I'm an oldie. I've been here since fall of 1998....yeah, a long time, although I have mostly just lurked the past couple of years. I started out as "Still Kickin'" and changed to "Sweetpea", and am now Lady Clueless.<p>Four years ago this spring, I realized that our marriage had deteriorated to the point where we were living separate lives. H was highly critical of any and everything I did, and even acted, at times, as if he hated me. I realized that if I wanted a better marriage, a good marriage, I would have to change myself and my treatment of my H. So, without knowing anything about Plan A, I set out to improve myself and become a better wife.<p>After a few months of this and with no change in my H's attitude toward me, it finally dawned on me that he might be in love with someone else.<p>I spent a couple of months agonizing over this; and, when he finally told me that I looked like hell (despite the makeover and hair-fixing and makeup every day), I asked him if he was in love with someone else. His response was to ask me a question: "Now why in the world would you think a thing like that? I thought we had a better relationship than that." I tried to explain why I thought that, and he quickly became angry, telling me that "Well, now I've been accused, so I guess I'll go out and $#%& somebody." We were at our business, so I finally left and went home. He came home and asked me what he could do to help (I was doing some home improvement stuff). I told him that I just wanted him to hold me, and he did.<p>Then I found MB. About the same time, I finally realized who the OW was, as he was constantly flirting and focusing his attention on her when we went out. I do believe that he had stopped anything physical (if it was a PA) by then, but he refused to stop going to her business up until last year, when he got mad at her about something.<p>He refused to stop going there, even though I walked out on him 2 years ago after I caught him up there yet again. When I called to let him know that I was OK, he finally admitted to cheating on me one time 13 years previously. I already knew he had, since he gifted me with the STD he got from the county sleep-with-anything-in-pants gal. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] Of course, over the years, any time I brought the STD up, it was always "You're crazy" or "You must be the one "s****ing around.: [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyway, I don't want to write a novel here, so I'll try to keep this short as possible.<p>Since that time, things have improved. Our sex life has gone from his not being able to finish if he could even start to where he generally tries to make sure I'm satisfied, although I'm still not thrilled about the romance part of it. I would like him to do something besides just go to bed and reach for me when I get into bed. Sorta makes me feel like I could turn all the lights out, send someone else in there, and he wouldn't even know the difference, KWIM?<p>Especially since he stopped going around Cafe Woman, he has grown more and more affectionate and loving toward me. We get along well, although I do feel that I keep my lips zipped too much to avoid LBing. Expressing any of my needs that he doesn't want to meet appears to be a LB if I keep talking about it. And, of course, if he only does things to meet my needs in order to shut me up, it wouldn't really meet my needs. After all, I WANT and need him to WANT to joyfully meet my needs. Does that make sense?<p>One of my most pressing needs is that I want him to plan a romantic proposal and remarry me, as I do not feel as though we are really, truly married anymore. I feel like we're just shacking up. Yes, I have told him several times that I need this from him. The last time I mentioned it was a couple of months ago. He was talking about which funeral home to use when he dies. He made the remark that I could just stick him inside anything and put him in the ground without a funeral if I wanted. I told him, "Well, I want to be buried in my wedding dress."<p>He said, "I thought it didn't fit anymore."<p>I repled, "Not that one...my new one."<p>"What new one? Who are you planning to marry?" he asked.<p>I told him, "The new one I'm fixing to buy as soon as I find the right one, and the first guy who comes along and wants to marry me."<p>"Hmmm..." And that was the end of that.<p>Now, our anniversary is coming up, and I've been upset and depressed about it for the last two weeks.<p>For the last two years, he has insisted on making a point of "celebrating" it (despite not giving a hoot about it in years) after I told him that I never wanted to celebrate it again. Two years ago, we had a fight about my not wanting to celebrate it when we were on a vacation trip (which I found out from his conversation with strangers was supposed to be a 2nd honeymoon). Last year, I reluctantly agreed to go out to eat and a movie. Got to the movie too late, so we came home. He ended up having a really good time, but only because I got drunk (only way I could get through the night).<p>Last week, he was telling a new friend that we had our anniversary coming up and looked at me and asked, "32nd, right?" I was taken by surprise and just sort of muttered that "Yes, I became your wife 32 years ago." I guess he noticed the look on my face, because he told the friend, "Well, we don't really do anniversaries anymore." I sat there a few minutes, then told him, "See you later" and went on home.<p>Our D is having oral surgery on the day of our anniversary, and I'll have to go with her. The thing is: I do not even want to spend any time with him on that day. I do not want to feel forced to celebrate something that he doesn't even think was wonderful enough to do again. Truth be told, our wedding night (I was a virgin) was not terrific for me. I want a new wedding night...one where my H tells me how beautiful I am in my sexy negligee instead of telling me to get that damn gown off. <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> <p>Am I crazy or abnormal for not getting over my disappointment over my H's refusal to renew our vows? And, yes, I HAVE told him that I need this from him. The 2 times he asked me in the last couple of years were when we were fussing, which don't count as romantic proposals.<p>Another thing: I read a quote that went something like this:<p>"Just because someone doesn't love you the way you want doesn't mean they don't love you with all the love they have."<p>Well, I've been thinking that maybe my H loves me with all the love he has. Does that mean that I may never have the love I want?<p>I don't know what to do!!

