wait to move back home and finally be with him and have this great, perfect life together. The first day I was back, all I wanted to do was to be alone with him, to go out to eat, to cuddle, etc….. but it was like he didn't want that, his roommates had to do everything with us, he felt like he couldn't ignore his friends, I was really hurt but shrugged it off. Anyway, over the summer, it was very difficult, he was constantly blowing off our plans to do things and going out drinking with his friends, it was like they were way more important to him than I was, and we fought A LOT!!!!!!!! He was into partying a lot and going out with his friends and drinking so when I did see him, all we did was go out with the guys and drink, this was not good, I'd end up drinking too much and we’d get into fights and I'd end up crying and wondering 'what am I doing?' I felt very lonely, all my friends were 2,000 miles away and I felt I only had him and now I felt I had no one. Over the course of the next few months we were on again, off again, and I started building up this hatred toward him, in the end after we finally did break up in December 1999, I was very bitter toward him and I felt like a changed person because of that relationship. I didn't feel like the happy-go-lucky person that I felt I was before, I felt like a weak, vulnerable person. I didn't like the way I felt, I felt very lonely. Anyway, about a month later, I met R (my currant boyfriend) at the gym. I really liked him and we started seeing each other and we really eased nicely into our relationship. Looking back, one thing that really bothered me about him was that on our first date, he was constantly talking on his cell phone to his friends, I thought that was a little annoying but I didn't let it bother me. Another thing that bothered me was that he took me to a night club, and I felt really uncomfortable there(I had never been exposed to the night club scene before, it was really different for me) and his friend met us out there. It was hard to talk, and I just felt weird. Despite that, we started dating and things went really well for about six months. Although, all we did when we went out was go to the nightclubs, I didn't really like the whole 'scene'. I also didn't like it when my boyfriend went out without me to the clubs, I knew that girls hit on him and I didn't like the guys that he hung out with because I knew for a fact that they all were unfaithful to there girlfriends!! It made me angry when he went out without me. At the end of the summer, I decided that I was going to sign up for a duathalon and my boyfriend knew how important this was to me and I talked about how the night before I thought we should go out for a big pasta dinner together and then rent some movies and go to bed early. I talked about my plans many times to him and he always seemed to want to so that. Well, come that Friday before the race, he decided why should he have to stay home the night before; he wasn't the one in the race, why should he have to sacrifice his Saturday night???? This made me so angry and I was hurt and really upset because this race was so important to me and I wanted him to be there with me, including the night before so we could relax together! Well, he swore that he'd make it an early night and be home by midnight because we had to be out the door Sunday morning at 6am!! Well, I tossed and turned the whole night, expecting him to be there when he said he would be and he ended up staying out until 5:30am. I was soooooo mad!!! I was so mad and I was questioning where he was and what he was doing and he turned it around and got mad at me for not letting him sleep for a half hour before we had to go. Despite my anger I was in the race and did really well, it was one of the most challenging things I've ever done in my life and I felt so good when I was done. However, when I look back on that day, I feel bitter, I still hold that anger, resentment and hurt from my boyfriend and I am still mad at him to this day for ruining 'my day'!!! Some how we got past this hurdle though at the time I was ready to throw in the towel. Over the next year, things were pretty good for the most part although I was constantly wondering where the relationship was going, I was scared to ask because he always seemed to change the subject. In august 2001, we both were both going through a really hard time with our jobs and other stresses and I was really starting to feel depressed, I told him that I was feeling this way and he got mad at me and basically said that I had no right to feel this way and that I should be happy because I have lot more than most people have and that he was going through a lot more stress than I was so I should just 'suck it up'. I was shocked that he treated me this way!!! I was really hurt and just flabbergasted, really!! We fought constantly over the next month and then I thought that maybe we should take a nice vacation away together and I told him that I was going to plan a trip for us to Vegas for the weekend, he thought that would be fun!! SO, I spent a lot of time looking for tickets, etc. Then one night, after we got into a fight, he informed me that he was going away for the weekend to Vegas, with five of his friends!!! I