I really do not know how to handle this. I am trying to be honest with WH and he just gets really mad and has a pity party for himself whenever he finds out that somebody at work or in our personal life find out about his A. <p>I have told very few people and WH knows who they are in each case and exactly what they were told. He was adamant at d-day that he didn't want anyone to know, but then confessed that two of his friends had known about the A for 6 months. I told him I really did not think I could just handle this myself with no support and that I would talk to my two best female friends and be clear with them that while no excuse for the A, I had not exactly been faultless in our marriage problems prior to the A.<p>He spends a great deal of time complaining to me about how people at his office know/oh woe is me/what am I going to do -- his A is with an employee for pete's sake; how did he think others wouldn't notice?!?<p>We are separated and his parents still do not know this. When they call our house, it puts me in the position of lying, which is really awful. <p>Now, we have a mutual friend from graduate school coming into town tonight for dinner. This is a woman we have known since then for 10 years. WH asks if he can come to dinner. I was honest with him and said that yes, he could join us, but he needed to know that XX knew about the A and our marriage difficulties because I had told her about it on the phone last night. WH got really quiet and very annoyed with me. He cannot stand it when anybody knows. I did not do this in a mean way or tell him about it sarcastically, I just wanted to let him know that I had shared this with her before he made a decision to come to dinner.<p>Why is it a LB for anybody to know about this? It's not as if I have revealed it to hoardes of people, but my WH considers ANYBODY knowing to be an LB. <p>I get confused because the Harley's state that A typically end after xx months when the A have seen the light of day. I am not completely sure I understand what seen the light of days means here. I have not told anyone that he deals with professionally (we work in the same field and I have to interact with his office 2-3x a week). I have not told his parents or mine. I have told three friends that have been my support system throughout this. The ones I have told I have been very honest with about my contributions to the conditions in our marriage that pre-dated the A and I have told my WH specifically who I have told and what I have told them. <p>Any thoughts on how I should be handling this differently? Other people are finding out about his A, but it is NOT coming from the three friends I have told (two of whom live out of state and have no other connection to his personal or professional life).

Funny, I was just speaking of that very same thing. My H and are are doing great (i think) in recovery. Almost a year since d-day. For the 1st month when I thought we where working it out I never told anyone. BUT THEN he said he wanted to leave; I lost it and told 1 very close friend and family members. I needed support. <p>He was really pissed; especially that I had told my sister cuz he thought she would "blab". He was so so worried about his reputation. He also made it clear if it got around he would know it was because of me and who I told. He just knew the OW would not tell ANYBODY...she had already told her mother. and she has a twin sister; i bet she knows too. <p>I was really pissed for a while that if it came out he would blame me. I can tell you what my counselor said. She said, "I Hoped you laughed and told him that was ridiculous. If he didn't want people to find out he should not have done it." Not to mention, more people probably know than I ever imagined.<p>My biggest hangup is the one person I know DOES NOT know is the OW's spouse. He is completely in the dark. Sometime I feel I want him to know so she can go through hell like I did, sometimes I feel he should know cuz he has a right to know what is really going on. Most of the time though, I pray he does not find out. I know it sounds selfish but I have gone through so much I don't want anymore chaos in my life. Who know what he would do if he found out.<p>Anyway, we are doing great and I am to the point I don't care as much. IF word somehow gets around and he blames me; I am strong enough now that I will NOT take the heat. <p>There was a time i was scared it would happen, he would get mad, and leave. NOW, I know he will just have to deal with it or if he has nerve to still act idiotic and blame me for his actions I would tell him to take a long walk off a short pier.<p>Things are great now though, and I think he realizes just how great things are. I think when/if it makes the rounds we are both healed and matured enough to handle it in an adult way. I hope so anyway. <p>I don't worry about it like I once did though. It was terrible that I was actually scared people would find out and he'de be mad. It is a pretty bad period when you feel you have to protect and cover up for your spouses bad choices. <p>Now I do understand where he was coming from though. He felt so guilty and like a lowlife that it was hard to think of having people know. I tried to think of all the mistakes I have made in life and how I felt about people knowing about the. Instead of dealing with his anger and actions it was easier for him to focus it somewhere else. We have both come a long way since then; Thank God. <p>Protect your privacy the best you can; it is not helpful when meddling people know but lean on trustworthy people when you need to. You can't be expected to hold it all in. It could destroy you. <p>I would think he could expect you to protect him and your privacy when possible...but hee can't expect you to be the responsible party when/if people find out. Someone might have seen him in his ventures....they like to think they are so sneaky and slick that no one knows....but 9 times outta 10 someone spots you along the way. You usually just don't hear about it unless you separate. Then people tend to run to you and you get the "I saw this or I saw that" stories.<p>Sometimes you just have to pay the consequences of your own actions.

