I’m looking for input on how to handle father’s day this year. I’m more then a little hurt because my H has ‘forgotten’ Valentine’s day, our wedding anniversary and mother’s day this year. He’s never been really good at remembering things like this. But after d-day in late 2000 he was trying to meet my needs per MB. He seems to be slipping back to his old ways. On both Valentine’s day and our anniversary I had bought him some really nice presents and fixed great dinners. I felt like a fool.<p>We are a blended family. His 3 children live with us, as do my two daughters. I am the primary parent to all the children. I don’t want to get into details here, but his children are very high need and have required a lot from me over the years. I do 90% of what they need. I feel that he's darn lucky to have someone who cares for his children more then their own mother does. She visits her children about once a year for a long weekend. I have also been very hurt and angry that he had an affair while I was left to take care of his children. He puts in about 1/8 of the effort into my children that I do into his children. <p> I know that I am not his mother. But I feel that our circumstance is such that he should thank me for mothering his children. And it sure would not hurt him any to take the children to Wal-Mart to buy me a card and flower, anything… make breakfast… anything. This year the kids asked me on mother’s day to take them to the store so that they could get me something. So I did. He stayed home.<p>About a week or two before each occasion he mentioned that he was coming up with a surprise that I’d really like. But then he never did anything… not even a card, a flower, or a ‘happy whatever day’. NOTHING. I let him know that I was very upset. Actually on our anniversary I flat out lost it. Did some yelling. This is extremely unusual for me.<p>So here I am a few days from father’s day. I feel like blowing it off just like he did the other days. He’s mentioned that father’s day is coming with some anticipation. But don’t think that I can take doing something special for him this time. I feel like I’m being petty but I’m just so hurt. I also think that it might do him some good to experience the same treatment. Another problem is that if I go out of my way to celebrate father’s day I’ll feel like I’m letting myself be treated badly. But if I do not I’ll feel miserable because I love doing things for him. So I know that I’m going to be miserable no mater what I do. Just wish I could leave town and return after father’s day.<p>I’ve told him how hurt I am. His responses have been things like: I planned to do something but then ran out of time. It just does not mean that much to me. Etc.<p>What should I do?<p>[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: MyLife ]</p>

I understand your frustration. MY husband has neglected every single holiday for 18 years, and I remember and do something nice for each and every one, it is a little hurtful sometimes.
I have pretty much just learned to accept it. and hope my children will learn by my example on this. They of course remind him as always, but he never comes through. Although I do remember when he had a girlfriend he bought her something for valantines day. DSO I know he knows how..
I would do it any way.. just a thought but show your children they should respect and show love for those they care about. It is his loss.

I agree do for the kids; his & yours. If nothing else you are teaching them how to treat a spouse.

mom of five <p>My H did the same thing. Says things like Valentines Day are not important to him. Says that he’s always been happy in our marriage, that has always loved me, that he would die if he looses me, yada yada yada. Says that the affair was something stupid that he got sucked into little by little. That he did not care for her more then on a superficial basis. Yet he treated her better then he treats me. During the 3 years of his affair, OW got cards, flowers, and dinner for Valentine’s Day. I got NOTHING, again not even a happy Valentines Day.<p>One of the things that drive me nuts is that he often mentions ahead of time that he’s got something planned and just never follows through. I feel like such a dope expecting anything. <p>I understand what you say about learning to accept it and doing the right thing anyway. This is what I did before d-day and reading MB. If you were to ask my husband he’d say that he’s not perfect but he follows MB concepts to the letter. What bothers me about it is that this is such a huge love buster for me. Every time he does this it I read it as meaning “I think you’re are a patsy. You are going to stay with me no matter what I do… have an affair, ignore you, etc. But that is not true. My love bank gets seriously depleted when he does this. Either I need to find a way to protect my love bank… by not caring or this will erode at it forever. I really do not think he will change on this issue. MB says that if something is a love buster and we do not tell our spouse about it over and over then we are at fault for leading them into a false sense of security. But I get very tired of bringing it up. And I know that if things don’t change my resentment will grow. So either he needs to change or I need to change.<p>I agree that I need to help the children learn to show respect and love. I’ve done that forever. And what is he teaching them, that we only do this for dad? Believe me the children are watching. My stepdaughter (13) explains her disrespectful treatment away that she does not feel that she has to treat me with respect because of the way her dad treats me. So all that I have poured into that child about showing respect and love has backfired. <p> The kids are getting older now so I could just give them some money and drop them off at Wal-Mart of the Mall. But it should be about more then just buying a gift. I know that I will not be able to do more then this. I just wish someone had a ‘get a clue pill’ I could give to him.<p>And yes it is his loss. I think I need to write him a letter about this issue. Just cannot talk about it anymore.<p>I wonder if anyone can tell me from a guy’s point of view why some (is it most) men are like this. And how they expect women to respond.<p>Thanks for your reply.

