This is a question that I have been thinking of posting for awhile. Anyone else out there feeling that even tho they are in recovery, that they are rethinking everything about their lives? <p>My H is doing great, I'm the one thats a mess. I feel like I am now going to have my own MLC here pretty soon, if its not happening already. By MLC I mean that I am looking at my past and finding it wanting. I am questioning my M, have doubts about my H really being able to meet my needs over the long-term, wondering if he will have another A and wondering if its worth the risk to stay. I have begun to feel like I am VERY vulnerable to at least an EA, because I want that feeling of being special to someone, to be so "loved" that that person would be willing to give it all up for me. (Thats what I thought my FWH was going to end up doing for OW) I want romance and excitement. I feel like I have almost become a WS in my mind. <p>I have been in this M for 15 years and not gotten many of my most important EN met for a very long time. That was alright with me (mostly)for a long time, because I had this illusion of a life that gave me comfort. I no longer have that illusion, and I am not willing to settle any longer for that half-empty marriage. And I didn't even have the A! I don't want to live like that anymore. I have talked with my H about my feelings, I think I scared him. I don't know how this desire for excitement can be had in a long-term M, because as everyone here knows, that can only be found in the "newness" of a relationship. That was part of the attraction of the A for those WS out there.<p>I guess I also can now say that I can understand some of the feelings that a person who might have an A could be feeling. I am very susceptible right now. I know intellectually that it would be false and an illusion and would cause more problems in my life, but there it is. I have these feelings.<p>I am also so disappointed and even disgusted with myself at the same time, because I never would have thought that I would feel this way. I truly expected that once we got into recovery and were working to get our M to a better place than ever, I would be ecstatic. I guess now that I have admitted to myself that I might be capable of having an A, then I must also fully realize that I am not a better person than he. Maybe I have believed that for awhile now, cuz I have been "the rock that has held this family together". So now I need to see that perhaps we are not so different after all.<p>I guess I am just putting some thoughts down about my life. C

Firefly,
I don't think your feelings are so very strange...as a matter of fact, I think they are pretty normal for anyone that has gone through a major life crisis.<p>I'll bet your husband was scared! LOL..as you said..now you understand why A's sometimes happen..wouldn't be surprized if he was wondering if that where you are now!<p>When I think of our start..the supercharged, shared exhileration of new love, while powerful..is not going to last..we all know that. There are people who go there whole life looking for that..I think they're called seriel cheaters.<p>As silly as it sounds, you actually may be at a jumping off place to something even better. I was thinking pretty much like you at around that 6 months recovery time. Think I may have even had the same conversation you guys did..and then pondered on it for about a week.<p>I hate people that bring me problems and never stop to find solutions..and I realized that was exactly what I did with that conversation...so I thought of a solution to try..let's try harder.<p>Let's redo our EN sheets, let's talk about our past lives and how they influenced us, let's meet and reintroduce the rather middle aged people we've become. Let's explore some new hobbies. Let's take some very selfish time for us for a while..we will live like we only have 3-4 weeks left.<p>It helped alot..I found something more precious than exhileration..I found a contentment that had eluded me for a long time. And it's not over.<p>I found pleasure in the fact that he would try to meet an EN..maybe not in the way I would..but in a way unique to him. I'm learning to love him not for what I want him to be..but for what he is.<p>Don't know that this helps. I do know there are still fleeting times that I wonder "what if". I wonder how content I would be if the A never happened..and I was still just sort of trudging through life..similar to what you described. Not getting ENs met, but just accepting that's the way life is. If I still believed in that old illusion... thought provoking topic..
T

