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#1007404 06/11/02 01:03 PM
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Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anyone had any insight on my situation. I've been posting on Plan A/B but there seems to be more "action" over here in GQII. Anyway, you can find my story at:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=30&t=001238

I found a journal/diary which my wife recently wrote which was enlightening. Lots of contradictions in thought but it is also very clear that she intends on divorcing me asap. Much of it she has told me and much of it seems like a response to the comments from myself, her parents and her friends.

<small>[ August 20, 2002, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: aanast2 ]</small>

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It could have been written my My W. I wish I could tell you the fog will lift and everything will be OK, but that might not be the case. This is something I have been battling for a year and a half, and it's up and down. Try to think of this way. This is what she feels at that moment in time. It does not mean she will feel that way tomorrow or in a week or in 2 years. I don't know your situation, but it sounds like you were sandbagged too. This seems to be a common occurrence with WW's. I can only tell you what I think about my situation. I think my WW is staying right now because she thinks it's the easiest thing to do, and she will probably remain on the fence for a while.
Plan A, but and stress this, if the contact continues, you'll have to make a decision on if you can live with it. I can't and I have made up my mind if I find out about any contact, it's Plan B for sure and probably on to a D.
Hang in there, I know how reading that stuff hurts, but my WW gave me an anniversary card last September that said " I'll try to be a better partner and wife to you". That from a women who wrote words a lot like your W did 6 months earlier. To sum up, It's like a roller coaster , so fasten your seat belts... it's going to be a bumpy ride.
I hope I have helped you some.

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Bumping this up for aanast. Please help him interpret.

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Well ... from my POV ...<p>This diary type of talk is not easily understood by most men. She is thinking out loud (on paper) she is not necessarily reaching conclusions or decisions at this time, but working toward unraveling the strings in her brain. She is self-admittedly more inclined to listen to her emotionality, and not to her intellect. (But, she doesn't like this about herself) She is trying to work out her thoughts so they do not conflict with her actions ... and, it's not working out so far! She does not approve of her actions. This does not sit well with her, so rationalization is in order.<p>She struggles with inependence issues going back to childhood. <p>She sounds like a very young soul.<p>This OM relationship is a "transitional man" for your WW... although I'm sure neither of them think so. He is a vehicle functioning as a "get away car" from her deeper issues of independence, emotional thinking, and over-all immaturity. She is being rescued ... but not able to rescue herself!<p>I think your wife is very likely a sweetly confused woman who finds herself in a crisis ... looking for her "real identity" ... and looking outside herself, instead of within.<p>Hope I helped some.<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

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aanast2<p>Her diary entry tells me several things in addition to those previously stated by others above. <p>The foremost is that you need to create a safe environment for WW in your home. Start or keep plan Aing regardless of how you feel. Don't LB!! Ask parents to "butt out" and if they won't distance yourself from them. How did they find out in first place? <p>Second, she is giving you a road map to EN's that haven't been fullfilled by you and are being fullfilled by OM. It sounds like your wife feels controlled by you and the parents. She also has fallen in to the rut of "the house, the dog, etc" Usually wives that feel this way don't get enough Communication so they feel trapped in the duties of being a W. Communicate w/ her. Tell her what your hopes and dreams are for the future.<p>Don't play the part of "poor (me)" from the diary entry. Be happy be strong and when you're upset don't show it in an angry way. If she asks tell he you love her and want to work on the M.<p>Lastly you act as though your Plan Aing should have prevented the PA. Everything that I've read on SH's site says that Plan A doesn't end the A. It will typically end on its own or if it's too late end in Divorce.<p>My observations

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I would say first that not everything she wrote is a conclusion; sounds more like random thoughts, her way of processing things. She is trying to reach a conclusion by doing it.<p>And second; use the information for POSITIVE actions; what she says about her EN's is critical to pay attention to, and as others have said, Plan A BIG TIME! No feeling sorry for yourself, no sadness, just Mr. Goodbar!

