Sorry about my Spelling!! <p>I am thinking I might continue with a few causal questions - see how honest she will be about bill and all -- she already said she just bought a bra or what ever -- I got a little demonstative and was dancing a jig of sorts a couple times this weekend as I explained that when I ask her questions, she really dancies around with the answers.
Here is other thread I started with the Victory spelling -- I am a basket case at times [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=018294
Perhaps a non disclosure with questions about recent purchases at VS does not qualify as a bold face lie -- perhaps there is some misinterpretation about the time frame with question -- May 15 would not be within time frame -- in her mind -- Does not give me a warm & fuzzy feeling of anything close to policy of openness and honesty. She never embraced this idea. Would this be a LB if I asked her where we stand with the openness & honesty issue?!<p>I have not specifically talked about this in a long time.
Would it be reasonable to expect some simlance of honesty? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Or am I overreacting - some might say cloths purchases do not fall under this cateory of having to be honest?
Peace,
HH
PS -- OK with non-disclosure it as me wondering ... does anyone know what is "inner wear?" That was discription for a purchase<p>[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

Get help for yourself.<p>You can't control her. She has no interest or motivation to change.<p>What are you willing to live with?

Lexxxy
Thanks for your feedback -- I am stuborn aren't I -- you would think I would get the idea after a while, huh?
I guess that is the question -- what is my bottom line, right? I am too chicken I guess -- eventually I will hit bottom & make a stand!
Be honest, would I be asking too much if I made a stand on the bikini thing -- Am I being a real prude or jerk here?
I mean if I'm going to make a stand, I would like to think that it is for a reasonable thing --
How about the nondisclosure -- isn't that a little petty? Don't most Married W fib a little about these things?
Thanks again.
Hope al is well with you!
HH

Normally yes -- these issues would be petty.<p>However, your marriage has a history of infidelty.
Therefore, you have a reason for your insecurities. Unfortunately, your wife is still very selfish and is not willing to give you what you need to recover.<p>And all you have are complaints about how she's refusing to participate and act how you want her to. She doesn't meet your needs. And she doesn't want to. So what are YOU going to do about it?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>BINthereDUNthat
Member
Just letting you know I'm reading and thinking and praying for ya...
It seems like your wife is just dreading getting older and fighting it instead of enjoying it and enjoying the fact that you, her H of all these years is hopelessly devoted and addicted to her. I would give anything for my H to speak of me being a "hot babe" when I turn 50 the way you do about your wife. What a dream!! I think that would be such a blessing. She still seems so very ungrateful to me. She's got it all and doesn't seem to realize it? A hot bod at 50 and a husband who adores her?!? What more does a wife need??? I don't know, maybe I'm just easy to please????
Because it WOULD make such a difference if you KNEW she bought those frilly and sexy clothes to please you and for your eyes only. It WOULD make such a difference to you if you knew that she was going out of her way to please YOU instead of just trying to make herSELF feel better about aging. It WOULD make such a difference if you KNEW that she was interested in pleasing only you and not herSELF through receiving admiration from other men. It WOULD make a difference to you if you truly felt that she wanted you and was interested in your needs and if she really made an effort to affectionize you... *sigh*
Of course, there are always two sides of the story. Hurrian, I wish your wife would come here and post and tell us the whole truth about this relationship. Just kidding you! Hang in there, my friend...
<hr></blockquote><p>BINthere
Thanks so much for your continued support and prayers!<p>I attended my support group meeting last night. The topic was "Sanity" -- very appropiate!
SECRET IS TO DETACH WITH LOVE -- NOT EASY FOR ME RIGHT NOW!<p>My non-trust feelings are exploding a bit. She is up and getting ready sooner than normal. She has her full make-up & hair ready & it is 7:30 -- she typically leaves for work after I leave, which is around 8:00 her 8:30. She will sometimes go in for a tanning session or meet some ladies for breakfast. Perhaps she senses my nontrust feelings? In my best non threating tone I ask her if she is going into work early. She gets extremely defensive and in a strong argumentative tone, replies that, "What does it look like?, I'm making the bed!" She continues, "I go into work anywhere from 7:00 to 10:00" -- I mean she was letting me have it, like I had no right to ask such a question, that I was stupid & should know what her pattern is or something?