Thanks Twyla for responding. I do feel better today at least from opening up that line of communication. He may not have like hearing what I had to say, but thats where I am in my recovery. Now he knows and has the opportunity to do something if he so chooses. Its his choice. Will he do the work? Only time will tell. Of course, today he is making that effort again and while I appreciate it, I have to wonder if it will just peter out again? Will I have to just keep reminding him for ever and ever? I think I would begin to resent that eventually.<p>So yes, I will fill out my part of the EN questionnare ( I had him do his part, he never asked for mine [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ) and give it to him, I will let him know if he is not making me a priority in his life like he has asked me to. I will make a list of things that I need from him. Maybe he can put it all in his palmpilot to serve as a reminder for him! Okay, I'll try not to let bitterness get the best of me today.<p>I know that its very difficult to change this type of behavior in a person who was never been shown consideration and unconditional love when growing up. Those patterns were set long ago. It takes a lot of effort to retrain yourself but that is what he has to do. I hope he can muster the energy [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] . C [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Wow I was so relieved to read your post as I have been feeling the exact same way! When my H refused to end his EA/PA last year for several months after I found out about it and he kept insisting on divorce, I had to totally hold things together and shield the kids from the damage he was causing. Now here I am a year later and I constantly am re-assessing whether MY needs are being met and if I am doing the right thing staying with him since I was shocked that he could devastate me so completely! I trusted him completely for 15 years before he hit his MLC.I was willing to accept the bad things in our marriage for the sake of commitment and the safety of being married. We are still in counseling because I feel the need to tell him how I have such doubts and I need him to reassure me more. My counselor said I am very vulnerable to a EA at this point- she is right because all the neighbor guys have been looking BETTER to me lately!I worry that my values are getting out of line! Have your read the book Women in Mid-Life Crisis by Sally Conway? It describes the inner turmoil really well. I hope you and I can find our way thru this! lifeismessy

firefly:<p>This thread really hits home with me right now, because I've just started recovery (I THINK my W has too, but with the fog still present, I'm not sure) and I'm already feeling many of the same things you describe, or at least I can see them looming on the horizon. <p>I had an interesting conversation about all this with my IC at work yesterday. I am concerned that I won't recognize when my LB$ is low and I should go to plan B, before it's too low and there's no reason to not DV at that point. She made me feel much better by pointing out the progress I've made in my plan A (though she doesn't use MB terms, it was reassuring that she knew exactly what I was talking about), and that I will KNOW when/if I get to the point where I need to consider B. <p>But the factors that led to my W's As, on both sides of our M, aren't being dealt with sufficiently, PLUS my W has not cut off contact with OM yet, and doesn't believe that she should have to completely (professional contact, at least, which I can't shake the feeling is an excuse to continue personal contact). She doesn't believe in "lies of omission, either, and with those two elephants still in the room, I'm going to remain concerned. <p>But this recovery stuff does take effort, and since I've been focusing on being supportive and understanding of my W's viewpoints (whether I agree with them or not), I think I'm doing all I can to make our M a safe place for her. She's still got a ways to go to "come back to it", obviously, and I won't know if she's fully willing or not until she does, but I'm going to continue as long as I can hold up (without getting all MY ENs met in the interim) and see what happens.<p>I have no illusions. I may be M'd or single within a year, don't know which way it'll go. But I'm ready for whatever happens.<p>...thankfully, I'm too busy to be susceptible to an A myself! ...at least, I THINK so! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Firefly..
You never gave him YOUR ENS???? Why not!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>He can't read your mind!!! More important than meeting ENs is the ability to voice them. They are yours..you own them..let him in on the secret.<p>I had a real hard time with them.."If I have to tell them what they are", "he should know after all this time" "it makes me feel needy" all excuses I used..and then wondered why I was unhappy.<p>For example, I really love and need affection. Now, he isn't the cards and flowers type(which I love), but he makes a big effort to hug and kiss me every morning and when he returns home every night.<p>I love conversation, but hardly have the time to grab it..so now he brings his paper to the kitchen while I'm fixing dinner and reads and we discuss stuff in there.<p>He loves RC..he loves golf..OK, take me to the driving range, bigboy and show me how.<p>You brought up a good point..<p>Now he knows and has the opportunity to do something if he so chooses. Its his choice. Will he do the work? Only time will tell. Of course, today he is making that effort again and while I appreciate it, I have to wonder if it will just peter out again? Will I have to just keep reminding him for ever and ever? I think I would begin to resent that eventually.<p>The same goes for us..now we know and have the opportunity. It's hard to get into wanting to do the work especially after Plan A ect..but this is the make it or break it point. Reminders may have to be done..just like taking the trash out..we're all dealing with humans, n'est pas?<p>So hang in there..couple deep breaths..and give it another go.
T