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ditto Pepper and cwmac<p>To me, this sounds like typical female WS fare.<p>To apply Michelle Weiner-Davis' recommendation, don't believe any of what you hear and only half of what you see. Hmmmmmm - if you read it, are you seeing it or hearing it?<p>At least, she's thinking and is unsure.<p>Do your best Plan A and strap on your seatbelt. This is not a lost cause, IMHO.

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Hi aanast,
I read everything and it sounds to me like your wife has her mind made up--that her only way out of this bad situation is to divorce you. My question is do you really want to be married to someone who doesn't want to be married to you?<p>The reason why you don't want Plan B is because you still have A LOT of love for your wayward spouse. I think you're normally supposed to go to Plan B when you have no other way to preserve your love left than to be away from watching the A continue before your eyes...<p>So my next question is what happens when your darling wife discovers that there is NOTHING "out there" but jerks, STDs and headaches??? OMG! She's got it made but can't see it. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] To betray you in the most hurtful way humanly possible and yet still have your forgiveness and willingness to repair what went wrong, that's definitely "dreamland!"<p>Still, it is sad to see her give up without really trying. There's a difference between surviving with all the love units withdrawn from one's love bank (and the other spouse doesn't know), and both people working together on rebuilding the love bank deposits.<p>I think you should really hear the part where she said that her mind was made up long before the OM. It didn't seem like she was lying about that much. So perhaps your taking her for granted didn't help but her way of not giving you a chance to make it up to her is not helping either! Okay, I'm sorry--that's not helpful of me! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I think you definitely have to remove "you should" or "you need to" from your vocabulary when speaking to your W. And, if there is any way you could ask your mother-in-law to stop chastising her daughter? I think your MIL will respect YOUR wishes if you asked her nicely to 'butt out.' It seems to me that whenever her mother says something against her decisions, it works against YOU and makes you look bad!!! After all, the MIL probably wouldn't know if you had not mentioned it so I think if you asked them to allow yourself and their daughter to work it out, the MIL would respect you. That might add some love bank deposits to your credit.<p>No matter what happens, I believe your wife will discover that what she had with you was/is her best option. So, keep the house because my gut feeling is that she'll be baaaaaack... eventually...<p>If OM claims he has the patience to wait for her, I KNOW you do! He has nothing to offer! You have a lifetime of memories as well as a future. In the meantime, just keep working on YOU. Letting her go doesn't mean you are giving up, just means you are letting go of what you cannot control. You can control yourself but you can't change anyone else. So I say, keep working on improving yourself.

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p.s. You probably should delete her journal entry should she ever become a MBer down the road and visit this website!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

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I will respectfully disagree with BINthereDUNthat on this:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
<strong>I think you should really hear the part where she said that her mind was made up long before the OM. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Sounds like typical WS revisionist history.<p>BUT, I do not disagree with BINthereDUNthat's advice.<p>You see, the bottom line is that YOUR actions should be the same no matter what your WS's sense of reality is today, was yesterday, or will be tomorrow. <p>Work on yourself thru Plan A and plan on Plan B in the future. Consider a session with Steve or Jennifer - the MB counselors. Her diary text would be a valuabe tool for them to analyze.<p>WAT

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OK here's what I think -- not coming from a place of great knowledge but from a point of similar experience, only a month or so down the road. This is mostly fog-ese. I too have read similar diary entries from my WH, in fact he could have written this one. (These thinkings are not limited to females.) During this time after discovery, the WS has so much conflict that it eats them up. They need to justify the terrible thing that they have done. Justify, justify, justify -- read that into the comments about being swept away by emotions, rewriting your M history, the OM being 'perfect'. If she doesn't believe that things with you were bad and things with OM are true, then she cannot resolve the conflict in her head and assuage the guilt of what she has done.<p>I disagree with BTDT. She has not decided to divorce you; she is only extremely confused and in the fog right now. Think of the journal as an outlet for her conflict. My WH wrote similar things then 2 weeks later was admitting that he still loves me. No, things are not perfect and I still have a lot of uncertainty, But WH is still here and very far from divorce.<p>She will be looking for reasons to stay. That is why a good Plan A without LB's is crucial right now. Give her every reason to stay. Show her that you can change, improve yourself, meet her needs, identify areas in your M that need improvement and above all try not to LB. I still think there is hope.