Lady Clueless ,<p>Hello Lady. Since you have been lurking here for a while, you probably know all about the MB principals and lingo. Unfortunately, I have a difficulty offering any advice without knowing more information. I would like to ask the following questions and assume some of them <<Assumption>>:<p>Is he willing to go to MC? <<NO>>
Has he admitted to the EA? <<NO>>
Has he read any of the MB principal books? <<NO>>
Have you tried communicating to him your feelings that you are describing here? <<NO>>
Is he still having an affair? <<NO>>
Does he know about your feelings about sex and affection? <<NO>><p>IMHO:
Given these assumptions, I must say your marriage main problem is communication. I believe you are terrified of his reaction when you try to tell him how you feel, and I believe he is very defensive about any negative comment mainly because he may have a low self esteem. It is very difficult, therefore, to discuss anything with him that may appear like a critisism about who he is. As a result (as in most marriages), you have given up trying to tell him how you feel. If you begin to tell him now all these things you have been harboring inside, he will likely lash out and will withdrawl from you very quickly.<p>It is a Catch 22, your marriage will suffer if you tell him your feelings and you will suffer if you do not. I can say that you can bring the things up that bother you very slowly and carefully to him and it is possible to have a slow recovery of passion you seek in your marriage. However, this is extremely difficult and very very time consuming. The quickest way is to have a moderator, MC, to assist in discovery of the things that are bothering you both. It is likely he too has some needs that are not being met. Have you tried the EN questionare with him?<p>About the re-marriage, no offense, I think that you are trying to obtain appoval or fullfillment of your needs or validation of his love for you with this request. Quoting the marriage vows in public and a ceremony mean nothing for a marriage. All of the commitment comes from the heart. <p>I can understand your pain because my wife is currently having a PA/EA with OM for over a year now. She shared this jewel with me three months ago. She has no desire to end the affair with the OM. I went through the same feelings. I said we can not possibly be married because she broke the wedding vows. What I have realized over the last three months is that we all break the marriage vows. They are in fact impossible to keep. That is the esense of a good vow because it forces us to see how imperfect we all are and how we must rely on God to love as he demonstrated and continues to demonstrate his love for us.<p>My wife has not left me and even though she will not admit it, she is comitted to me. I feel that this is true because even though she continues to hurt and wrong me on a daily basis, I see through to her heart. I see that she in fact cares. She even will say she loves me deeply in return. When I realized this, I knew it would not be necessary for her to validate her love or re-commit to me in a marriage serimony. I know that she loves because she is with me and she cares for me. That is all the validation I need, even though she is still cheating.<p>I have gained this strength through looking to God for him to help me love. I can tell you one thing for sure, I do not always feel this way. Sometimes I am weak and I post here often about my wanting to give it all up. Once I turn this over to God and understand his love and his suffering that he indured for us, I begin to see the grand scheme of life. <p>Forgive your husband for his past mistakes and forgive him for his future mistakes. We all will continue to hurt each other in some way or another, but since we deeply love our spouses, we can stay together and committed.<p>Maybe this is all a little too romatic view about love, but it is also part of the equation about love just like the "Love Bank" is a good understanding of the demonstrative nature of love.<p>I hope you feel better, and I hope there is more instructive opinions than mine. I just thought I might share with you what currently touched my heart about the pain you have now. Please keep posting here. There are many good and hurting people just like yourself and many success stories.