I said, is that how it is, you just share info on a need to know basis!" ... "I was just trying to have a little conversation!" She retorts back, "Well, ask me something else!" I walked away and went to work.
Perhaps I mentioned that a week or so back, we were having a heart to heart & she confessed to being verbally & emotionally abusive to me throughout our marriage & she said that she recognised most people would not have put up with that -- would have left.
In this chat, she was condensending about me reading self help books -- said that she is just not interested in sitting around reading this stuff all the time. I told her that she tells me we did not have a good marriage(DAH!) and that if we did not have it figured out before, that we are all of a sudden supposed to get it right now -- without any help?! ... "And according to what ever she wants to do or her methods?!" She had no reply to that.<p>Some patterns are hard to change!<p>Yes, I have more work to do on "me!"<p>Thanks for your support!
Peace,
HH<p>[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

Hmmm... Hurrian, there was a discussion on 180s over on BrambleRose's thread re: the new LoveBuster book... check it out and see what you think, you know, if the 180s would work for YOU in your situation???<p>Of course the (new) 6th Love Buster is "Independent Behavior" and we both know that your DW has been sorta guilty of this for a l-o-n-g time... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

"DETACHING--WITH LOVE" does not mean to quit loving the person, just love them in a different way, right? Love them in a way that protects your feelings? Am I right? Love them in a way that they can't stomp all over you, or if they try to, you're covered!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Explain what the class was about? Sounds interesting...<p>I'm wondering if "detaching with love" means to sort of give the person to God and let God worry about them so you can maintain your sanity???<p>You were saying that distrust is about to cause you to explode... What if you just force yourself to TRUST GOD with your wife, her clothing, her schedule, her life! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I know, it sort of feels like where does that leave you? huh?<p>Well, it leaves you in God's care! I can't think of a better place to be? Seems like you put your feelings in your wife's hands and she is constantly stomping on them. <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> So put your feelings in God's hands where they will be protected.<p>Your wife doesn't owe you anything. Not really. I think you feel as if she owes it to you to make it up to you for what she did wrong by having affairs... Yes, your heart was broken & shattered. Perhaps only God is the one who can put the pieces back together and hold them in place for you. Your wife is clearly incapable (AT THIS POINT) of keeping you fixed... You know what I mean? You keep reaching out to her hoping that she'll soften and it only seems to harden her all the more. It's weird. It's like the nicer you are and the more careful you are, the bigger pinch she takes off of your head! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You can't be walking on eggshells for the rest of this relationship.<p>Did you know that "perfect love" (mature love) casts out all fear?! I would venture to say that your love for your wife is not perfected!!! (only God can complete our level of love for others) What if you opened your heart to allow God's love to flow through you, toward your wife? Do you think that would work?<p>What you have been doing is not working. Sometimes it works but sometimes it doesn't so I agree with Lexxxy, you gotta figure out something different here... Something that works all the time.<p>God's love NEVER fails... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Tell me more about detaching with love???

BINthere,
Thanks again for your devoted attention! – I am like a wounded duck that can’t seem to find my way back to the water. Every time I think I get close, something happens & I start doubting myself. You are an inspiration & much wiser than your age! (remember, I know you are but a youngster!). Thanks for reminding me about my Higher Power, our LORD! For sure, that is one constant we can rely on!!<p>And thanks for being so generous, caring and giving with your time & feedback!– I am so wrapped up in “Me” sometimes that I totally forget that you have your own set of challenges. It does seem that you have a great attitude and do not even see your challenges as a burden, but perhaps even a blessing – Again, thanks for being such a good role model!!<p>I believe you may be familiar with the traditional 12 step recovery program. My support group is modeled after these traditions. In fact ,sometimes we refer to the big “white” book made famous with the AA program in which I believe most all 12 step programs are modeled after, but that Gamblers A or eating disorders and the like.<p>Although I have been going to the F2F meeting for 8 –9 months now, I have jet to really dig into working through the steps as such. I believe you may be politely pointing me in that direction. Thanks!<p>One of the basic concepts is to “give it up to our higher power” – what you are suggesting is right in line with my program. Thanks for the reminder -- I do need to pray more, pray more for me & my DW!<p>I have tried the 180 thing and like you observed, it does seem to work to a point. You are very perceptive – I am too close to see certain things, but I believe when I am more distant and less caring, at times it may cause my DW to wonder & she will pay more attention to being nice & all. I believe she suffers from Narcissistic tendencies & she has some basic fears of being abandon, so when those feeling kick in, she is instinctively starts showing a little more attention to my needs. When I am paying more attention to her, she may feel more secure about me and her “taker” takes over. This may not be directly related, but for years she has told me that she likes me better when I am more distant – that I tend to be “too nice” – you know we have this thing where she does not like for me to be affection, because she can’t return it! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]