Twyla made me think of something that's been in the back of my mind for a while now.<p>My W and I worry whether the other will be able to "keep this up" long term. It's annoying to have to remind the other what our needs are, especially if they're not being met. But if I've learned anything from this whole experience, it's that whether we stay M'd or move on with someone else, NOT communicating our needs is NEVER going to work again. Being single is the only way to avoid that responsibility.

lifeismessy, yes thats exactly what I had to do too. I had to be the "strong one", the rock and didn't get to have any of my needs met for 6 months because I had to be there for my kids. No one else was going to be. My IC said something about that today, that while my H has had months to get into recovery, its only been a short time for me (2 mo.) and that now was when I was doing MY work in recovery. Its all very normal according to him to have these change of life feelings now. I guess its good to know that I'm normal and not just going nuts, but today I'm still having a hard day. Its just hard to feel like such a baby when my FWH has now "moved on" and has the expectation that I ought to be doing so too. Thanks for that book recommedation, I'm going to order it off the internet. <p>Twyla, you're right. I was waiting for him to ask me for my EN Q's and he hasn't. It owuld be a sign that he gave a darn about my needs. I'm still playing those little games with myself, thanks for slapping me (softly) and waking me up. I had been having the expectation that NOW finally he would begin to think of me. Those darn expectations! I guess its not that easy when its never something you've done before to any extent.<p>I do feel particularly needy lately and so I need a lot of reassurance that I'm not getting. I know that neediness won't last forever or at least I hope not. I had a very hard session with IC today, and still feel weepy and wrung out. I'm just tired of fighting to keep going. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] C

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I guess now that I have admitted to myself that I might be capable of having an A, then I must also fully realize that I am not a better person than he <hr></blockquote><p>Take it from a WS, you ARE better than he. Thinking about an affair is not the same as having one! There is a line that when crossed is a betrayal. You haven't done that and are in good shape if you communicate and work to strenghten your marriage and own personal issues. I have learned that both these things are required for each party. I am far from out of the woods, but I see how my wife is recovering from the affair, only to see an entire life of issues (her own) to deal with. What causes us to be who we are and how can we improve ourselves and/or live with who and what we are...<p>ack...such insight...I need more coffee....<p>good luck!

Sometimes the hardest thing to do is reassure yourself...especially in recovery. And instead of doing it, we look to our partners to reassure us. Usually the need for reassurance is proportionate to the the amount of control we feel we don't have.<p>Stop for a minute and try this.
Figure out what you need reassureance about. When you get right down and sort it all out you might come up with a list similar to this.

• I feel more reassured when we talk
  I feel reassured when we do something together
  I wish we had more sex
  I wish I had more help with the laundry
  I wish I could take some time off and read for an hour

<p>Look at your list and figure out which things you can take control of.
You want to talk..talk..it doesn't have to be a "relationship" talk..the best one's usually arise from commonplace stuff anyway.<p>You want to be together..go out and get those move tickets, schedule that T time.<p>You want sex..grin and appear at the front door with a can of whipped cream.<p>Need help with the laundry..bring him some stuff to fold while watching TV<p>Need time for yourself..Great..figure out your schedule and grab it.<p>Communication will have to be an integral part of your relationship in order for it to be fulfilling. Doesn't always have to involve "a talk". Looks, gestures, written word..all are forms of communication.<p>Firefly..look at it head on. He does think of you. You know that. You want confirmation from him that he loves you. Instead of just using your ears, use your other senses. Look at him and what he's doing. He's home, he's with you, you asked him to fill out EN's and he did.<p>Know that it doesn't all click at one time. It takes time for both of you..Like losing weight. It took 8 years for me to put on 20 LBS. It's not going to come off this weekend..it's going to take a while..and then there will have to be a maintenance plan of sorts. That's marriage in a nutshell. It took it a few years to get out of control. Shoot, when we were younger we had our "metabolism" and didn't worry about this stuff. But now we have to take stock. There are other factors..
That analogy needs work..think a trip to the beach might help me "gel" it. In the meantime..reassure yourself that you are a loving and capable woman. Look at you achievements (on Saturdays I consider having a clean kitchen a monterous achievementBTW) and take some pleasure in them.
T