was stunned; I couldn't believe that he did this when I was planning a vacation for us! It made me feel he didn't care about me and I just was so mad!! Not only that, but he was going with all his friends that are unfaithful to there girlfriends!!! Well, when he was gone, I went out with some of my girlfriends, this guy started talking to me, I didn't pay to much attention to him but he was really persistent and he seemed very interested in me. He asked if I was dating anyone and I said yes and he asked if I was engaged and I said no and he asked if I was happy or if I thought that he was 'the one' and yes I did think that he was the one but at that moment I was so angry and hurt by him that I said I wasn't sure. I gave him my phone number and we ended up meeting that Sunday for coffee. He was a nice guy but I never had any intentions of dating him, I'm not sure what I was doing or why but I just knew that I wanted to get back at my boyfriend. This guy that I went out with ended up kissing me, it kind of threw me for a loop and I didn't stop him but I regretted it, I didn't like him, I didn't know him and I had a boyfriend. I talked with him on the phone a few times and all I talked to him about were the bad things in my relationship and he said that I didn't deserve to be treated that way, etc. I went out to lunch with him once more before calling him again on the phone and telling him that I didn't think that I should go out with him anymore because after all, I did have a boyfriend. That night, my boyfriend confronted me about this whole thing, somehow he found out that I went out with this other guy while he was in Vegas, to this day I'm not really sure how he found out but he did. He made me call up this guy while he was there and tell him that I had a boyfriend (which he knew) and that I would never see him again, and then he talked to him. It was a little uncomfortable but eventually he got over it. For the next few months things were going fairly well with us until this past February. It was valentine's day and I was just feeling like I needed to know where things were going with our relationship since he NEVER brought it up, so I said…..what do you think about us getting married?? He blew up at me and said don't lay that s#@&* on me!! And he started going ballistic at me about how stressed out he was. I was deeply hurt and confused and just angry!! I thought that if he wanted to marry me someday or even if he wanted to be in this relationship he would've calmly explained to me that yes, that was what he wanted someday and that he loved me but now just wasn't a good time for him to talk about it. Or even, NO, I'm not ready for that with anyone, than at least I would've know!! His answer really devastated me but I let it go, I just didn't want to deal with his frustration at me anymore. I was deeply hurt, and I held that inside me. All of this is what I feel has led up to what happened next! I went on vacation in March with my sister, I was so ready to get away and go on a vacation and have fun and relax. Well, while I was gone I spent a lot of time trying to call my boyfriend and never got a hold of him. Meanwhile we met this group of people that he hung out with and had a lot of fun with. There was this guy in the group that I really clicked with and I really liked talking to. We were both dating other people and we talked about our relationships a lot of the time. We got really close. a few days before the end of the trip, I finally got a hold of my boyfriend on the phone and he asked me to call him back because he was busy. I felt a little annoyed since it was so hard to get a hold of him and expensive since I was out of the country! When I called back he felt distant to me and didn't even wish me happy birthday (it was the day before). He said that he was going out a lot with his friends and having fun. When I got off the phone I was sad and unhappy and hurt. But I decided I wasn't going to let it ruin my trip. The night before I went home I ended up cheating on my boyfriend with this guy that I met, I immediately knew that I shouldn't let it happen but I was also drinking(not that that is an excuse). I came back home to my boyfriend and we started fighting constantly. I was very unhappy!! I contacted the other guy through e-mail and we talked about a lot of things, and my unhappiness in the relationship! I was being very distant from my boyfriend. I decided I was going to go visit this other guy and just not tell my boyfriend so I bought a plane ticket. Unbeknownst to me, my boyfriend began suspecting things were going on and he ended up taking my work key from me in the middle of the night to get into my computer and he found the ticket info and saw that I was emailing some other guy. He confronted me and said he knew that I was going to Florida and asked me about it. We fought horribly but I lied to him telling him that I was meeting a bunch of people form my vacation there and he knew that I had been e-mailing someone else. In the heat of the moment and in the argument he asked me to marry him and I said yes. I just wanted everything that happened to go away, I knew I made a mistake and I didn't want him to know about the details so I wasn't going to tell him, I