Sing,<p>You are right that I need to do this for the children. But then, based on MB, do I then pull him aside and tell him where my head is on this? Do I tell the children that I’m doing this because it’s the right thing despite what their father does? What am I teaching them if I don’t make this clear to them?<p>If this is all about teaching the children, then don’t they also need to know how their father’s lack of acknowledgement harms our relationship? Don’t they need to know that too? If they see me doing things for dad and he’s happy and I appear to be happy, then don’t they get the message that this is good.<p>And then when dad ignores me, and I appear to be happy don’t they get the message that there is one spouse who is more important then the other. That it is ok to not show respect and love. <p>Our children were in the house when I blew up on our anniversary. They thought the fireworks were funny. Said it was quite amusing. I take that as meaning that they don’t take my feelings about all this seriously either. After all.. I’m still here being the patsy.<p>I really feel that I need to change my expectations on holidays and special days. But what do I change them to?

ML,<p>Guys point of view. We are typically bad at this. It is not as important to us as to our wives. We formulate great ideas in our heads about what we should do well in advance but fail to start well in advance and life tends to get in the way and we end up disappointing again. If confronted about the mistake it is easy to become defensive and angry (because there is guilt there). <p>I have been guilty of some of these same things but also did not realize how important it was to W since it was not as important to me. <p>My advice. Read Love must be tough and apply the principles. I wish my W would have taken me aside away from the kids and other distractions and been honest with me. Be pleasent and nonaccusatory but let him know how important it is to you and how hurt you feel not being acknowledged on these special occasions. Let him know what the consequences are if you do not have this need fulfilled - Be nice here but explain - when your need isnt met, how it makes you feel and act, how you feel toward him what it makes you less likely to do for him etc. He needs to know that it has an impact on the way you view him and on your happiness in the M.<p>Up front let him know that you have wanted to talk to him about something that has been bothering you for a while that is really important. That you are not trying to point out faults or accuse but because you love him and are so much in love with him that you do not want anything to hurt your relationship with him. Let him know that you realize that he generally has great intentions and does think about it and make plans and that you love him for that, but that when in the end you are not recognized it really hurts. Let him know that you realize that it probably bothers him when you remind him about upcoming dates or bring up the fact that another important date has gone by uncellebrated but that this is sooooo important to you that you would like his help in letting you know how you can assist him if he would like. You can offer to remind him if he would like but find out how and how often and when. Suggest he put it on his calandar - I have done this at work on my electronic calandar and it has helped me although unfortunately it apears it is too late for my M. <p>He needs to know this is serious without feeling threatened. Do it in a spirit of love and concern for the marriage and relationship. This is one of the things I did poorly in my M and I know it cost me. Dont let it cost you too. Talk, really discuss and give him a chance to do it right and praise when it is better. But again in a non guilting and threating way let him know there are consequences even if they are only what you end up feeling about him. Then look at him in your most loving and respecting way and coo over him and how much you adore him and are in love with him and tell him how you dont want anything to hurt your realationship because it is so special to him. <p>I know, some of the things I am saying sound dumb but I wish my W would have tried them instead of not saying anything and just building up the hurt. Face it, we are pretty simple coo at us, make us feel good about ourselves and let us know what the boundries are. But if we feel accused or threatened we will bite. I am not saying pat him on the head and scratch him under the chin and everything will be ok. Talk, get his view but you may have to encourage it out of him and work to let him know how important it is to you. <p>If I may, I would like to suggest a couple other things. Read power of a praying wife. Encourage you H to go to the Dr. and go with him because you are concerned about him. It sounds from some of the things you say that he may have depression. A good book to read is (I believe the title of )Male depression unmasked. Men tend to isolate themselves when depressed.<p>Good luck <p>John

The first thing that cought my eye was that your H reminded you that Father's Day was coming up with a little anticipation and then when questioned about why you never received anything for any of the other holidays he replied that it just didn't mean that much to him.<p>Sounds to me like your H is still in selfish mode.<p>I think that your H needs to understand that the way you and him interact teach your children how a marriage should be.<p>To your children your marriage looks one sided. Your children are going to go into relationships thinking that the woman has to make all the effort while the man just sits back and laps it all up. Not sure if you have boys...would imagine you do with 5 kids in the house....but these boys are going to grow up not respecting women at all. The girls on the other hand are going to think that they have to do this or that to keep the relationship going.<p>Not a healthy thing to teach your children.<p>You also need to talk to your H about the responsibility of him taking care of kids and their needs too. If you keep going this way....the resentment is going to build. Been there.<p>Not sure if you realized it but you posted one of your needs...and not sure that your H knows that it's a need. You posted that you think your H should count himself lucky that you take care of his chldren as well as yours.......the need being recognition of this. He SHOULD count himself lucky. I'm not sure myself that I could take on anyone elses children and be able to accept them as my own.<p>I say for the kids sake....buy him a card and no more. Especially since it doesn't mean that much to him.