I believe that my DW’s boss is somewhat familiar with the 12 step programs, although of late she has asked me for supporting material for her son, who has addiction problems. She is very spiritual and has often talked about going into ministry – she ministers to a lot of people and is very good with spiritual prayer for example. She too has spoken to me about turning it over to our LORD (when I had sent my DW away). She spoke that the only way to work through this is if WE (me & my DW) get very involved with strong spirituality and relationship with our LORD. I believe she has spoke to my DW about this & that my DW believes that “I” need to do this more and that then she does not have any responsibilities for “my” recovery. And you make a good point, I should not hold her responsible for my recovery! Not healthy! You’ll remember that our pastor suggested that we pray together as a couple & that the more we honored our lord the more we honor our marriage. Well, you’ll remember the prayer thing, it lasted three times & then that became a problem – me forcing something on her again. Another LB for me to continue or ask for joint prayer. <p>One of the principles of my support group is that we don’t become obsessed or addicted to our S. That is my illness – making my happiness dependent on her – like you recognize, this is not healthy!! It also states that we cannot ignore this condition (SA) either though. This is the balance I struggle with. For sure, we know we cannot control the other person, only ourselves! And we cannot “cure” the other person, only ourselves! We know the serenity prayer & it’s impact or importance! But it does not hurt to be reminded – thanks! I am obviously not healed yet!<p>I have learned that the people in my group and the people on the website support group; that of those who’s S’s in recovery, with few exception (not an official stat., but definitely more times than not!), are there because the S (me, for example), made it an issue – left alone of course, the addict has no desire to stop – why would they, whatever is there method of escape, even if it’s fantasies, it is their “fix” Makes them feel good, naturally they don’t want to give it up!<p>I am reminded of a story about a person who was about to freeze to death & his friend started hitting him with a stick to get him to move and save himself, otherwise he would just sit there and freeze to death. On one level, I don’t believe I have that much to loose buy pressuring certain issues – I believe that if left to her own devices she is not going to honor me or our marriage & this is not good for me in the long run anyway. I just don’t know what buttons to push or best strategies to force the issues in the right direction. <p>The sanity thing was discussed mostly from the perspective that if we, as the co-dependent, spouse of the addict, become obsessed about catching, tracking down & proving our S’s obsessions & addictive behavior, this is “INSANE” -- trying to control another person! We have to capture our life back! Detaching with love I believe means not trying to control & cure the other person – take responsibility for ourselves, while at the same time not be in a self-pity party & hold “resentment” towards the S – pretty much what MB would promote in plan A. thanks for having me verbalize this, so perhaps I can internalize this. Yes, giving it up to our higher power is a key! -- I have a feeling you knew these things but wanted me to vocalize to see if I internalize them – Thanks! <p> Independent behavior – Yeah that is my DW! You’ll remember my whine last summer with our golf league & how my DW when after the round, my DW settled into a place at the table with guys all around her & when I cam in, how she made no effort to come and sit next to me where there was an empty chair. Afterwards when I asked my best friend if he thought that was a little weird, he said, Normally, not; but for a couple with our history and trying to work on relationship things, yeah, not the best sign.<p>This summer, my DW chooses to join a woman’s league – same course, same night. Tuesday nights. My DW makes it a point we take separate cars (which does not bother me in the least, actually). This Tuesday there is just one other person there for my league & we finish an hour before my DW – I am at bar – it was 85 and humid – I am thirsty & end up having three draft beers in mug, so it is less than three cans of beer- I would say equivalent to maybe two cans of beer! When my DW comes in she comes me at the bar & I forget what actually got it started, but I mention I finished an hour earlier & I got this sense that she did not want me to hang around & I mentioned I had three drinks (why I mention that, I do not know?! To make a point about the heat I believe) – She busts my bricks for three drinks and says I need to go home! Then the other night she is moaning how she does not have many friends & that maybe she should go out with the condo associations “ladies night out” group to meet some new people. I say nothing. She still has this thing with the dog walk – remember last summer I wanted to make the dog walk a couples activity; but she needed this time to herself – I have not suggested a couples thing this summer. And of course my two trips to the pool with her, she was basically confrontational to me & I left both times. She wants to go the bars dancing – I just don’t feel comfortable with that & she moans about that, like we don’t have a social life. We go golfing with one couple and out for dinner & movies with couples. She says she feels disconnected to our adult children because they don’t call very often. At the same time she gets annoyed if I call her during the day – at her work or at home on her days off – dis-connected – I can relate.