Hi, Unsureheart.<p>This is gonna sound harsh, but the way I look at it (and I'm FBS and FWS) is "You do the crime - you do the time".<p>Having an affair is a really crappy thing, and it has definite repercussions. It's to be expected. Sounds like your FWH is just ashamed and embarrassed...well, too bad. It's not like you're out the blabbing it to everyone. You have the right to a support system of friends and family, and they can't support you unless they know what's wrong. I made the mistake of only telling my mom after my FWH's first affair. I basically struggled with the immense burden of it by myself. It was VERY hard. The last time (EA), I immediately called our Pastor (who's a good friend of FWH) and my parents, and told anyone who was interested. My whole family knows, and many of his co-workers. It made FWH directly face what he was doing, and he had no choice but to see that he was being a total creep...and everyone knew it. Our pastor even said -considering past infidelities - he'd support me regardless of my decision (stay or leave him). That felt really good. After the first affair I felt like it had to be my fault because I wasn't "woman" enough for him. I carried all that alone at 23 years old. Not this time, and never again. I felt like screaming it from the roof tops. FWH literally JUMPED into repentance and recovery with both feet! He never acted angry because I told anyone -- he KNEW he deserved it. <p>I don't know what to tell you about how to handle your FWH's anger about this. Just wanted you to know that you haven't done anything wrong by telling the people you told. Again, you do the crime - you do the time!<p>I wish you full recovery and peace in your heart.<p>at peace

This isn't actually an LB......IMHO.<p>Your H doesn't want anyone to know because he's embarrased about what he has done. If it was "all good" then he wouldn't care who knew now would he?<p>My H's A was with a coworker also...he WAS her boss. <p>I think you should quit lying for him.
You are now enabeling him to sit on the fence by doing this.
Everyone deserves to know the truth and you deserve to be ablet o tell it....especially to both of your parents.<p>There comes a point in time where you have to decide what you ARE and AREN'T willing to put up with....one of mine was the fact that I WOULD NOT lie for my H.<p>When we seperated....if someone called for him, I simple told them that he no longer lived there and I didn't know exactly how to get ahold of him other than calling him at work. <p>You don't owe ANYONE an explanation.
BUT.....you owe it to yourself to not get drawn so far in that you lie for your H and then start making excuses for him and his behaviour.<p>In your H's mind....lying for him is proof to him that no matter what he does....you will put up with whatever he does. The line has to be drawn somewhere to let him know that there are boundaries.

I know you want to say what I said to my xwh..."If you didn't want people to know you had an affair, you shouldn't have one." Whew! Big LB I know...<p>My husband was too shocked that people knew about it...especially since wacko xow was telling everyone and their brother. (and they were attending local football games where 100,000 people attend) Nothing spreads faster than nasty gossip especially in a workplace.<p>If he doesn't face what he has done (not that you should be the one making him face it, quite the contrary) then he will not learn what he needs to learn. Sounds like he doesn't want to suffer the consequenses of his actions. <p>I don't think you should be lying for him...at all. If he doesn't want you to reveal certain facts about your lives, then have the inquiring party speak to him about it.