Just a thought - no one can read our minds. Why not tell him what you want OR propose to him and tell him you want to renew vows with a whole new wedding.<p>I used to get upset because my H never seemed to know what I wanted. Someone said to me "you have to tell him what you want and need. He can't read your mind." Guess what - it works!

Hey! I remember you--and I have often wondered what happened to you! I haven't heard from you for a long time. Changed your name, huh? <p>You have really hung in there and endured--he has a lot to love you for. I know how hard it is not to be bitter and how hard it is to keep one's mouth shut just to keep peace (otherwise known as "not LB'ing.) I know how hard it is to live with evasivenss and half-truths (when your gut knows that there is more to tell, but your mind knows that you will never hear it.)<p>I know about the anniversary thing, too. I picked my husband up from the airport from his business trip to Korea, and he gets into the car and says "Well, let's go out to eat. As you know, it's our anniversary." I said "Really? Oh, yeah." And he said "Boy, if I had forgotten, you would have ripped me to shreds!" (As if. . .whatever.) You know, it's like a total mockery, celebrating our anniversary. The last three prior to this were horrible. The one in 1999, he spent with his OW. Why would I care to remember it?<p>Like you, I wanted a re-marriage with a new anniversary to celebrate. My husband is like "big deal." You know, according to him, the only problems we have to solve are mine and the only history we have to erase are the memories of my crying and causing trouble (wonder why?) so why get married again.<p>Hey, I am glad you are still around. You should stick with it--and know that you are not alone. It should make you feel better to know that you are not. Take care.

Though we usually want your spouses to give us what we want, especially when we ask outright, this is often not the case. You want him to do something for you .. recommit. He wants you to have some enthusiasm about anniversaries. Why cannot you both have what you want? <p>Do you want to redo your vows in a ceremony with guests or do you want to do something private? <p>I like the idea of you proposing. Plan a really great wedding.. elope, then on to a private, very romantic dinner for two in a private dinning room or a hotel suite, and a weekend get away.<p>Though we have only been married for two years, we have two different wedding days. We ran off the to JP 6/6/00. My best friend and youngest brother were the only people there and the only ones we told. (Of course they blabbed it to everyone.) We did this so that I could cover him and his kids with health insurance, to ease building our home, etc. The idea was to have a ‘real wedding’ once we had our act together. Well it turned out that our act was not together until the spring of 2001. So we had a formal wedding on 3/18/01. <p>But then d-day hit on 3/22/01… 4 days after our formal wedding. In searching for all his OW’en I found that the weekend after our 6/6/00 wedding he had a weekend date with some bimbo he met on the internet. He was able to pull it off because he returned to MD to pack his house and move out here to NM. The bimbo told me that it did not mean anything to her. Seems it did not mean anything to him either. The way I see it they both went on my honeymoon and it did not mean anything to anyone but me. As you can imagine both of our wedding anniversaries are very emotionally loaded. In March of this year I was a basket case. And again I’ve been having a hard time since last week… our real 2nd anniversary. I tried very hard to forget that it was last week, but he remembered the next day. So he insisted on a celebration… we kept it low key.<p>I too have asked him to renew our vows. I’ll buy a wedding dress and all. We are planning to ‘elope’ to Las Vegas, redo our vows and even get a Nevada marriage license. Just do the entire thing. Since we are planning a long, wild weekend together, and this is just part of it, he’s game. I know that if I wanted to do a wedding with family and friends he would not go for it. I just need to pick a date… don’t know what would be the best date. And I feel a little bit afraid to pick a date; three’s a charm you know. What the hey am I going to discover about the third date?<p>Guess this is my long-winded way of saying maybe if you make it part of something fun and exciting he will be more likely to participate.