Thanks howbre and twyla for your reassurances. Yes, I didn't cross that line into infidelity and thats something to be proud of, I won't punish myself anymore just for thinking about the possibility at a time when I am feeling so in need of reassurance. Even now 9 mo. yesterday ( what an anniversary to be remembering!) there are some days when my emotions get the best of me. <p>Twyla, its amazing how one day can make so much difference in my thoughts. Your response was very on target. I absolutely need more reassurance from my H on the days that he is stressed, has to work alot, etc. On those days I feel like he is withdrawing from me and that scares the *&%$ out of me. Thats when I go into self-protective mode and feel like opting out of this M is the answer. I am having a hard time reassuring myself right now, I need him to give it to me. Those types of issues are what I am working on in IC right now, turning myself into a stronger person who respects myself and sees my own worth. <p>We made up last night after a small arguement about my needs. Today he has shown me he is thinking about me in several ways. He brought me some honey from the farmes market! I do feel reassured when we talk to each other, thats a lot of what ails me, when he is silent. Then who knows what his thoughts might be. Thanks, C

Sorry I didn't get back right away. I'm usually on the recovery board and then get "lost" when I come back to visit.<p>The big problem a lot of us women have is that our identity is so tied up in being a good mom, good wife, good daughter, good friend..we forget to be good to ourselves. We're caretakers for the world until we wear ourselves out. We're raised to be emotional givers..and that's good, but we need to balance that with some time and energy spent on ourselves. That is where we build self confidence and esteem.<p>Think of how many times we reward good behavior in our kids for completing tasks..do we ever think to reward ourselves? There is nothing wrong with saying "OK, I got this and this done, now I'm sitting out in the yard and reading my book for one hour." Of course there are interruptions..(a Mom's bottom goes down on a chair or a toilet seat and I swear alarms sound throughout the house) but you retrain your family that "this hour is my time..we can handle whatever the problem is at 2:00).<p>Making goals and achieving them also helps. I use the 70% method. (I have a tendency to set unreachable goals, so I give myself a chance) If I say I will walk every day this week and end up only walking 4 out of the seven days..I still give myself snaps.<p>Enrolling in a class, taking time to stop on the way home and walk in the park, allowing extra money to go to a weekly manicure or trashy novel just because you work hard and need a break isn't selfish..it's survival.<p>There are a million self esteem books on the market..indulge yourself. Shoot, I'll bet if your kid needed a little extra push, you'd find a way to get it for him..do it for you.
T

Firefly,
If you want to email me, I have some good stuff on building self esteem.
T

twyla, I am up late tonight and got down to the bottom of the postings page and saw your note. I will email you tomorrow. I wasn't on today due to its being Fathers Day. It was as near to perfect a day as I can imagine! After my semi-meltdown this week, things have returned to an even keel. We had a dicussion Friday, turned into an arguement w/ me crying and him mad. Ulimately we made up and talked, finally coming to a new understanding of each other on some issues that have been bothering us both. Thats a good thing! I think thats my pattern, little things and negative thoughts just build up slowly until it comes out in some form or fashion. He gats impatient with me then he realizes once again that he has responsibility for a great deal of what I am experiencing now. He is there for me. I have great hope today. <p>Thanks for your wise words. I know you help so many on this site.Your posts in response to my Q have really gotten me thinking about just how much progress we have been making. Its more than I sometimes am able to see, esp. when I begin to feel down. I hope to eventually be able to understand that a fight is not a disaster, that its ok to argue, it doesn't mean that its the end of the M. I definitely have had self-esteem issues, thats one thing I am working on in IC, doing that is a life-saver for me. Thats one thing I do for myself, the other is getting on here, reading and posting. This place keeps me encouraged and challenged. C