I'm a new MB here, but I wanted to share something. For over a year when H and I were in counseling, I never told a soul and I'm so sorry I didn't. After d-day, I told my mom, sister and best girlfriend and they were all just floored. It was such a weight off of me to finally tell (and not all the intimate details) and they were SO very supportive - that I wished I would have said something prior. Hang in there and build your own support team - your spouse, when he is ready and willing, will build his own - protect yourself.<p>Llama Hhugs!

I know you want to say what I said to my xwh..."If you didn't want people to know you had an affair, you shouldn't have one." Whew! Big LB I know...<p>My husband was too shocked that people knew about it...especially since wacko xow was telling everyone and their brother. (and they were attending local football games where 100,000 people attend) Nothing spreads faster than nasty gossip especially in a workplace.<p>If he doesn't face what he has done (not that you should be the one making him face it, quite the contrary) then he will not learn what he needs to learn. Sounds like he doesn't want to suffer the consequenses of his actions. <p>I don't think you should be lying for him...at all. If he doesn't want you to reveal certain facts about your lives, then have the inquiring party speak to him about it.

Thank you all for your replys. I don't know what it is about all of this, but my WH has an ability to make me feel like I am crazy and that I did something wrong by talking to a few people. I have not LB'd I don't think (and most of your responses confirm that) because I have been calm when I told him who I told and I have not gone out of my way to tell people that could hurt him professionally or otherwise. <p>I really have to bite my tongue when the WS have a pity party for themselves over what they have done. It's just too much sometimes.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by unsureheart:
<strong>. It's just too much sometimes.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Ain't it the truth. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Oh, and you're NOT crazy! Don't let him make you think you're crazy or wrong about this! It's just FWS residual fog crap...ignore it and hold your head high!<p>Lori

Let your H have his little pity parties by himself. Don't let it affect you either way.
He feels sorry enough for himself....he doesn't need anyone else to help him with that.<p>Of course he has to make you feel like YOUR crazy or that YOU did something wrong......it's his way of making himself feel better about what he has done.<p>My H was the same way. He was actually very verbally abusive when he would do this to me. He had actually convinced himself that sowhow I WAS to blame for his A. Not sure where that came from....but it's common in WS's.<p>Since you and your H are now seperated it should be easier for you to concentrate on your Plan A.....can't say that I know your whole story since I've been away for a while and don't visit as often as I use to.......but for me it was easier since I didn't have his constant presence and I wasn't constantly walking on eggshells.<p>Coming out of the fog and going back into is pretty normal. It's like seeing a light at the end of the tunnel but the faster you walk towards it the faster it moves away from you.<p>Until your H takes responisibility for what he has done and really takes a look at himself he will continue to fence sit. Sorry to say that almost anything YOU have to say will be seen as an LB to him until he is READY to see the light.

ditto Miss Priss.<p>By lying for him - or by protecting him from the truth - you're a participant in the affair. You don't have to blab to everyone you meet on the street, but neither should you cover for him.<p>His parents don't know you're separated? Next time they call, tell them he doesn't live there anymore and if they ask why, tell them the truth as you understand it with a recommendation they ask their son for themselves.<p>To hurtbuthealing143, re: not telling OW's H: how would you like it if someone kept such a secret from you?

USH;
I think the reaction about revelations of the A is natural for the WS to have.<p>Having said that, however, it is ALSO natural for the BS to be able to talk to close friends and perhaps family about what is going on in their life.<p>Perhaps we need to strike a balance here. The WS is ashamed and feels guilty, the BS needs support and understanding for what is going on inside them.<p>I think that a frank discussion about this is necessary, and we, the BS, also need to be careful about how we do it. If it is done in ways that "appear" to be retribution to the WS, then perhaps it's unhealthy, so care should be taken for this not to be the case. However, covering up for the WS is not healthy for the BS, and the support we get from speaking with friends is necessary.<p>Besides, I feel that when others know, if it is done in a "healthy" way, it may help the WS see the reality of their actions, and perhaps can help in the weaning process.