Hi, Dreamland,
Thanks for responding so quickly.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Is he willing to go to MC? <<NO>>
Your assumption is right. He went only one time, but said I only wanted to humiliate him by telling the counselor that he had cheated.<p>Has he admitted to the EA? <<NO>>
Right again. He only admitted to the PA that he lied about for 13 years. I also suspect that there were at least 2 or 3 other affairs, including one that MAY have produced a child (who is now deceased).<p>Has he read any of the MB principal books? <<NO>>Right again. I HAVE ordered "His Needs, Her Needs" on tape, although I doubt if he'll listen to them. He pooh-poohs the notion of anyone else being able to help us sort out our problems.<p>Have you tried communicating to him your feelings that you are describing here? <<NO>>
I have told him that I need for him to be more romantic....telling him that I would love for him to seduce me rather than just wait until I get into bed to reach for me or waking me up by starting foreplay (and I'm not talking about kissing me or whispering sweet nothings to me. I mean "getting down to business", so to speak.) I have also told him several times that I would like for us to renew our vows. His first response to the idea keeps ringing in my ears. He sneered and said, "Sheeeee*****!" <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> I told him 3 years ago that I no longer want to celebrate our anniversary, after we went to the casinos (did not get flowers, card, or anything else), and after we got there, found out that he had invited another couple. Before the other couple got there, he gave me some money and told me to play the slots because he wanted to wander around alone. His response to my telling him that I was done with celebrating our anniversary was to attempt to force me to celebrate it. Gee, it never meant much to him before...why all of a sudden did it mean anything only after it ceased meaning anything other than heartbreak to me?<p>I haven't told him of my latest feelings, which are doozies. At this point, I am starting to feel that I would like to be free so that I can go out and meet someone else. Realistically, though, I think I would find it really hard to do, as we live in a small town. I've even played around with the notion of just getting a divorce and keeping our financial affairs as they are in a partnership, staying in the same house, but with no SF, as I really feel I have to be legally married for that. I have to admit that the last idea is mostly so that, if he REALLY wants to be married to me, he'd HAVE to remarry me. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] See? I'm really getting nutty, here! <p>Is he still having an affair? <<NO>>
I still think he would be if he could. I think he just wanted to "cool it" until things settled down at home. I also think that Cafe Woman got POd about being put on the back burner. At any rate, she got a new BF, kept him a year, and now she is married to another guy. I think that she may have decided that she was not going to get back into anything with H; however, H flat-out REFUSED to end contact with her until about a year ago.<p>Also, I set H up a couple of years ago for his birthday. I hired a stripper for his party, and had her slip a note with "her" phone number inviting him for a private dance. The truth is--the phone number was a cellphone that I bought just for the purpose. H never did call the number, but he toted that note around in his wallet for a month or two. BTW, we had a fight last year about his going to bars and beer joints without me, and I confronted him about having thta note in his wallet. He lied and said that he threw it away as soon as he saw what it was. He never did respond to my question of why did I find it in his wallet. BTW, I also haven't been honest with him about this. Some day, I will, but not right now. Also, I suspect that the reason I caught him out at the bar at 1:30 a.m. (law requires no liquor served after midnight)was because he had the hots for the young female bartender. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Does he know about your feelings about sex and affection? <<NO>>
Yes, he does. I've told him several times, as described above. His attitude is that if he doesn't want to do it, I need to get over it. He once told me, "Well, that's just the way I am, so deal with it." My response was, "Well, THIS is the way I am, so why can't you deal with it? Why am I supposed to change how I am and you're not?" I'm still waiting for an answer.
<hr></blockquote><p>I've already forgiven my H for the STD affair, and I've told him that I can and will forgive any others if and when he tells me the whole truth.<p>I AM having trouble, though, with forgiving him for the past emotional and verbal abuse. For one thing, he refuses to admit to any of it, even though our own son has told him how awful he has talked to me over the years. <p>Part of me is angry with myself...for putting up with the crap over the years. There were a lot of little annoyances (things he did or didn't do at home) that I never made issues of, because I always figured, "Well, everybody's human...and I guess there are things I do or don't do that he's not too thrilled about, either." Well, while I was putting some annoyances aside as being petty and not worth fussing about, he was busy telling me over and over what my faults were...in a very ugly way. <p>I had a wise Sunday School teacher who once said that emotional and verbal abuse were as bad, if not worse, than physical abuse, because being emotionally and verbally abusive was like murdering someone's soul. I guess I feel like my soul was very badly damaged, and was saved from death only by the grace of God.<p>I've thought quite a bit about WHY I'm so fixated on renewing our vows. I feel that we both have broken our vows, although I never let someone else put us asunder. I need his promise, before God and everyone who knew he was cheating, that he will cherish me and will never again let anyone come between us again. I need to promise him that I will never stop honoring and cherishing him again.<p>I need to know that my H would marry me all over again!