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bumping up for aanast2.... you around today?<p>You've gotten some great advice here.<p>I agree with the suggestion to delete that journal entry pretty soon. Many WS's don't like their lives being discussed here, much less the innermost thoughts written in a diary.

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Well, I know you guys are right about the fog and everything. Still, I just got that she was unhappy long before she decided to have an affair and was trying to tell him in her own way, but unsuccessful... Was she unsuccessful because of being treated like she was invisible? Was she unsuccessful because of being treated like her feelings don't count? Was she unsuccessful because of not being heard? WHY was she unsuccessful in communicating her unhappiness? And now when she tries to communicate her feelings, she is still being ignored... she says...<p>Obviously she has not made up her mind to divorce or she would have been gone by now. Obviously she's very confused. But one thing she is clear about and that is her unhappiness stemming from before her affair.<p>Another thing she is clear about and that is she feels ganged up on by her H and parents. She feels she is not being heard. Says that decisions are being made for her like she's a child. This is going to keep driving her away, emotionally, IMHO.<p>That's what I mean he should pay attention to her and hear her, rather than discount and discredit her words as if she doesn't know what she's talking about. So what if she doesn't??? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Her feelings are what they are and whether she's in the fog, I think for aanast2, it would be a huge LB to discount his WS's feelings, thoughts, & words right now. Maybe the best thing to say to her is, "Okay, honey. I hear you."<p>It seems to me, her biggest complaint is having her feelings discounted by those closest to her...

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by BINthereDUNthat:
<strong>Her feelings are what they are and whether she's in the fog, I think for aanast2, it would be a huge LB to discount his WS's feelings, thoughts, & words right now. Maybe the best thing to say to her is, "Okay, honey. I hear you."</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yep. Well stated.<p>Going back to my original agreement with BIN's advice - it doesn't matter whether revisionist history is taking place or not - aanast2's actions should be the same.<p>In keeping with avoiding LBs, I ditto the recommendation to delete the diary text from this post. I caused a bit of a furor on the D/D version of this post in disagreeing with a responder that aanast2 had no right to go into his W's diary. I see his snooping as just more snooping - necessary affair research given the hand he's been dealt. IMHO, it makes no difference what the source of the information is - diary or cell phone records - seeking the truth is justifiable in the context of a marriage. All snooping is a potential LB if discovered.<p>So, to all who responded on this post, if aanast2 follows our recommendations to delete the diary, we should likewise delete our references to it in our replys.<p>WAT

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Yes, I agree WAT. Perhaps when aanast returns and finishes reading his replies, he can personally request that the moderators delete his threads on this topic.<p>Sometimes BS MUST snoop to get the answers they need. There are not many WS's out there openly spilling their guts and when they do, they LIE so the BS has to do what they need to do satisfy curiosity & confusion and so I see nothing wrong with searching for those answers. WS's have a way of making the BS think they are crazy or imagining things or stupid or all of the above... [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] (Not nice!)<p>Even when the BS has all the proof staring their WS in the face with it, many WS still deny it. EXCEPT--I remember one particular story involving a video tape! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> It's almost as if the BS must walk in the room and catch them in the act (WITH THE OP--a 3rd party in the room), before they admit they are busted?!?!<p>I don't know why that is, all I do know is that cheating and lying go hand in hand. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be a cheater and not lie. Sneaking and lying goes with the territory of affairs... <p>The reason I felt the post should be removed is because he expressed discomfort in posting it... I agree tho, if she finds this, what a HUGE LB it would be!<p>I hope aanast has not abandoned all his threads!!<p>Have a nice weekend! WAT--have a nice vacation if you're not gone already!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]


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