To WAT, Miss Priss, and Spacecase -- Thank you for the input. I have really struggled with the not telling his parents. It is going to sound very strange why I have been so reluctant. My WH's father is a narcissistic and extremely judgmental person who as best I can tell (and my WH's therapist agrees) is a major cause of my WH's self-esteem issues. Mind you, part of me says "baloney" about the lingering effects of this as my WH is 40 years old, but the father is the most domineering man I have ever met. <p>I thought long and hard about this over the past months. As much as I would like to tell domineering dad that his little boy is not perfect and has some serious issues here, I am almost positive that this man would never forgive his son and the level of verbal abuse would be extreme. Am I protecting my WH in this? Yes, but not without some reservations. I do believe that to tell his father would end our marriage. That sounds really dysfunctional when I write it down here, but I don't want my H back in my marriage just because his father orders it to be so; and that is what would be in the back of my mind.<p>As you might guess, my WH has many other demons he is struggling with that are tied to the A. Lack of self-esteem being just the tip of the iceberg. I struggle with what will ultimately help him, what will ultimately help our M, and are they at odds/mutually exclusive? My WH asked that I meet with his therapist and the therapist told me in no uncertain terms that if I wanted to work on my marriage, I would not tell domineering dad. <p>At the same time, I think he should be told and possibly create the footing for an honest adult relationship between father and son. On the other hand, the father is extremely judgmental, verbally cruel toward his family (although they worship the ground he walks on/go figure?), and I can only guess what his treatment of his youngest son/his last hope (only child that went to college and graduate school in a management position) would be -- it's clearly dysfunctional and sad.<p>So, for now, I feel ok telling a few friends. I believe upper management in his organization know about the A with the employee and although it clearly violates written policy; they have chosen to ignore it. My WH is considering leaving his job, but waffles weekly. Telling the parents is a step I'm not sure I can take yet -- but would appreciate further advice on this.

Well, I just got off the phone with WH. I hung up on him, which was bad, but he did it again. He called to say he did not want to have dinner with our friend because I had told her about the A. I told him I understood and was sorry to hear he felt uncomfortable and that people are more understanding/supportive/non-judging than what he gives them credit for. He went on to ask again exactly who had I told. I repeated the three people and he said "and XX must be telling everyone about it because YYY in my office knows". I said "YYY in your office knows because you were having an A with one of your employees on company time and that is was really unfair to blame me for people in his office knowing". I went on to say that I felt I had bent over backwards by not telling his family and was basically put in the position of lying to them and maybe he was comfortable with lying but I was not. This was probably an LB because I then hung up the phone as I was about to burst into tears at work. <p>I am so sick of the pity party. I am trying to have compassion for his situation, but feel this is just too much.

ush - this is just another variation of blame shifting universally practiced by WSs (and others, for that matter) in denial. If it wasn't the "telling others" he blames you for, it would be something else. Take it to the bank - you are public enemy number one and there is nothing you can do about it. But take some surreal comfort in knowing that as the object of his blame, you're likely the object of his strongest emotions as well.<p>As hard as it may be to accept, you should not take any of this personally. <p>Step back and assess the situation using your still logical thought processes: is what he's saying make sense? Of course not. <p>Conclusion: he's irrational. <p>Conclusion: you're not.<p>The numero uno, number one, biggest mistake we BSs make is trying to logically assess what the WSs do. The next mistake we make is arguing with them about it. Once again: have you ever tried to reason with a drunk? Same thing.<p>Please try hard to find the dark humor in his actions. When he comes at you from left field, don't respond. Just sit back in amazement at the wonders of the human mind.

Thanks WAT -- I do try and find the dark humor. He says the most amazing things. Some of it I can just register and not react to, but I'm having a harder time with the "please pity me" because my office knows about my A with someone in my office. It's just so ridiculous. <p>He just emailed me and said sorry but he felt everyone was judging him -- mind you it wasn't I'm sorry for blaming this on you. <p>Why do I love this man? That is the humorous part right now. He lies. He lies repeatedly. He blames me for the moon waxing and waning. I just keep believing that the real person I love will re-emerge.