Hi, Tiny Dancer,
I HAVE told him what I want. He doesn't want it. <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> <p> I have thought about proposing to him, but that wouldn't meet my needs, either. I NEED for him to do it. Come to think of it, I guess my telling him that I wanted us to renew our vows WAS sort of a proposal, and he said, "NO." Now, I'm really boo-hooing.<p> Seriously, I guess I'm afraid to propose to him because if he says "No" again, I'll probably end up divorcing him. I'm pretty close to that right now, even though he is being so much better to me than he has been in a very long time....I'm talking about for better than 25 years!

Hi, Bernzini,
Yeah, I've lurked, but not posted as much as I should. Usually, there's someone pretty close by (either kids, grandkids, or H), and I can't post much without bawling, so I just don't post.
You seem to know exactly how I feel. I guess four years of dealing with this has worn my giver down. Oh, I've changed myself a LOT! I'm much more careful of my tone of voice when speaking, choose my words with care (especially when I'm not pleased about something), managed to quit rolling my eyes when H says something outrageous (one of his big complaints), and it's gotten to where it's my habitual demeanor. I guess I've learned an awful lot about self-control!
I'm hanging in there for the moment! I guess that something has got to give around here, though...and soon. I just need to figure out what to say and how and when to say it without doing a LB.<p> I've often thought I'd like to take a 2X4 to your H! I do have to say that my H doesn't seem to be quite so....heck, I don't know the word for it....as your H, but I guess that could be a matter of opinion, huh?<p> Take care...and how's that big boy of yours, anyhow?<p>[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: Lady Clueless ]</p>

