I've been thinking about the responses I got to my post, "What is WRONG with me?"<p>What I think I'm going to do may sound sort of drastic, but it might make my H realize just how serious I am about wanting to renew our vows.<p>After a fun day of fishing, and after supper, I plan to initiate this conversation. Here is a scenario of how the conversation might go:<p>Me: "Honey, I would like to know something. When are you going to plan a romantic evening to propose to me?"<p>H: "I hadn't thought about it. Am I supposed to?"<p>Me: "Well, it's been quite a while since I told you that I want and need for us to renew our vows."<p>H: "We've already done it one time. That should be enough."<p>Me: "Well, things have changed since then, and it's important to me that we renew our vows."<p>H: "Well, I don't think we need to." (He'll probably be getting angry by this point.)<p>Me: "Does that mean that you don't want to?"<p>H: (iffy on what he'll say to this, but probably...) "No, I'm just saying that we don't need to. We're already married."<p>Me: "I see. So, we're in a position where I need for us to renew our vows and you don't need us to, right?"<p>H: "Right!"<p>Me: "Well, then, the only solution I can see is to change things so that if we love each other and want to be married, we would both need to get remarried. If one of us doesn't want to get remarried, then the other person should be free."<p>H: "What in H-e-double-hockey-sticks are you talking about?"<p>Me: "Well, maybe we should just get a friendly divorce. We could keep all the financial stuff as it is, only as partners, and I'd just move into the guest room."<p>Now, I know the fight would be on after this, but most of the time, creating conflict is the only way to get the air cleared between my H and me. In fact, the most progress we've made over the past 4 years has usually come after I throw a hissy fit about something.<p>Anyway, I am at the point where if my H doesn't want to remarry me, I would rather be single.<p>I have absolutely no problem at all with being away from him. Actually, I enjoy my time to myself. I don't NEED him to be happy, but if I'm going to be happy that he's in my life, I need for him to be totally committed the way I need for him to be.

What ever happened to POJA? <p>Now, I know he doesn't believe it it, but this is MB, and we do? Don't we? <p>I really just wanted to get you thinking ( like you want to get him thinking.) <p>You may try a more low key approch.
"H, I have strong feelings about this, it is important to me. Will you make it important to you too, because you care for me and want to make me happy". <p>Just some more thoughts, to keep your mind busy.<p>SS

BTW, maybe you should change your sig line to "my H is clueless" [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You are NOT. He is?<p>SS<p>[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

Let me play devil's advocate - what happens if he says "ok the divorce sounds good." ?

Ah, is this called creative fighting? Will be interesting to see where this goes. It could work big time, or blow up big time.<p>Better be prepared for TinyDancer,'s scenario. Most men do not like to be backed into corners.

LC,<p>I'm afraid this won't have the effect on you you're hoping for. IOW, I don't think you really want this. I think what you really want is for HIM to propose this on his own, to choose you and show you his commitment that way, the way he did before. You probably didn't provoke him into it the first time, so I don't think it will be reassuring to you to have it happen this way.<p>I think it is legitimate if you do not feel loved in this R to end it for that reason, especially if you have told him what you need to help you feel loved. I'm afraid if you make the wedding thing the central part of this that he won't get the real meat of what is hurting you so badly. Could it be the wedding is a Band-Aid you're wanting to put on the wound hoping to make it feel better? Maybe you need major surgery first. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks, All,
I'll probably think on this a while longer, but will probably do some version of this.<p>Still seeking,
I would love to have POJA, but my H isn't into that. He might agree to something, but then later go ahead and do whatever the heck he wants. This especially bugs me when it comes to our business...I handle the financial end of things and he does things that I call "creative bookkeeping" which means that I have to straighten out whatever mess he's created...when I find out what he's done. I'm talking about collecting money and not telling me, using our sales tax number on stuff that is not exempt, not giving me information that I need to have when someone calls, etc. He is just a guy who thinks that what HE wants to do is the only thing that matters.<p>I have told him almost exactly what you're saying I should say. Made no difference.<p>And, BTW, the reason I'm "Lady Clueless" is because he is "Lord Clueless". [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Tiny Dancer,
If he says the divorce sounds good, that is fine. Yes, I do love him, alhough I think my love bank has taken some huge hits over the past 29 years (that's how far back I can date the problems we've had--suspect he started cheating then). If he says the divorce sounds good, then that only confirms that I don't want to stay in this marriage as it is.<p>
Zorweb,
The point is that I feel like I'm backed into a corner, and I'm trying to get out of it!<p>Conquerer,
Yes, I DO want my H to propose to me on his own, but it ain't gonna happen.<p> I do want to be married, but not the way we are now. I have resigned myself to knowing that my H may never open up and tell me the whole truth. I pretty much figure that I've learned enough about him over the past years that I can pretty much tell what he's done. Although I would very much like for him to be totally honest with me, I understand that he is protecting himself (although he probably thinks he's protecting me). I also think I know him well enough now that I can head off potential future OW situations at the pass. Actually, I wonder if that's one reason he doesn't want to renew our vows...you know, not wanting to make promises he can't keep.<p>Anyway, I'm going to sit on this for a while longer. I got the "His Needs, Her Needs" tape for him, and I hope that he will listen to it. I doubt if he will listen to it, but we'll see.<p>Thanks for the responses. This is not something I'm going to do in a hurry, but will probably end up doing. If it ends in a divorce, then so be it. That would be affirmation that H doesn't really love me enough to be married to me.

I have thought some more about you and your H. <p>Just as a sidebar, have you ever noticed that we often go into a thread and post not knowing much about the person, we just kind of post off the cuff. The other side, is we get to be friends with someone on this forum, and we get so close that our emotions cloud the advice we give? So on the one hand, we can't give really accurate advice because we don't know enough, and on the other, we know enough, but we feel for the person so much, that our advice may be somewhat baised on emotion. <p>I still don't know enough about you, but thanks for clueing me in on your name. You may have commented on it long ago, but I missed it. Thank you. But I still feel you should choose a name that describes you, and not define yourself by your husbands faults and failings. Does that make sense?<p>
Many men are clueless. I am trying but my wife has told me more than once that " you just don't get it, do you." Well, some days I do, but some I don't. Sounds like your H never does? Or rarely? <p>I don't know how far you have gone with it, but here's another possibility. I do feel that with such strong feelings, you need to discuss the D word, but you can do it in a more friendly way. <p>First you need to get his attention, I don't know how you do that, but you would probably have a way by now. <p>2nd you need to tell him that this is a serious talk, that the consequences of his not paying attention will result in D. Just so he knows he needs to listen. You may have a better way - if so, use it. "H, I have been through so much, and my love for you is so far gone, that if you can't understand what I need and start to respond, we will probably end up divorced." <p>3rd, he needs to know what you need to make it work. Explain about vows. <p>You need to explain it to him in a way he can "get it" Your feelings are too strong for a vent here to take care of the resemtment you are building up. He needs the truth, and if he can't take it, and won't respond, it isn't going to work anyway. <p>I would call you Lady P. P for patience. Maybe you have a better one? Sorry, but Lady C just doesn't seem to fit you. Just a bad association for me. ( I know it's not my call, just my feelings.) <p>Well, there's another point of view for you. If you have already been there, I will have to do somemore homework. <p>I suppose I am agreeing with you that you need to have that talk. I know it would be better if he would just do it, but he won't so you will have to teach him. I am often bad at doing things on my own, but I can be trained, hope he can. <p>Wishing you well,
SS<p>[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>