Has anyone read David Schnarch's book, Passionate Marriage ? He is the author of the Sexual Crucible which is sometimes mentioned on these boards although it was primarily written for therapists. Passionate Marriage is for the general public but still a slow read for me at least and I am having trouble with his main concept of "differentiation." I am not sure if it is a philosophy opposite to MB or just another way of building intimacy. Any thoughts ?<p>Jack

Boy did you EVER come to the right place! I'm half way through it and you are SOOOO right...it's a slow read. I can fully digest your average "self help" book in a day...two days if I get interrupted often. This has taken me MONTHS of chewing on one chapter at a time. Differentiation is an AMAZING concept and made sense to me when I looked at the relationship I had with my father. I'm still noticing it in my marriage, and am interested in finishing the book to see what more I can learn.<p>Anyway, MANY of the posters here have read the book. Conquerer quotes from it often, and I know Cali got a lot from it too.<p>The best way I can describe being differentiated is that you can continue to be an individual and still remain connected. <p>In the case of my father and I...I felt I was being an individual by remaining distanced from his controlling ways. Had I been differentiated I could have remained an individual even if my father DID try to control me. I would have felt safe enough in myself to not need the distance. In my marriage, when my H would do or say something hurtful to me emotionally...I would distance from him to avoid further hurt. By growing more differentiated...I can allow him to say or act as he wants, and not feel it as a reflection upon me. I know when I am in need of improvement, and when I'm just fine as I am. I can still feel safe around him even if HE doesn't think I am fine the way I am.<p>Does that help at all??

This book has been extremely helpful to me. I just finished reading it for the second time a few weeks back. Yes, it is s-l-o-w going!
The idea of "differentiation" I feel goes had-in-hand with Plan Aing, but at a deeper level. It really places the emphasis on the "focusing on yourself instead of your partner" part.
Although I am no master at this yet, I have found that the book has given me the ability to go into some scary situations and still hang on to myself. <p>My last comment on the book was maybe it probed a bit too far into the sex issue, WOW! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] and not far enough into the the affair part, which is all too common of an advice area for people interested in these sorts of books.<p>Sweden

LOL...TOOO true Sweden. I KNOW it's a book on intimacy, but it does get extrememly detailed. I've wanted to recommend it to some friends, but I know they'd be so put off by the other parts that they wouldn't read it. It'd be great if he could do an easier read version with more emphasis on the concept of differentiation and how to achieve it.

h4f,
Yes, one can probably skip the middle of the book in situations like many of ours...One needs to get to the point of actaully having sexual relations with one's spouse again before you need to worry if your eyes are going to be open or closed...<p>One think that I really liked about the book was the concept of most relationships are like an "A;" the two partners (legs of the A in this case) leaning on each other. When one moves the other one stumbles. Whereas, Schlarch thinks that relationships should be more like a "H." When one leg shifts, or moves, the other leg isn't directly impacted by it, because it is not directly adjoined. <p>This simple concept has helped in me not getting me sucked into my WW's assults when she is frustrated. It's no more than a good effective Plan A...<p>Sweden

[img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] ....<p>One of my FAVS! <p>I think that discovering YOUR crucible , in a chapter near the end of the book... is what PLAN A is all about...<p>learning to hold onto yourself...<p>Cali

I just finished reading this book and have started reading it for the second time. I think it's very informative, and it has provided me with a different perspective on many things in my relationship. The part I found the most interesting was about differentiating and not allowing one's spouse to drag you into their feelings. It's true, if you are caught up in the turmoil, there is no way you can help them and vice versa. This book was so helpful to me in understanding what our MC has been trying to tell us. He told us we look to each other too much for self-validation, and I didn't understand what he was really talking about until I read this book. I especially loved the boat analogy or being in separate boats rather than the same boat. I've been going through the same power struggles over and over again with my spouse because we are both trying to steer the boat! Now I know why the struggle has been so fierce, and I've begun to steer my own boat and not let WS's perspectives, etc., influence my moods. It's a very liberating experience.<p>I would recommend this book to anyone.

All-<p>Thanks for your feedback, I'm not sure the sexual stuff has much relevance for me, though I remain open minded, because sex has never been an issue before during or after the A. It has always been great, and my ww swears to that, so I gotta believe her. I really do think the A was about unmet emotional needs and that is one reason I found this site so relevant to my understanding and acceptance. But Scnarch's discussion of "fusion" intrigues me as much as differentiation. Seems to me that an A is the surest and most expedient way of separating and meeting the need for "self." Too bad we didn't find a constructive approach before it was too late. I read in some other book, forget which, that ws's don't necessarily love the other person or even the A as much as they love the part of themselves it brings out, the self, the part not fused or shared witn a spouse. In my recovery I am trying to ensure that my w can give up her affair (she has had no contact) and still have a way to answer that same desire for self and while I am at it I am going to try to find it too. <p>Jack

Jack,
It sounds as though you are making some positive strides and on the right track!
Keep on chipping away at the Schlarch book because this goes far beyond the A. If you aren't there already, the last 75-100 pages are the real "meat" of the book, as I think Cali has already mentioned. <p>Good luck!<p>Sweden