Hi, Zorweb,
Thanks for the ideas, but not sure if I can change what my heart wants.<p> H apparentlydoesn't want to get remarried, period. We went on a 2 week vacation from the deep South through the New England States and bac down the eastern seaboard last fall. I mentioned that I had heard of a couple who got married in every state they visited, and suggested that it might be fun to get married in one of the states we visited. No dice. The only reason we went on this trip alone was because I put my foot down and said I was NOT sharing our camper with another couple for 2 weeks! We did have a nice time. We even stopped and spent a couple of days with my old boyfriend and his wife. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p> I do want him to make the effort to plan a romantic evening out, topped by a romantic marriage proposal. What I got the first time was, "Let's get married in the spring." while trying to make it home before my curfew. Also, although we had an inexpensive, but nice church wedding, the wedding night was not at all romantic. Quite frankly, I felt like a prostitute being paid by the hour and he was gonna get his money's worth. I was actually physically unable to have sex for the rest of the honeymoon! No joke. A straight pin couldn't have gotten in! [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My H is a party guy. A romantic get-away would not appeal to him.<p>What I would like to do is have a small, nice wedding, maybe in our yard, with our D as Maid of Honor, our son as Best Man, and our grandsons as ushers and ringbearer and our granddaughter as flower girl. I would like to have our families and friends there. I would like to have a BBQ reception, and after my mother and our more religious relatives go home, break out the kegs of beer and party down. This is the kind of thing my H would enjoy, rather than a weekend getaway. This is what would satisfy me, and is much more modest than what I originally had planned.<p>What did I originally have planned? Well, I was planning a really BIG wedding at the Garden Club's antebellum mansion, complete with fancy catered reception and a limo to whisk us off to a romantic and expensive hotel. I was gonna invite anybody and everybody, including---no, ESPECIALLY Cafe Woman. At that time, along with my need for recommittment, I also wanted any other boinkees to understand that H was going to STAY married to me. I think I've gotten past that stage, though!<p>I kind of would like a new wedding date, but I could go along with renewing our vows on our anniversary date. Won't happen this year, as the date is almost upon us, unless we choose another date. That is, if H ever decides that he loves me enough to marry me again!<p>I will have to say this for H. He TRIES to make up for my disappointment in his non-proposal by being more attentive and affectionate, but it just isn't cutting it.<p>I know what you mean about them going on your honeymoon but it didn't mean anything to anyone but you.<p>When I asked H if he went to pay his respects when the STDTramp died (her brother is a casual friend), he said, "You don't understand. She meant nothing." I told him, as calmly as I could, "I thought you might have gone to the funeral home visitation because she was T's sister. She didn't mean anything to you, but boinking her for 5 minutes meant enough that you forgot all about me. That makes me feel like less than nothing." <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> <p>I've just about decided to ask my H if he's ever going to propose marriage to me. If he says, "Yes", I will let him know AGAIN th type of proposal I'd like to have. At some point in my life, I'd like to have my original dream about my wedding proposal come true.<p>Thanks for all the help. I've a lot more heavy thinking to do.

Big boy? Which one? I have one that's 38 and one that's 7. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p> The little one is apparently a clone of the big one. This afternoon, he came home from school all sulky and sad. I managed to get from him that the teacher "corrected" him during the course of the day, but that's about it. I poked and pried, trying to get him to confide in me, not to bug him, but to comfort him. He totally resisted. (I didn't get a note, so it must not be anything TOO bad.) See, they are just alike. It must be a male thing.<p>Anyways, my little monster is just fine. He lost one of his front teeth last night--he looks like a prizefighter. My baby is growing up.<p>Well, anyways, about you. . .<p>Why should you be feeling bad about putting up with his crap, as you said, for all those years? I commend you. It proves that you are a patient and loving wife, and he knows it. . .you are a comfort zone for him. A comfort zone who's line he decided to cross at some point. And that's not on you, it's on him.<p>I'm not a comfort zone for my husband anymore, and he knows it. If he treats me with respect, he will get respect. If he gives me crap, I try to be the bigger person and give him. . .not even a sideways glance. . .until he is ready to act his age. <p>As you see, I am pretty much no help Marriage Builder-Wise. I have one of those husbands that isn't into negotiation or even communication. He won't touch anything that said Marriage Builders with a ten foot pole. But I still want to hold onto him. I think that you are kinda in the same boat. Yeah, it hurts sometimes, and is frustrating, but you can do it. I know you love him and want to hold onto your husband, too.<p>Zorweb had a good idea about you proposing--why not? Go to the supermarket and pick up one of those silly Bride magazines and start looking at wedding dresses. It might get you in the mood to go through with it.<p>The backyard wedding sounds fantastic, with your kids as attendants--the BBQ, the keg, everything!! Don't tell me that your husband wouldn't go for that. It's just casual enough that you can put it together relatively quickly, and formal enough to be meaningful. And it sounds really festive and fun. Something that you can spend the summer putting together.<p>If your husband isn't Monsieur Suave Debonair (I had an old boyfriend that said "Swa-vy De-[censored]) don't force him into that silly role. Do you want to be married to Pepe Le Peu or the strong handsome guy that you have called your hubby all those years? Some guys just aint "romantic" and are just plain sheepish when they try. (My husband picked up a guitar and started singing to me once--it got the hound-dog in the yard next door howling and I never laughed so hard in my life.) My neighbor's husband brought her flowers a couple of weeks ago--he walked into the room and says "Here," and tossed them to her and walked off. Boy howdy, she was mad. But HE thought he done good, he brought her flowers. . .<p>You are right--sometimes we are loved in ways that we have to decode to get any meaning out of. I think that marriage is an on-going process, and by the time you are about 80, you might have started to crack the code.

