My story is in my link below. <p>One of my H biggest concerns is me and not wanting to have S. I'm in therapy now and working with a great therapist. Not trying to share too much, but I'm not thinking my lack of wanting S has anything to do with one thing in particular.<p>A. We don't have much intimacy and I know that is a great need of mine.<p>B. I know I have "punished" my H for his bad behavior by not being there for him S. I don't believe I was necessary conscience of it at the time.<p>C. I had gained alot of weight and was not feeling pretty or comfortable in my own skin. <p>My H did try lots of times to help me overcome this frost - the ice started melting on a trip we took in March and we were slowly but surely meeting each other's SF needs. All this time, he was having an online EA with someone else, etc. <p>He's still WAY in the fog with a glimpse of fog lifting every once in a while. But, he says he is ready for counseling - we'll see about that. <p>Any other ladies been in this predicament? I love my H, I find him sexy and handsome, but couldn't be SF for most of our 2 year marriage until recently. My therapist says this happens to alot of women and my friends have said the same thing.<p>I know my H is very angry about this, I don't think he understands the "intimacy" thing and now with everything that has happened (has seen OW 3x in 5 weeks since d-day) and not knowing if it is more than EA, he says it is NOT a PA.<p>So ladies (and gents - wasn't trying to leave you out) - what are your suggestions for global warming? Also, if you've been or are in my shoes, I'd like to hear from you. I think this is hard to talk about and I've been debating on whether or not to post - so I'm hoping I'll hear from someone.<p>Llama Hhugs!

Hi Llama -- Ugh. Your questions bring up many issues for me. One of the problems in our marriage was my not meeting my WH's SF needs in the way or in the quantity that he would like. I just kept thinking that one day I would wake up and feel sexy again and be able to meet this need more wholeheartedly. Like you I had gained some weight and felt ignored everywhere except when he wanted SF (although I did not really understand the concept of meeting eachothers' different needs at the time). <p>My WH never let on that this was a significant issue for him until I discovered the A and his revelations about visiting prostitutes a few times before his A with a co-worker. I was devastated to say the least. He didn't raise it in the marriage counseling we had last summer (while the A was in full bloom) and basically indicated that he was fine with the relative lack of SF (what a joke -- SF is his numero uno need). <p>Anyway, what to do I really don't know other than this is something I have been working on with my therapist and I have been reading about it (passionate marriage is good). Our sex life used to be amazing and it died and I really cannot think of a good reason why other than we stopped meeting eachothers other needs and life just got in the way. Really lame excuse I know. <p>I hope somebody else responds here.

Thanks for sharing UnSureHeart - I know this is a touchy subject and I'm hoping to hear from more of the ladies on this one.<p>Llama

ditto on pretty much all the same circumstances.<p>husband didnt get that i needed to feel good-meeting my needs in order to respond. in response to my needs not being met-i withdrew...more and more. it was a vicious cycle. <p>i believe he is getting this now. although he is not great, yet, at meeting my needs(i have faith in him getting better), it does make it easier for me to be in the mood. he realizes in the beginning we didnt just fall into bed-he had to work for it if you know what i mean. he once stated he wanted things to be as passionate as it was back then, so i asked him when he was gonna start working it again. he understood it more when i explained it this way. they want the passion, but become comfortable with the availability. so try to explain it to them like that. maybe it will help.<p>we use to set a time for foreplay-in the beginning we set a 1 hour timeframe. by the time the 1 hour was up i thought the two of us were gonna tear each other apart. (we quickly realized that this worked for us.)<p>maybe this will help

I felt the same way your WH felt about you. Slowly as time went on, I began to think and even tell my WW that she did not like sex. I was very very wrong. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] We were not communicating on what we needed sexually. I wanted sex more often and she wanted sex a certain way, and eventually she started to say no to sex and I stopped initiating.<p>I just finished a book "Mars and Venus in the Bedroom." This is a must read. It explains in very easy terms how to comunicate and what goes on in the man's and women's mind. It gives some good ways of how to communicate to each other about sex. About how quickies are O.K. About how men are like the sun and women are like the moon when it comes to sex. Some times a women can not climax and that is O.K. too because like the moon, the women may be out of phase.<p>It was a very revealing book. Read also this thread I started a while ago about this. This sex thing really messed with my mind when my wife was radically honest with me. I am happy for the honesty because it forced me to deal with my hangups about sex.<p>Is sex that important to Women?

