Hello gang,
It has been a little over a week since my WW has been back home from her internship. I can say things were less stressful when she was gone, even with me having sole responsibility of the two kids. Anyway, it is nice to have her back. By my analysis can tell that my Plan A (differentiation) efforts ímpact her, because she is very critical of every move towards independence that I make...(feels good!) <p>A newdelemma has come up, and I'd like to get some suggestions from all of you out there on how to manage the situation before I make any wrong moves.<p>I have a window for a vacation this year between June 15 and July 15. I'd like to take only a week and bring the kids to some nice (and inexpensive) destination in southern Europe. The WW is fighting me on every front. When I brought it up last week, she said that we couldn't go because we'd miss the Midsummer weekend here in Sweden (similar to the 4th of July). The subject came up today again, by her initiative, and she stated that I couldn't take both kids along because the YS was presently suffering too much "separation anxiety" (which sounds totally absurd to me). I invited her to join us on both occasions, but she is refusing becauseshe currently has no job and can't afford it (even though I said I'd pay).
What I am guessing is happening here is that she is affraid that if I take both kids on vacation by myself, her friends and family will really know something is up with our M, and that I'm not standing around and taking it. She semms desperate, but what can I do? I really need a vacation...<p>Thanks for your responses...<p>
Sweden

Make your plans. You offered to compromise, but she refuses to bend. So make your plans however you want and she'll just have to deal with it. If she's overly concerned about how it will look, she'll go along. And if she does she might accidently have some fun and enjoy family time!

Thanks for the reply!
But I can see that she will make a big deal out of it and it could turn into a big-LBer! She could refuse to let me take the youngest along, bla, bla, bla.
If my M is beginning to go down the road to recovery (which I really don't know if that is happening...) then I want to make sure I don't delay it further.
This is just one of those good old issues of when is one being a smart Plan Aer and when is one being a doormat???<p>Sweden

Has she offered ANYTHING for a compromise? How about sitting her down with your ideas, ask her for hers, and see if you can come to some agreement. Tell her you'd like to plan something that will work for all involved, but that you really need a vacation so you'll be making plans reguardless. She can choose to participate, or choose to remain stubborn. I don't think it's a major LB to act like a responsible adult...or is it??? Just make sure it comes across gently...and not as a demand...and I think you're fine.

I have looked at this one from all angles, and I can't see why she would refuse to go. <p>Is there something else going on that we don't know about? <p>As thoughtful as you seem to be, I am sure you have communicated to her your need for a vacation. What did she say about your offer to pay? <p>Another thought, could you leave children with someone and just wife and you go? then perhaps do a short few days trip later with children? <p>Just thinking with the keyboard.I can't understand at all where she is comming from. <p>SS <p>SS

Thanks again for the replies.
There is something going on here that I don't totally get. My guess is that if I leave with the kids, her parents and siblings will know something is up with our marriage. It will look bad for her since I was the one that spent the past 6 weeks alone with the kids and conversing with her family. This is only my guess though.<p>I read the situation this evening here to see how to best approach the situation (w/o LBing). Yes, an adult conversation would be nice here, but because of some sort of Fog right now, she immediately flies off the deep end.
Example:
When I brought this topic up the first time about four days ago, she immediately replied with comments about D! I really feel it necessary that she learns to grow up some...<p>Sweden

I see, so the youngest child is going to suffer from seperation anxiety if you go on vacation, so she refuses to go with and refuses to let you take him....but a D won't give him anxiety at all. Yup...some kind of fog going on.

Yes,
I just wrote in my notes the very same comment! Interesting how these things can only apply one way, isn't it? My hope is that she will make the connection herself regarding the separation anxiety (short term vs. long term), or that a friend will also point it out to her. Of course, I can't say anything myself.
If Plan Aing is about working on yourself, then I have probably done a reasonable job at it, but the problem is now I must fight off being dragged down in the muck each time I want to have a conversation with her regarding something we don't completely agree upon. This part really stinks; it's like she gets a club to fight with and I get only a little twig!<p>Sweden

Here's an additional thought.
If there is an OM, she may not want to be out of contact with him for more than a day or two...
She has had the luxury of being able to maintain some sort sort of outside contact with others (friends, classmates, OM?) non-stop now via SMSing on her mobile telephone or by e-mailing. If she went to southern Europe somewhere, that would have to stop, and would also show the OM that she really isn't as committed to him as she would make it appear, after all she'd be with me. Only a spontanious idea...but one begins to think in strange ways in these situations. <p>Sweden

That's what I was wondering ( OM) but thought you would have a better idea if it was the cause/ reason. <p>She may be in deeper than you thought. <p>You seem to take this so well, but it has got to bother you. We feel for you. <p>If you are going to take this holiday, you need to do something right away. If she refuses to discuss it rationally, I would be tempted to just tell her how it was going to be. But I am a demanding type A personality. It looks like there will be no POJA at all. What other choice do you have now? <p>I would probably say " I am taking a holiday, the children are going with me. I would hope you would come, if not we are going anyway." <p>I don't think I would allow someone with irrational behavior to always do what they want. <p>Perhaps it's time to take charge for a while? <p>Hope you can keep up your positive attitude.
SS

Sweden:<p>What about the possibility that she's jealous of the time you're spending with the kids. I know it doesn't make sense - after all, she was gone on this internship all this time. But since you'd be on vacation, doing visible family stuff, possibly without her (and so the relatives would notice), maybe she's jealous because she's realizing that she's not been devoting enough attention to her family, but you clearly are.<p>This is a good plan A activity. Do it. Take W if you can get her to go, but I would go regardless.