didn't want to lose him!! I thought that now everything will be fine, we will go on with our life together and we will be happy!!! Well, he told me to close that e-mail account so I did. But then I ended up opening another account and I emailed this other guy back, I wanted to explain to him that I was sorry I could not see him and that I was going to work things out with my boyfriend. A few weeks went by and things were going great for my boyfriend and I, we were happy about the decision that we made to get engaged and we started planning our future together. He the went away on a business trip and when he got back I could tell that something was wrong. He then confronted me about everything, he said that he knew about everything that I did on vacation and that he read all my e-mails because his friend was a computer whiz and somehow got into my e-mail and got all my letters to and from him. He made me admit to sleeping with this other guy and I finally did but I didn’t want to because I was scared to lose him. Well, you can imagine the turn we took. So here we are now, things have been INCREDIBLY hard, for both of us, I have been going in and out of depression, I feel tremendous guilt, I feel like he will leave me any minute. I feel more insecure than ever before, and a lot of things. I know how hurt and devastated he is, and how mad and betrayed he feels. It is not easy. He says that he wants to stay with me but he feels like I'm not the person that he thought I was. He says that I am heartless and that it isn't his fault and that I would've done this to any guy that I was with. He says that in order for us to go on , he needs for me to tell him why this happened. There is no definite answer though!! I tried telling him everything in our relationship that I was hurt by and he just says those aren't good enough reasons and that I should've got over those things long ago!! Anyway, I'm feeling upset right now again!! He went out with the guys last night and said he'd be home around 11pm but I woke up at 2am and he wasn't home. I lay awake wondering where he was and he never came home. I got a hold of him and he just said he stayed at his friends. I was mad though, I think he should've called me!!
Anyway, sorry this is so long, it's my story

Hi FORGIVEME.<p>Thanks for taking the time to post. It sure is a long story. As I read through it, there are several points where I felt we went through similar things. I also felt I was not important enough for my SO. Sometimes we need or want to be *the* most important thing in somebody's life, and perhaps we actually are very important, but some of us need that to be stated to us, in words, in deeds, in ceremony (i.e. getting married).<p>It seems to me you were not getting what you needed, as I was not getting what I needed. For me it was a long road, and still is, to understand what my insecurity is all about. Mostly, it is not about other people in the present, although things in the present can trigger the feeling, it is mostly about the past. Having felt very insecure as child and teen, it has been a very difficult thing to heal for me. Being hurt in this way, I was always looking for somebody that could give me what I needed, and because it has to do with the past, nobody in the present could or can give me what I needed to heal. At the same time, I was scared of getting involved with someone and then being abandoned, so I was always getting in to relationships with women who were very dependant and would not dump me. Then my current SO came along, and although I had always had the "this is it" illusion, it was always part of this pattern. Well my SO is a very independent person (as your SO seems to be) and I got VERY SCARED of being dumped, and cheated on her with somebody that gave me EXACTLY what my SO was not giving me: unconditional love, approval, somebody who REALLY needed me. Now this may not be exactly what happened in your case, but in your long post it is evident that you were not getting something you needed.<p>It seems that this guy you cheated with the night before going home was giving you something your SO has not been giving you. I guess nobody can tell you what that is, only you can know. You might need help in order to understand and express it. It can help to talk to us here, it can also help to get therapy for yourself. Therapy can also help you heal whatever non met need may be lingering from your past, if that is the case. <p>It worries me that your SO has been spying on you and seems to have known about the A before you told him. Perhaps he has been involved with OWs too. I can understand that he has difficulty trusting you after the A but it also seems that he did not trust you before either.<p>It also comes to mind that distrust, which is in a way the same thing as fear, is an emotion that it totally opposite to love. Since us human beings are pretty complicated, we have this capability of feeling several different things, we can love and fear the same person, for example, but I think we can only do that temporarily. It seems to me that between your and your SO there is a lot of fear, for both of you. You fear he does not care enough for you, he fears you will cheat again. Sure enough, if you stay together and don't find a way to put and end to the fear circle you might cheat again, and so me he. Or you might break up because love has been canceled out by all that fear.