Hon, My worst and I mean absolutely worst trait is "not sweating the small stuff" let it pile up inside me, and then having it spill over like a volcano!!! By then I'm angry, frustated, and ready to kill...or at least LB till I draw blood!<p>What is starting to work is to actually say what is annoying me when it's small stuff. Then I'm calm, and can resolve it. I haven't perfected it..but am getting better.<p>It's hard to see progress when you're in the middle of it..that's why posting here helps me so much..someone else can point out the good stuff I was overlooking. Plus, I think we have a tendancy to dwell on the negative..the stuff that needs to be fixed. Every now and then I make it a point to tell my partner.."Hey, look how far we've come..we're pretty great!"<p>Hang in there hon..glad the weekend turned out well.
T

I have really enjoyed reading both your posts this morning. My wife is going through similar feelings. I wish I could get her to the web and the MB site. But as I am learning, it is her choice, I can not be her daddy! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Time to finish my coffee and start this glorious week! What a wonderful fathers day she and the kids gave me. My wife is wonderful! How foolish I was! <p>Riding the wave in PA with the blinds up!

Twyla, I guess I need a lesson on how to speak aloud that small annoying stuff. For example, I get negative thoughts throughout the day about OW. Generally I can put it out of my mind, tho sometimes not. Do I tell my H this? I usually don't because I don't want to bring up small stuff, I feel like I'm reminding him of her when I don't need to. He says he does not think of her, only when I bring her up. So obviously I'm trying not to do that! I don't want him to think of her! But I do. I can't forget so easily. <p>Its stuff like that that just piles up and I don't know what to do with it. Eventually, all these negative thoughts snowball into a fear-driven case of meltdown. Then afterwards I feel better, but I'd rather nip it in the bud before it gets so out of hand. It would be better for the both of us, no doubt. Any thoughts on how to deal with this? <p>Howbre, I'm so glad that you are so remorseful. That will only help your wife get past this over time. Sometimes if there is something that I believe my H would benefit from reading on here or its something that I would like for him to read, I print it out and then just ask him to read it. I tell him we don't have to discuss what he read if he doesn't want to but would appreciate it if he read it. He usually will and then will discuss it sometime later when we have our R talk. You might try that with your W. My H does not post here, but he knows I do and often I will talk about what I post or other things of interest. In this way, we have been able to get EN Q's answered. and read out of HNHN periodically. I'm glad for that. Enjoy your week. C

Howbre...Tell her that.."How foolish was I"...it helps the BS to know that's where your mind is.<p>Firefly..this is what worked for me..I waited till we had some time alone and said something along the lines of...
"I know it probably confuses you not knowing if you are coming home to a love goddess or a sheiking shrew..this is what seems to set it off. During the day my mind will wonder..sometimes it's purely hurt about a bunch of little things, sometimes it's wondering if this or that happened with the OW, and I let it all pile up inside. I don't want to continually hurt you. I want to focus on us and having a better relationship. What do YOU think I should do when this happens..what would be a better way for me to get reassurance and for you not to feel continually guilty?"<p>We talked it out..his suggestion was to divide stuff up. Pure "did you" questions I saved till the weekend..half the time didn't even need the answers by then. The other stuff seemed easier once we both knew what was going on. His simple.."you doing ok today?" was usually enough to let me know he cared. <p>I urge you to let them know where your head is in a non LB'ing way...and always let them know you are optimistic that it won't always be that way.
T

Wow, this was a great thread. I have been feeling the same way. <p>I'm the big mess too. I don't know if I want to stay or run away. I believe I am a classic WAW but, I am the BS. <p>I'm glad I could read this and get some inspiration.