I agree. Look out for you. You need a break. The kids would probably love a holiday. If she goes, great. If not that is her boggle. She is only looking out for herself right now and remember, when they are in the fog they aren't the same rational person you once knew. If she is going to act childish, treat her like a child. You are being the adult here and I say you deserve something fun.
Go for it!
Layli

Thanks!
Since yesterday, I have discovered my WWs plan of attack for our marital situation. Because I am presently her only real form of financial support, she will keep me in the house only for the time it takes for her to locate a job. Once she has obtained a job, I get the boot! <p>We can say this brings a little twist into the whole vacation situation. Now I am wondering if I should scrap the idea of a vacation and save the money for a possible plane ticket back to the US?
I feel myself running out of energy to work on this when her thoughts and ideas are so filled with lies & coverups. <p>As seemingly good as I have become at Plan Aing, I am wondering now if it has been the wrong approach? Maybe it is time for some Tough Love instead? Plan A seems only to allow me to be a doormat, and no matter how positive I can be around the house, she will do something to try and drag me down.<p>Any thoughts?<p>Sweden

Sweden:<p>If she's already that far gone from your M, planning to toss you as soon as she gets a job, why not go to the US with the kids for your "vacation" instead of S. Europe, then just stay there. She's a big girl, she can find a job anyway regardless of whether you're there or not. <p>Plan A is about YOU, as you know. If you feel you're doing well for yourself and your kids, and there's no reason to keep trying with her, go to plan B.<p>Take care,

2long
Believe me, the thought of taking them back to the US has crossed my mind many times recently. But I also feel it would inhibit any attempt at rebuilding, and it would also deny the kids the access to their mother, which is important to them, no matter how messed up in the head she is currently.
Because today was a down day on this rollercoaster, I went out and purchased a new book (in Swedish) on divorce (or avoiding one). Time to explore more about this "national pasttime" here. I will also call the local men's counselling center in the morning for an IC appt. My focus this round will be on properly preparing for a divorce, w/o hopefully having to go through the process. The counselor is pretty focused on getting me to "stand on my own two feet," so it is almost always a very positive experence.
If I do get the boot, I then feel it is the obvious time to move on to a strong Plan B.<p>Thanks!<p>Sweden

Did she tell you flat out that she was going to D after she found job? Or did you discover it some other way? <p>You will be glad you did a good plan A. <p>But I vote for B now. It looks like it is time. <p>SS

No, I did a little snooping actually to find out. Naughty me... I am guessing that she doesn't want to talk about it because if she brings it up, it could indroduce some sort of uncertainty to the situation, my booting her out or something. It would also not give her the time advantage in the situation.<p>My appt. with the IC should let me know how the system functions here in Sweden. Because Swedes are generally not the combatative types, there could be some major differences in the legal system here in comparison to the US.<p>The interesting part about all of this is that we often get along quite well while in the apt. together, which gives me a bit of hope that she could move a step closer to wanting to work on it. Maybe I'm just fooling myself though...<p>Sweden

Sweden:<p>Yeah, but if she's contemplating DV without telling you, she's being combative. If you two DV, with kids involved, you need to communicate, big time.<p>I hope that your getting along when together can be used as a positive sign for a future together, if that's what you want.

As we once discussed, her problem is an addiction. I believe things will not change unless she can get over it. Plan A will not help here, ( but will on the other end.) Plan B may do it, but if not, you know where it will go. <p>I agree with 2long, if she is planning D without discussing it, she is combative and you should already know what your options are. It sounds like she thinks you don't know what is going on. <p>You need to stay ahead of her. <p>Ss

She mentioned the "D" word last week in our initial discussion about the vacation. By her LBing response, I do feel it came only out of frustration and uncertainty. She also hinted that it was I who was going to initiate the D. I nicely exclaimed that I would do no such thing.
This is where all of this becomes interesting, I feel. She wants me to get out of her life, but not tooooo far out. She was very nervous about my moving back to the US when this all started, and also asked about it again 2 weeks ago when she was still doing her internship. I think this is typical for someone who wants to have the best of two worlds (new, free romance + family stability).<p>Although I am tiring of the whole situation, if I give up now I only feel it will solidify her thoughts that this relationship can't work.<p>Sweden