yay dreamland! I'm glad you posted that link. I was going to look for it when I saw llama's questions.<p>I second the recommendation on the Mars Venus book as well. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

nikko-
Thanks for your input - I like the hour of foreplay idea! If my H could only see that the last few months of him meeting my needs: conversation/admiration, etc. was helping getting his needs met with me. I felt we were at a turning point. Just didn't know he was getting some of his needs met by OW - UGH!<p>dreamland-
Thanks for posting here. I followed that other thread. For me, I know a big part of it was lack of intimacy. I can't just jump in the sack and hit the hay, so to speak. His frustration about it all made me feel really pressured and then I built up resentment. And as you can see by my response to Nikko - just when I thought it was getting better, there was a whole new twist and secret life I didn't know about. Dreamland, my heart goes out to you. I don't post on your threads much, but I do follow them as often as I can. Hang in there!<p>Llama

Hey llama - I think your therapist is right, it happens to many women. I have found that if I am having a lot of good sex, I want more. I'm happier, sexier feeling, and want to initiate more often. But it is waaay too easy to slip away from that. After a few days, or weeks, of not having sex, my need just seems to evaporate. I don't even miss it or want it, and it just seems like too much effort to engage. Libido begets libido, I guess.<p>Going through the motions has helped. I know it's a top EN for my H, so even though I feel quite artificial sometimes, I want to meet that need. Once we get going, I find that I am no longer doing it just for him, but enjoying it thoroughly myself.<p>As far as technical matters - we are pretty experienced sexually, and have always had good communication about sexual likes and dislikes. And even with all of that, we still stumble, sputter, and stall out from time to time. We both get caught up in the tapes stuck in our heads (like his belief that if I don't orgasm from straight intercourse, I must not be satisfied. No matter how many times I tell him he is completely wrong on this subject, he still comes back to it).<p>We are also quite open about experimenting with different acts, "toys", costumes, etc. That has often helped break down some of our barriers. It has also helped us to set aside specific "nights of pleasure" where one partner is focused on pleasing the other, and no reciprocation is allowed. I loved knowing that he had no expectations from me, and that I could just relax and enjoy and direct the action.

Hey Llama, I was wondering how you are doing. Isn't today the day he is due back from trip? I hope it goes well. I have a few suggestions that I thought I would run past you but I have to tell you a bit of irony. My husband thinks he is in love with the other woman but in lust with me. We have a great sex life. I went through my phases but I just try to imagine what would really blow his mind and then I do it. Outrageousness gets them every time. I also find if I start talking about fantsies with him it kind of gets us both going. I don't know much else. Hope maybe it helps. Keep me up to date.
Hugs!!!!!
Layli

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> He's still WAY in the fog with a glimpse of fog lifting every once in a while. has seen OW 3x in 5 weeks since d-day) and not knowing if it is more than EA<hr></blockquote><p>My goodness girl, how can you really expect to be emotionally prepared to have sex with him if he's continuing an affair. While it may be necessary to get him back, don't expect to much of yourself. Us women are very emotional critters. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] When we are being stabbed in the back, it is very hard to be loving in the front!!! When we are frightened, feeling unprotected etc. it is only natural to tuck tail and run - run AWAY from what is hurting us, not TO it!! I think you need to understand this about yourself and try to work around it if SF is what is necessary to bring your H back to you. If he's fulfilling none of your ENs, then you are not getting the MENTAL foreplay that you need!! Instead of being able to have a loving sexual moment, it has to be all about lust, and lust is the strongest when 2 people first meet. And that's no longer the case with couples that have been married a long time. Love is what makes the sex great after the lust wears off. <p>Don't be so hard on yourself to perform up to a standard. Don't demand feelings of yourself that just aren't there. Sorry if that sounds kind of robotic, but I think that's probably where you are at right now. Just trying to go through the motions because you know he wants it.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> know I have "punished" my H for his bad behavior by not being there for him S. <hr></blockquote><p>And please don't use lack of sex as punishment. I know you realize how damaging this can be, and it is also unbiblical!

Let me add this, if you are on birth control pills, they may be affecting your desire and performance. When I quit taking the pill, my desire increased 110% as well as my enjoyment of sex itself. We've been using alternate forms of birth control successfully now for 2 years. It's made all of the difference in the world!!