MyLife,<p>I agree with Miss Priss that your kids are not seeing the way a marriage should be. A proper marriage takes two adults cooperating. However, you only have control over how only one of the adults acts. You should act the way you think an adult should act. It gives the best role model for the kids and it comes from what's good in you, that's never a waste. I have had several anniverseries where I considered doing nothing in retaliation for previous lapses on my W's part... but, I never succumbed and ignored a "special day" and never regretted it afterward, even if she still "forgot".<p>In terms of your expectations, that's the biggee. Requiring someone else to behave in a certain way in order for you to be happy is setting yourself up for disaster. He knows exactly what's required to make you happy. This might be his way of rebelling at what he perceives as "control". David Schnarch talks about situations like this in "Passionate Marriage" (my favorite "marriage" book).<p>Your H may continue to behave like this until he figures out that doing things that make you happy don't threaten his "self". The interesting thing about this is that by treating him respectfully, you increase the pressure on him... Treating him badly will let him off the hook and give him less motivation to grow up.<p>Of course, respect doesn't require you to throw him a party either. Help his children buy him cards and find out what they want to do with their dad on Father's day. Father's day is as much about them as it is about him.<p>Jeffers

I am overwhelmed with the responses I’ve received here. Each adds a perspective. <p>Looks like the vote is that the right thing to do here is for me to facilitate the children doing what they want for father’s day. It is about them and him. Thanks for your help. I think I’ll be able to get my head in a place where I can do things. <p>JohnC, nothing you said sounds dumb. Your post was very insightful and has given me a lot to think of. Since d-day my H has gotten medical help for what I think is a long-term depression that predates the affair. The affair was perhaps a form a self-medication… a high. He’s doing better but is still not totally out of the depression. Some days he spends most of the day sitting in front of his computer playing games. I’m slowly getting him out of his cave to participate in life. Thanks for the book suggestions.<p>Miss Priss, yes I would like more pats on the back and more help with these children. We are working on that issue too. One thing I’ve started (the old 180) is to just go out and leave him alone with the kids. That gives me a break and puts them right in his lap. <p>Jeffers you are right that I am setting myself up for a disaster expecting him to behave in a certain way. This is one of the things about MB that I keep mulling over. We are suppose to tell our spouses what are needs are and specifically how to meet them. Doesn’t that exercise then leave us with expectations? And then what when the expectations are not met. The rebellion issue really hits home. Though he says that he understands my needs and we have agreed to follow MB, he does not do it. Perhaps this explains why.<p>Well, I have a lot to think about with all this input, thanks.

Hi ML,
Here is some more input for you. It seems to be along the same lines as what you are coping with. <p>The main thouthts are in just a couple of posts, but you have to read the whole thing to understand it and put it in context.
Discussion on meeting needs, training spouse
<p>Hope it helps. <p>SS

I hate to say it but I think maybe some radical action is required. You have tried to discuss this nicely and rationally.
I think you should in effect do a Plan B for the holiday. What I mean is this:
Write your H a letter, starting with a description of how you would like to celebrate Mother's/Father's Day. Something nice and not critical. Such as <p>"Mother's/Father's Day is a way for us to celebrate the parenting efforts a spouse puts forth. Parenting can be really challenging and difficult. I want you to know how much I appreciate your efforts. I like to celebrate it by...... making a breakfast in bed, giving cards, etc. I also feel it's my responsibility to help the children acknowledge your importance to them as they are not yet independant in handling this."
"Obviously you feel differently. You've told me that these holidays don't mean much to you. On Mother's Day I realized that you preferred not to celebrate it. You also did not help our children with their celebration, and I realize you don't want to be involved in this role."
"These holidays have become painful for me. I want to acknowledge how much you mean to me as a father to our children. But it hurts to do this when you don't express to me what I mean to you as a mother."
"This year I will be out of the house for Father's Day. I've given the children money so they can organize a Father's Day tribute to you."
"I understand now that you prefer not celebrate these holidays- M's Day, F's Day, anniversary etc. I respect your point of view. I think it's important that we mutually decide on how to acknowledge these important events. (POJA) I am also open to hearing your suggestions."<p>My advice is to be out of the house for the day and make your point loud and clear. Nicely telling him doesn't seem to have the desired effect.