Bernzini, I meant your little boy, of course! Of course he's a lot like his dad; I think it's in the male gene. I have an 8-yr-old grandson who is the spitting image of his dad and has a lot of his personality traits, even though he hasn't seen much of his dad since he was 23 months old. It's been about 10 months now since he's seen him, even though his dad only lives about 12 miles down the road from me. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I have to go to work, but I wanted to respond. My H CAN be and HAS been incredibly romantic, which makes his lack of romantic inclination now seem even more painful to me. When we were planning our first wedding, I got frustrated with having to deal with my mother and what SHE thought we ought to have in the wedding and suggested that we just elope to Alabama. He nixed the idea, saying, "I've always dreamed of having a church wedding." Huh? I thought that was supposed to be MY line!

Lady Clueless said:
I need his promise, before God and everyone who knew he was cheating, that he will cherish me and will never again let anyone come between us again. I need to promise him that I will never stop honoring and cherishing him again.<p>Boy, I hear you. I longed for my old boyfriend to marry me for very similar reasons. I wanted him to stand before witnesses and swear he would love, honor, and cherish me and me alone for the rest of our days. But I didn’t press for marriage because deep down I knew that even if he did swear it in front of all those witnesses, it wouldn’t really make it true. I wanted the ceremony to work magic and fix all the flaws in our relationship – or to overcome all those flaws so that I could feel confident that if he ever did speak those vows, I would know they were true. <p>But here’s the funniest thing. I finally left that loser and found a great guy. And you know what? I don’t give a whit about being married anymore. He loves, honors, and cherishes me. I have what I really want, so I’m not even interested in that wedding part. <p>I do not tell you this to persuade you to leave your husband. But I do think you need to change your perspective somewhat. Your husband seems intent on avoiding all emotional depth with you. Rather than holding out for the day he will open his heart to you, consider the possibility (very strong possibility, in my opinion) that he will never open his heart to you. What do you want to do with the rest of your life? Will it be better with him in the picture or without him? You are the only person who can answer that question.

I believe this is the thread you need.
You have to read the whole thing to understand what is going on, but the "meat" is in two or three main posts. Hope it helps. <p> Discussion on fear, training spouse <p>It discusses what your husband needs, and some of the causes and solutions. <p>SS

Lady,<p>I understand how you are feeling and I am sorry. When I said communication problems, I was mainly refering your ability to communicate with each other in a way that will bring closure and mutual understanding. I think your H may block the communication by getting defensive. For the sex part, pick up a copy of "Mars and Venus in the Bedroom." It does a great job in describing how different the needs of men and women are when it comes to sex and how to communicate with each other effectively.