<p> Now, you know my DW’s history with se*ually acting out. And she has not accepted any responsibility for these past transgressions (as she would tend to describe them! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] ) and she has not taken to any real recovery strategy. Assuming she has not had any physical contact with another guy(s), what do you think? Is she healed from these issues & should I assume that she is over those “acting out” things and is only interested in attention and maybe some innocent flirting kinds of exchanges & that she will not get carried away like she did before? Therefore, I should not worry or continue to try to get her to recognize a potential problem here?? She confesses or admits to bulimia, although she does not admit to it as a problem, for which she needs to seek a solution – you know they have 12 step recovery programs for eating disorders of which I have given her a number for help there. This may be a sign of her “addiction” but what would be wrong if we say that she “may” have a problem with SA and we approach a formal recovery from this – If in fact this is not a problem, would going through such a recovery process be harmful to her?! I believe she fully understands that if she openly admits to this as a problem and seeks recovery, she would have to give up the sexy dress & have more accountability to me – she does not want that – if she can’t give those things up, isn’t that in & of it’s self, an indicative of an obsession – addiction ?? Agree?? <p>****
Here’s a new thing – my way of dressing is a problem with her! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>She has mentioned before that she does not like me in these particular shorts that I love to wear all the time when at home. They are light, gray, cotton material, “Champion” work out kind of shorts – They have an elastic band & a tie string and have pockets on the side (where material is inside the shorts, not outside). They are loose fitting – very comfortable – she has made an issue about these. Last night as we are in warm up stage of love making and I start to pull off these shorts, she comments that she hates them! Not in her nasty, snippy tone, but a firm statement of displeasure. This morning I ask her for clarification on her hatred of these. I tease that it is the shorts and not me, right? She tells me two things: 1) I wear them all the time (which I admit, I do! -- I have nothing else as comfortable, sorry!) 2) they are so baggy! She reinforced the fact that I asked – I tell her I am not upset – I tease some more. Trying to be light hearted here – she is not buying it though. I say you want me to wear a speedo kind of thing – she gets upset and tells me that I know she has never liked that kind of thing on me – she says I never try cloths on to see how they look on me. I tell her, no, because typically she buys things for me – she says because I never want to go shopping (in fact, I believe she bought these for me). I say, “I suppose this is a charter flaw of mine (to not have big desire to shop!)” I did get a chuckle form her on that one! Blah, blah – not a serious blow out actually! Just another lively discussion.<p>I know in the cold months of the year, she prefers I do not wear shorts inside the house. Of course, I do not wear shorts around the house in the winter and she has gotten me long warm up things to wear. But this is summer & I don’t feel like wearing jeans when I am hangin around the house (She prefers the tight jeans look a lot and so therefore I many times wear that when we go out) When she gets in these, “let’s dress Bob modes,” I have said that I don’t mind & that I would not want to purposely wear things that would upset her & I want to make her happy; but that could we not practice the reverse of that some. She dress some according to my desires -- Of course that is when that conversation gets real short & she gets real defensive & says I can wear what ever I want! – Or, she has said that a lot of woman dress their man, which I understand & agree is not a problem – I am not a fashion king – but of course I have no rights to voice any preference I have for the way she dresses?! I just don’t know fashion she says! I do know that I see plenty of 50 year old women that are attractive & to me at least look stylish, but do not have this close to a wanna be “Brittany Speer” (she does not have mid-drift openly showing, so it’s not exactly, but close!) look I see the 20 year olds wear. <p>I know I drive everyone crazy with this “dress” issue, but if anyone can think of some logic or dialogue I could use here I am all ears. I mean she wears these scant, tank tops with string straps because they are “cool,” Yet I am to be dressed at all times as if I am walking out of the catalogue for sporty causal or something. ?? I wear tank tops with these shorts. I don’t think the tank top goes with the more formal shorts. ?? She prefers the T-shirt look. I know I need a make over, but I want to show some independence here at the same time! I need your help ladies. <p>I guess I forget about my whishes for her way of dress & I look for ways I can please her. Somehow this does not seem right? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] Should I not have a point of negotiation here? <p>Any suggestions for alternative summer, casual, lounging wear for me? I have a couple shorts she likes, but they just seem a little heavy or formal for lounging. Also, after her issue with this, for me to go with the different look, I feel like a sap – she dictates all the terms – like she is the queen bee and everything is for her majesty’s rein here. I need to have some sense of balance here. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Peace!