After D-day gave me confirmation that I had lost everything that mattered to me in my M, I decided to have an A, too. But I was fortunate in that my H wanted me and the M (though he, too, was continuing contact for 2-4 months after D-day). So I decided to have an A with my H. I used him as a sex object. I basically hated him in a lot of ways, but for some reason I was able to do what I had always had trouble with before: separate sex from emotion. I think because all was lost, so why not get SOMETHING that would make me feel good?<p>I had no more inhibitions. I was no longer embarrassed about my body or what I did or how I looked or anything other than my own pleasure. I guess because I had lost everything else and this was all I had left? Not to mention that I had already suffered the ultimate in humiliation and rejection! There was no way I could make it any worse by being more sexual. There's nothing lower than the bottom--the worst that could happen had already happened--I'd already been discarded and replaced.<p>Once I looked at it that way, it was easier to just think about what *I* wanted sexually, and that was the one area in which my H was willing to give it to me, so I took everything I could get. <p>Try thinking in different terms. Sometimes having a paradigm shift like that really helps. Thinking in more selfish terms, especially if your H is a willing partner, will probably help. Don't think of it as doing it for him--think of it as doing it for you. Decide what YOU want and do that. Don't hold anything back. Do the things you were too scared to try before. There's nothing to be scared of anymore. What else can he do to you? In my case, my H fell in love with the new me. Nurture your sexuality. It can only get better if you do.

ks41 - thanks for your reply. I appreciate you sharing with me.<p>layli - hang in there girl. Yes, he did get back in town last night. Still WAY in the FOG - I think he's in the thickest now - UGH. I'll post to your thread later today.<p>jamup - thanks for your post. I posted this because this has been one of my issues for some time in our marriage. I'm not planning or ready to be with my H in any physical way right now. I just wanted to open this thread up for conversation from other women who may have experienced the same thing. Yes, I agree about the birth control thing - I went off the pill in November and things were beginning to heat up again in March. I appreciate your sharing and everything you said makes complete sense to me - thanks!<p>Llama

My story seems so different here, but maybe you can see this view - before A, we were both in the "Withdrawal" state of Marriage, not a lot of sex, always initiated by him, me believing what I had read over the years that women don't have much sexual desire when their other emotional needs aren't met, the Kevin Leman stuff - Sex begins in the kitchen...<p>Imagine my surprise when after Dday I have the hots for him all the time. <p>Possible Explanations:
(1) My need for honesty is actually being met at a higher level than before the A - we are talking about deep, personal beliefs and feelings, even if his behaviors are things I can't condone.
(2) The fight or flight adrenaline thing - under stress some beople get horny?
(3) At the beginning, I assumed that the marriage was over, I never knew marriages could recover (my mom's ended because of my dad's A). So I told H "I'm going to cherish you for whatever time we have left together." (This was even before I read any Harley books.)
(4) Several books I read suggested that if he has not been have his SF needs met, it is a good thing to meet that need as a part of a plan A (not all books using the plan A terminology).<p>Then like KS41 said, once I started having more, I wanted more - like 2 and 3 times a day. Finally in Feb, he asked for less! What a turn around!<p>Anyway, I know that I too, though mostly unconsciously, withheld sex because he wasn't "emotionally present" for me. Now, I am not in bargaining mode any more. I am a channel of God's love for him and one way (a great way) to express it is sex.<p>OTOH, lately he has not been getting enough sleep (work deadlines and World Cup) so there isn't as much sex and my desire has gone down.

My story was much like yours...vicious circle of not meeting each others needs...my resentment came out by not meeting SF and also just not feeling loving because my Emotional needs were not being met. I also had some health issues, some past issues, and just plain stressed out all the time. <p>The A was kinda shock therapy on reminding me what S was all about. For me it was about wanting to be that close to someone in a very intimate private way---Almost losing him reminded me of that.<p>Qality of S was always great...better than with OW so hubby says...but it was the quantity and what the lack of meeting the SF did to him.<p>the mars venus in the bedroom by John Gray is very good. I second that motion. It really shows both view points--man & women's. It really made me see how my husband saw S much differently and how my rejection probably did make him feel very unloved.<p>The A was still wrong---bad way to solve that problem. between reading and counseling...we are doing great in recovery though. We both understand much more about each other now. I am now reading Mars & venus together forever...goes into more differences in thought processing... some is pretty comical but still rings pretty true.<p>knowledge is power I guess. I know some BS have problem with S at all after finding out about A. It actually gave me a big wakeup call and have been intimate since right after d-day. this was hard for my h to understand. He felt very angry at first that I wasnt open before. He also was very leary that it was temporary and done only to keep him there. <p>well, I really hope things work out for you. I hope my ramblings help in some small way. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

bgentle & hope4future-
Thanks for stepping up to the plate and telling your story. OUr S was always great and expressive it was just lacking. I was beginning to feel global warming (if you know what I mean) in Feb/March. Dday was 4/14 and we had our best day of intimacy and SF the Sunday after dday - go figure. I agree with alot of what you both said about your feelings. Our situation is still pretty rocky. We are separated and H is in the deepest fog he's ever been in.
Hugs,
Llama