Let me just say this, and it's really directed toward your WH:<p>People find out. Regardless of the many sources, some people just assume enough from viewing interaction between the WS and the OW to start rumors. The source is not the point, it is unimportant. Your spouse needs to realize, as mine did after we found out that word was on the street, that he did not owe the gossips of the county anything. He owed me. And as soon as the next wind of gossip came through, my WHs A would be old news. And guess what - it was. And there are many people that if they can't confirm it by seeing continued misbehavior by the WS, then they will just assume it was a rumor and never give it another thought.<p>How did my H squelch the rumors? He quit his flirting with the OW on the job. He quit visiting with her. He quit being around her. He quit being even friendly to her. He's borderline uncivil to her now - 6 months later. He has spent his every waking minute trying to make our marriage work, and I have too. And even people who know the truth will forgive the WS when they see the WS trying to do the right thing. No one wants to see your husband fail. Secretly most of them are rooting for him to do the right thing. To help you heal. To show the world that you are number one to him. He needs to be so caught up in doing those things that he doesn't even notice the curious looks etc. Most people will also keep their mouths shut. I've only had one person who heard the rumor that actually asked me about it, and it was a close male co-worker whom I had not shared the information with because I felt it would be inappropriate. No one who heard the rumor has asked my WH about it!!! People are still kind and polite to him. They are not trying to rub his face in it. Oh, there may be a time when something is said off handedly that may be directed at his A, but that's part of the price. And quite often those comments might have been made anyway, but before the A they didn't strike a nerve. <p>My recommendation to him: He needs to worry a whole lot more about what you think of him than what the town thinks of him. If he doesn't, then why are you so worried about protecting HIS feelings?!?!

The odds are he will re-emerge. If he's feeling that everyone is judging him, I think that's a good sign. In comparison, my WS never reached this point - she continued to judge everybody else because she was perfect.<p>I suggest you just validate him when he is seeking pity.<p>Him: Woe is me, everybody thinks I've been abducted by aliens.<p>You: How awful!!<p>Him: I don't know what to do!<p>You: It must be a helpless feeling.<p>Him: No one understands!<p>You: You must feel very lonely.<p>If you can do this, tell us what happens.<p>WAT

unsureheart.....
It is very true that what goes around comes around. The repercussions will be a learning curve for your H. It is something that very few think about while they are selfishly in the midst of their A.
He is obviously ashamed !!
To a certain extent it is out of your control.
You can't control what other people say and people aren't blind either.

Thanks WAT, jamup and daisychick -- I know what you say is true and rational and I cannot understand how I let all of this get to me, but I do. I just got back from dinner with our grad school friend and she made me LOL in the restaurant. She was unhappy that WH had decided not to come to dinner. She basically said "what did he think I would do, stand up in my chair in the restaurant and ask that a big A be pinned to his chest and see that he was placed in the stocks in the town square". I needed to laugh. That's the thing here. Even though this whole thing/the A has been one of the worst experiences of my life, I have found ways to laugh about it. My WH finds no humor in anything. He believes the world is out to get him. <p>Jamup your reply really rang true to me. If he was really working on our M, then he would be less concerned about what people think. I think there should be consequences to the A (for both him and OW/even though I'm not supposed to concern myself with her I think she's got some weird issues for socializing with us as a couple throughout the A and I still have to interact with her in a work setting/yuck). Right now he feels remorse and guilt for what he has done, but is absolutely consumed with "what do other people think of me" rather than "what does my BS think of me". A hurdle to be sure, but hopefully not insurmountable.<p>Thanks everyone for their thoughts on this -- it was driving me NUTS. Now that I've had two glasses of wine, I am finding the humor in my WH's bizarre paranoia. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]