HH<p>[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

HH, you crack me UP!
Your posts look as if you must type 100 wpm!!! OMIGOSH! But hey, that's what this place is for...<p>QUESTION: Does your W ever complain about how much time you spend on the computer??? Just curious... <p>No, I was not aware of "detaching with love" before but just wondered if I was on the right track... [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I do remember the SA problem, but ??? If you guys are still up to 7 x's a day and you are still popping the HGW to keep up, and she still has her toy stashed, I would say that yes, there is still a potential issue there! Never give the temptor credit for giving up on what he does. He's relentless but so is God and God is bigger. Keep the faith! If your wife is healed, now it is up to her to stay healed by making right choices--something over which you have no control.<p>Even if she refused to give up the sexy dress and be more accountable--would you want mere behavior modification or a REAL change of heart? I believe if the love is restored, she will want to please you from her heart, not because she is told to or expected to. Ya know?<p>As far as bulimia, wow. I don't know what to say except that she can really do a bad number on her gut because of the enzymes from vomitting... I think it messes up the teeth as well. That sounds like a dangerous thing to mess with. I can't relate to that--I love food and eating way too much! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>One thing I CAN relate to, is your big, baggy, comfy lounge shorts! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] So let me understand this, she doesn't like you wearing them around the house?????? Hmmm... I have an idea? What if this is an area where YOU could give in and see it as sowing a seed? (For your harvest of her being willing to submit to you in the area of clothing)??? You never know? Seed...Time...Harvest! <p>Maybe if you let her toss something of yours that she hates (e.g., your gray shorts), you could toss something of hers that YOU hate! (one of her bikinis or push-up bras or skimpy tops)! HEY! There ya go! MB negotiations and she wouldn't even know it hit her!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] (kidding--we both know she would never go for that...that stuff was way too expensive & brand new!! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ) Hang in there, and take care of YOU! Have a good weekend!!!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
<strong>HH, you crack me UP!<p>QUESTION: Does your W ever complain about how much time you spend on the computer??? Just curious... <hr></blockquote>
yes! it is part of my sickness -- obsessing!<p>
... Never give the temptor credit for giving up on what he does. He's relentless but so is God and God is bigger. Keep the faith! If your wife is healed, now it is up to her to stay healed by making right choices--something over which you have no control.<p>... I believe if the love is restored, she will want to please you from her heart, not because she is told to or expected to. Ya know?<p>... Hang in there, and take care of YOU! Have a good weekend!!!</strong>[/QUOTE]<p>BINthere
Thanks again -- you are so wonderfully wise & have a heart of gold! The restoring the love part is so insightful -- obvious I suppose, but it seems so distant.
On the emotional needs board you will note a post about Narsissum -- I am afriad my DW is a poster child for this - which may be at the root of all of this ??
update <p>I am giving up the shorts -- last night wore a more formal (but still very casual) pair of shorts she picked out for me last summer.<p> - I suprized her at work - she was wearing one of her tight tank tops with string straps. When she left the house, she had a short sleeve blouse on top. At the store she was just in the tank top -- retail gift, home decoration store in a mall. Not a causal corner, beach wear outlet or anything cloes to it. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] I said nothing - she complained how hot it was. She does the displays and bends over a lot to fix up things - quite the cleavage to be sure! <p>Anyway, we went to a movie & she was very fun-loving and pleasant - made me feel good about her - I tried to give her a smootch and she would not have anything to do with that. We went home and I grilled steaks and she fixed triming - had some wine - very nice!