<p>In my previous post I said that I envy you. In a way I still do because if there is love and you can get in touch with it together, there is a lot of hope since you have not broken up yet. But you seem to be so caught up in the fear that love is hard to grasp. I in a way, I am past that, I have let go of my SO, I have accepted that our R was running downhill, and after accepting it, I have been able to recognize my deep love for her. <p>I find now that love is not about keeping the other person around. Love is about wanting the other person to be happy.<p>In the days when me and my SO were going through the fear circle, it was good for me to take some time and write down the great things we did together, the special moments we shared. Whenever she would get too scared or mad, I would write her a letter telling her about all the great things I remembered about us and how much I loved her and how much better I was now. Doing that also helped me see that it was worth it. I do not not if it is worth it for you two, only you can know. Perhaps you can write a long letter to him (you certainly can write...) and discover for yourself. If you want to stay together, do not lose contact with the happy, loving things that hold you together. <p>There is this song: "Time after Time" which comes to mind when I remember what me and my SO went through. Perhaps it can be meaningful to you too.<p>Time After Time<p>Please so not be sorry about writing to us. At least for me it feels very good have a chance to help. I hope I had found this site sooner.

Ignacio~
Thank you so much for taking the time to read my post and for replying! So much of what you said makes sense, especially the fear circle. I do feel everyday that I am living in fear of something and it is over taking my feelings of love. I think that I tend to dwell on the bad things that have happened in our relationship too much and I let these bother me so much that I then forget all the wonderful and happythings in our realtionship! Thank you for helping me realize this! Another thing that I fear is that he will never be able to forgive me and not feel the same about me as he used to. I do know that one of the reasons I get upset and feel insecure does stem from my childhood, my parents are divorced but there are other reeasons why I am like this. I feel that if he goes out without me, he will find someone else(there are alot of very pretty girls in these clubs and he is a very good looking guy) and that he will leave me. And this is hard because I have not made a circle of my own friends back here, I feel like if I loose him, I have no one. One thing that my therapist said was that I need to build a support system for myseld whether or not we stay together, I need to create my own friendships to fall back on for support and not be so needy with him. Then after I do this I can figure out if I am with him beacsue I really do love him or I am just staying with him because I am scared of being alone!
Why is life so hard??
Ignacio, is your SO coming over this weekend to drop off the camera?? How are things with you?<p>Take care [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

> Thank you for helping me realize this!<p>Great to be of help!<p>> Another thing that I fear is that he will never be able to forgive me
> and not feel the same about me as he used to.<p>If he gets to understand what happened, he might actually become closer to you than before. Work on understanding and forgiving yourself.<p>> I feel that if he goes out without me, he will find someone else<p>That is a risk we all take when we have a relationship, whether we cheated or not. I am sure if he has stayed all this time with you he must like you and see important things in you that he needs, you must suspect what these are, maybe you can work on yourself to make sure those things continue to be there for him.<p>> One thing that my therapist said was that I need to build a support
> system for my seld whether or not we stay together
> after I do this I can figure out if I am with him beacsue I really do
> love him or I am just staying with him because I am scared
> of being alone<p>Great to know you have pro help. Discovering whether or not you are together makes a lot of sense, not only for yourself but it must also be a concern for him.<p>> Why is life so hard??<p>Ahhhh. Well, I have been thinking lately that some difficulty is necessary so that we can appreciate and not take for granted the great stuff. If there were no dark we wouldn't know what light is. I think life is wonderful, I know you are in pain right now, but think about it, you actually feel, you think, you want to make yourself better, you care about him, about me, about other people on this board, it's a beautiful thing. <p>> Ignacio, is your SO coming over this weekend to drop
> off the camera?? How are things with you?<p>Somehow I am full of hope today. I will send her a text message later or tomorrow asking her to not worry about bringing the camera. That will sure surprise her, uh? [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]