Is it possible to be involved in an EA and truly deny it to yourself? I don't mean an EA where you developed a strong friendship or bond with OP, I mean an EA where you express feelings of love for the OP, secretly meet with them, hundreds of cell phone calls and voice mails to them, lies upon lies to your spouse and others to cover it up or deny it. How can someone deny this to themself? Can you REALLY believe this has had no affect on your marriage? Can you really feel no guilt or shame or remorse? Do you really feel it's not an affair if it wasn't physical? Is it easier to run from the marriage than face what you've done?<p>Insight needed!<p>sad dad<p>[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</p>

SD,
I'm not sure I can offer you any good insight, but I can say that my situation shares many similarities with yours.
My WW offers no remorse or shame for what she has done repeatedly; her response is always to turn things back at me saying for example, that she doesn't love me any longer, or other "foggy" explanations.<p>Additionally, yes, in the short term it is easier to run from the marriage than to face herself. But this can't last forever, though, there will come a time that she will have to confront herself. The question here then becomes, where will you be during this period? and will you be willing to work to repair things?<p>In many ways maybe it doesn't matter if she acknowledges what her state-of-affairs is. It will still most-likely follow a normal course, where this "relationship" will die a natural death. Then, you need to be there.<p>Hang in there!<p>Sweden

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by sad dad:
<strong>Do you really feel it's not an affair if it wasn't physical? </strong><hr></blockquote><p>I believe this is a very common conclusion of WSs. <p>How Clintonesque! Not just "physical", but requiring sexual intercourse.<p>I'm certain that central to my XW's denials of an affair, to this day, are based on this logic.<p>As to your other questions of "How?" or "Why?", it's clear: It's all due to the alien abduction.<p>[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: worthatry ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by sad dad:
<strong>Is it possible to be involved in an EA and truly deny it to yourself? I don't mean an EA where you developed a strong friendship or bond with OP, I mean an EA where you express feelings of love for the OP, secretly meet with them, hundreds of cell phone calls and voice mails to them, lies upon lies to your spouse and others to cover it up or deny it. How can someone deny this to themself? Can you REALLY believe this has had no affect on your marriage? Can you really feel no guilt or shame or remorse? Do you really feel it's not an affair if it wasn't physical? Is it easier to run from the marriage than face what you've done?<p>Insight needed!<p>sad dad<p>[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: sad dad ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Incredible as it may seem, this is EXACTLY what my WW has also done. And I understand it about as much as you do...
I can't possibly say if this is often or always the case, but it appears to be pretty common.
In my case, admitting she is wrong seems to be harder for her to do than perhaps losing her marriage.

sad dad -<p>ditto on everything said here. alien abduction sums it up for me. i don't think my H even realizes what he is feeling/thinking, etc. strange but true. if it weren't for MB and ppl like WAT explaining the alien/brains scrambled theory, i'm not sure how i'd still keep hanging in there! <p>take it easy,
Llama

SD:<p>I would be willing to bet that, except perhaps in cases where one deliberately sets out to have an EA with full knowledge of what it is, THIS is EXACTLY what happens in all cases. It comes on so subtly that the person involved doesn't even know it's happened, and once they're in the thick of it, if they have any concience at all, they have to rationalize the guilt out of the picture so they can continue to "cope" - juggling their real life and this fantasy existence.

Sad Dad, This is a typical situation if you asked me. My W started a EA with Co-worker. Once it started last year, she called him 116+ times from our house alone in a month and a half, and she works with him 4 days a week. She claims that they are friends and she needed someone to talk to, but she did admit that she has feelings for him. She tries to deny saying that now, but we both know. She ran out at night sometimes to call him on a pay phone. <p>W has not once showed any guilt, shame or remorse. I think that she feels somewhat justified in her actions. She feels that our marriage had problems and that this was the natural thing to do. W has told me it had nothing to do with OM, that it was between me and her. But yet we were talking about having another baby and buying a bigger house before D-day hit. Go figure. <p>I also think that W had a lot of outside interference with her group of friends. Misery loves company! <p>I read alot on this site and it seems that this is the normal course. Sad but true. <p>Good Luck Sad Dad<p>Dino

sad dad and others<p>A's and especially EA's remind me of a parable that I heard when i was in grade school about "kooking a frog."
There's a right way and a wrong way.<p>The wrong way is to heat up the water to a boil and throw the frog in. Well the frog realizes that the water is hot and jumps out immediately.<p>The correct way is to put the frog in a pot of nice tepid water. Then to turn the heat on. Slowly over time raise the heat. Just as 2Long says above the A comes on subtly catching the WS by surprise and as things progress or "heat up" they don't realize that they are in the thick of the fog. Like the frog they never realize that the water is now at full boil and they are "cooked."<p>My W now realizes that she had an EA and regrets the hurt that she has caused although occassionally she'll regress into a rationalization that I caused it by my angry and controlling behavior. It took me breaking sown in front of her for her to realize the hurt. Many, many prior relationship talk didn't have the effect that my raw emotion did. She had never in our 15 yr plus marriage ever seen me cry so she knew......<p>Good luck to all!!!

cwmac,<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by cwmac:
<strong> It took me breaking sown in front of her for her to realize the hurt. Many, many prior relationship talk didn't have the effect that my raw emotion did. !!!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Funny you would say this. I recently broke down in front of my W. It was after a difficult discussion on a custody arrangement. My emotions were flying high and I just lost it. I didn't get angry, I just cried and let alot of the hurt out.
For the first time in a year she showed some genuine concern for me.<p>sad dad

cwmac what a great way to put an A. "kooking a frog". Sounds like my H's EA/no-sex PA. <p>Old HS friend contacts him, he goes to lunch with her. Then she continues the contact asking him to lunch, then it was a friendly hug. She calls, emails and ask him to lunch again, this time it was a friendly hug and a friendly kiss. And so on with more intense kisses. The emails, phone calls, lunches continue and he is hiding it from me. <p>My H still says they were "just friends" that he only wanted someone to talk to. To him it was just contact with a friend and nothing more. The fog was thick because he says he could never see that it was wrong, but, he kept it a secret. <p>He now realizes that it was an A and regrets everything. He knows he has damaged us.