A bit later we were intimate - in a way -Very Physical, intercourse and all, but still she did not allow me to kiss her <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" />
I declined SE* a second time later in the night though, but we were intimate again this morning --Even after I was ready for work & very fresh, still no Kissing! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] BTW, I have backed off the two a day's - being the control person that she is, she has for the most part tried to get an upper hand on that by turning me away on occasions when I have intiaited. She is trying to make a point to me I believe that she does not always lust! And that she is the one that controls when we are intimate - not me!<p>Anyway, hope all is well with everyone!
Peace,
HH

Hello HH<p>I get a kick out of your posts. You seem like a good guy but totally co-dependent on your wife who is amasingly selfish and self-centered. I just have to response about her letting you have sex with her but refusing to let you kiss her. You realize of course this is the behavior of what a prostitute does. They like to be in control and the message is that they will not accept intimacy and they are using the client for money only. I have no idea why you would wish to make love to your wife who refuses to let you kiss her. This is not lovemaking. Like I said you seem like a good guy but you also sound like a man who has been mentally castrated by your wife and is hopelessly dependent upon her for your self-worth and esteem. What a shame.

I started kissing my H a lot less (almost non-existant really) during sex when I was involved in my A. I was still having sex with him, but I was more "distant" during.

mmm Hmmm! You're busted! We're going to have to wean you from the computer so you can get more kisses... maybe?<p>I think she was punishing you for dropping in on her at work unannounced... She knows what you were up to by now... It sort of reminds me of a teenie bopper who leaves the house without any make-up on but piles it on once she gets to school... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You got rid of the shorts but did she know you did it for her? What was your payoff? It sounds like you caved again and got nothing in return!!! Maybe we need to get some of Harley's articles on negotiating linked in here! You keep letting yourself get the short end of the stick! You're going to have to NEGOTIATE your kisses in somehow?!? Ya think???? Keep trying! Don't give up! She needs you or she would have left by now. Use your leverage!!!!!!!! [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks so much for everyone’s replies, interest and concerns! Everything brought up I believe are valid points & I appreciate the feedback a lot! It validates a lot of my thoughts and feelings & that is very comforting in a way.<p>The non-kissing thing has been a somewhat constant thing throughout our relationship. Yes, as I sit back and look at our relationship, I have become the one that always bends – the perfect little co-dependent if you will! This is my sickness. I have to be concerned that I don’t get obsessed with my DW’s issues. But on the other hand, I feel compelled to try & understand her, so as to try & determine better what are my issues – do I deserve this treatment and what can I do, versus what is completely out of my control.<p>The more I read about narcissism for example, the more I believe this is an issue with her and that it not my fault or perhaps it is not so much what I have done, although I am sure the way I act & interact with her has been an “enabler” for her to continue her ways towards me. This dynamic is what I sense I need to continue to analyze.<p>Some Drama last night. We had a blow up last night that was started when I questioned her about whether we needed this decorative clock she brought home from her work. She gets rather irate and goes into a small rage -- she did not hit me as she has done on occasion (always on the arm or chest) and as I think about it, she was actually more in control than many times before. I get loud and attacking in my come back - not pretty. <p>She said I have always debated her on everything she gets for the house. She challenged me that if it were up to me we would not change any home decoration and it would be like my Mother's home - no big change in 30 years --this is what set me off -- I told her it was not fair to bring that up every time we have this discussion & that if we have had a debate, I never win, cause she gets whatever she wants!<p>She took down about 6 or 8 pictures from our living room, bathroom & bedroom & rolled up a rug she got a few weeks ago and packed them into her car -- all from her work. I asked her what she is doing. She said she is taking them back because they were all done w/o consulting me. I tell her that I think she is doing this to make a big point that I am being too controlling and to actually try to manipulate me, to try & make it so I never say another word about her spending. I told her I said nothing about these items & my point was not that we have bare walls.<p>She made a point that we can just look at the check book to see who spends what -I spend a lot & does not know everything that I spend money on. I ask her how she pays for all the home decoration items -- she said that she has an account of sorts at work --list of items taken home & that eventually her boss will ask her to pay for these --Then they take so much out of her pay check until items are paid for. I knew this. But I said, so we do have to pay for these things, right? She had paid for the new plates a few weeks ago (She tells me $150). I ask her how much this account is up to now. She said she did not know - around $180. She spent $88 on her Victoria Secret Account a couple weeks ago. Now these are not large sums of money & I don’t really care, except that she totally busted my bricks when I get an extra $10 or $20 when I get my lunch at the grocery – I use this for food & drink after golf or for when Cin & I go out to get a bit – she said we have not been out much of late – and I don’t keep track, but on the other hand, she will freely admit that she seldom cooks anymore, so we do go out – it is not every night though. <p>She got into her "poor me" mood. I told her that I felt sorry for her in a way because I don't think she really likes me & that I am not making enough money to provide all the "things" that she wants -- Like I don't know what she can do --But I know that I am not just going to continue to roll over & do everything according to her perspectives -- this obviously creates a lot of stress for her. I am trying to be strong in setting some standards that if we're going to have a relationship, I want it based more on mutual feelings & not just on what I can do for her -- financially - Se*ually. I did not say these things, just my thoughts.<p>This whole thing is bad because, she got me new shorts, (which double as swim wear), and tee shirt for Father's day. I was truly trying to be diplomatic & non-threatening in suggesting that I did not see where we had room for the clock. When I asked how much it cost, she answered that nothing yet, because she did not know if she was keeping it - this has become a standard kind of answer - it is rare she does not keep what she brings home. She did eventually become calm and sad and admitted that she losses control with these things & that she should not work where she does -- just too tempting.<p>Her first Counselor mad a big deal about what she admitted to as her “acting.” In public she can portray a person who is very happy & fun-loving & charming. She can also have to forlorn, poor me way as well. She’ll use the latter when she is soliciting sympathy & comfort from others. I have seen this or the results of this later mode when she sees our pastor – (some interesting history there!) She decided because of some health issues to not go on that mission trip with the high school kids this summer. A couple weeks ago in church, between services I see her in this poor me look & Pastor offers a consoling hug. Yesterday, as we file past pastor, he asks in her in this very concerned "consoling" manner if she is OK? With me, HI, How are you?! Again, it is like she is a victim here? I felt like he almost asking if they should visit. I mention this because she has this church committee meeting (in which he invited her to be a part of last summer) tonight where the pastor will likely be present & I have this hunch there will be an opportunity for her to express her misery & for him to follow this consoling role to her & they set up one of these special meetings. Yes, I have a trigger that goes back to events of last summer where she had a couple meeting with him, I believe basically about me. And he has openly admits he is not a counselor. She has not been particularly spiritual. She does not read the bible and totally rejected his idea of couples prayer.
Thanks for your continued patience with my lengthy vents or rambling!
Peace be with you,
HH<p>[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

Update on Bed Spread Protection Plan – You’ll remember my vent of a while back about how my DW busted my bricks for lounging on the bed – I had explained that this was not a new complaint of hers to me. She had said in the past that we need to preserve the cover as they are expensive – we re-cycle long before any wear! Now there is a new reason for the rule –
Yesterday morning she asked if I would make the bed, that she gets tired of it. I do not comply (sorry, probably a LB, but remember I am working on modifying my typical “Asking to be a Doormat” style! [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] Anyway, I have helped her in the past, but yesterday I was not in the mood!
Later, she is resting, napping on freshly made bed. A bit later we are in the car going to a graduation party & I ask her for the bed spread rule. I said I noticed she was lying on bed & wondered why it was Ok for her & not me? I knew this would start a rumble, cause it is like I am questioning her “Authority” -- Well I got some battle attack kind of reasoning:<p>&#61669; She straightens up afterwards, I don’t
&#61669; Emphatic reason was that she makes the bed! If I make the bed, then I can lay on it! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>How can I argue that? You know that she is the queen & makes the rules -- I am but a mere servant to her needs. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>As expected, she got quite defensive & when I tried to reason this as perhaps not fair, she said, “Do you want to just fight all the way!” I of course drop it!<p>Again, I am not good in the battle with come backs – Negations -- I am trying to learn. Any suggestions. I believe she may get my point, but she is sure not going to confirm it!
Peace,
HH