Does such a thing exist? Yeah, yeah, do something for yourself, relax, go out, have some fun, yada, yada... No, I'm looking for a way to fast forward about two years from now... So very, very sad that we humans only get to spend 70-80 odd years here, and I'm wasting some of the best of mine waiting for something that may never come.<p>I know, I know - you aren't wasting it, you're working on making yourself better, etc. Well... I am working on that, and I have been for many months now. In fact, I'm ready to prove to the world (i.e. female population) that I'm someone worthy of love. But I can't... Because I'm married to a selfish person.<p>I know, I know - I contributed to the problem. So is my penance to live like this? To suffer the indignity of being married to someone for who all I know is right now s****ing someone else??<p>I know, I know - I'm not powerless here - I could end this now if I wanted - I only have myself to look to for an answer as to why I'm here. But is doing it to feel like I'm "doing the right thing" or "to know I did all I could" a good enough reason, when for all I know, I've already met the criteria? What is the criteria? When one's love is gone - I don't think it matters!<p>I know, I know - I've only been in plan B for about 9 days now - chump change. But it was 9 long months prior to that I had to endure. And I see no real movement by her. She seems to have taken this NC quite well - embraced it, really. Sure, she could be busy at work right now... or doing OM. I have no clue, no say, and I shouldn't care - right? Well, the last few days have been harder than "usual" for some reason - maybe withdrawal?? I'd like to think she's suffering a bit too - but she has her toy, her work, a good penchant for sticking her head in the sand, a nice apartment I'm paying for (don't ask), and no real reason to change - even now!<p>As you can tell... I'm venting a bit... it's been a while... being alone allows me to "get in touch with my feelings", I guess - oh goodie! (joking!) Too bad they weren't the good kind. A slow, boiling rage is among them. I know thoughts of just throwing in the towel are premature... but they're hard to ignore right now.<p>I have a couple of logistic items I need to mention to WW... would prefer her to initiate some kind of message I could reply to, but may just have to bite the bullet. One point I make is: "I'm writing a letter to my parents that lets them know we're not together - I'll probably drop it in the mail on the 29th or so (they've been making sounds recently about coming down for a visit); I also mention since our folks do talk" I know this will rock her little world - if anything has kept her in the M the strongest it's been her EN for family support / acceptance / love - and that will be put on this line when they find out. But it is a natural consequence. And I'm not going to hide forever, especially from my parents. I have no interest in telling hers anything - that's her job. But our folks DO talk - and this will quickly spread like wildfire.<p>Anyhow... thanks for listening! (You guys are great cheap therapists!)

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by J.R.:
<strong>Does such a thing exist?.......<p> "I'm writing a letter to my parents that lets them know we're not together - I'll probably drop it in the mail on the 29th or so (they've been making sounds recently about coming down for a visit); I also mention since our folks do talk" I know this will rock her little world - if anything has kept her in the M the strongest it's been her EN for family support / acceptance / love - and that will be put on this line when they find out. But it is a natural consequence. And I'm not going to hide forever, especially from my parents. I have no interest in telling hers anything - that's her job. But our folks DO talk - and this will quickly spread like wildfire.<p>Anyhow... thanks for listening! (You guys are great cheap therapists!)</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Ok JR, you sure do a good vent!!!! LOL! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>come on guy, that was suppose to be a joke. <p>Well what kind of therapy do you expect for 'my 2 cents'? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Alright, here goes remember this is a freebie. I put the part of your post I wanted address. Here lie back on this vinyl lounge lizard couch and give me your ear...... that EN of family support may be just the ticket to help her see where her choices are taking her. Don't be too quick to count on the fact that she is that happy out there. <p>U know the rope and the lines of reasoning but don't 'assume' that all is well in fantasy land. Many a WS come back and tell how awful they felt while we were suffering. <p>For me as the BS I told my WS that I hope SOMEONE was happy with all this misery we were suffering. I told him he had better be happy because I sure was not! WS said he was NOT happy and then I said, then the OW must be happy he said maybe. Well then I turned up the heat and said well since I don't know her why should I allow myself to be miserable so a dumb stranger be happy at my expense and that of our family and friends? She definitely is not worth all that misery. I much rather have that kind of stress for someone I actually like! <p>For some crazy reason, that line stuck in the WS' ear and even made it to his brain. It wormed it's way deep in his subconscience and eventually came out of his mouth. I later saw progress. <p>So my 'freebie' advice is if you gotta do something, make it memorable. Something that will make them go hm...... even when you are not around. <p>Go ahead, you got the time to think about it. <p>L.

JR you are such a strong person. Of course you need to vent. Being 33 I understand where you are coming from. Sometimes I want to say "Can we please stop the b******t and get on with our lives."
Perfectly natural. You sound like a wonderful guy to me. If she doesn't realize what she has she is a FOOL!!!!!
A FOOL I tell you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
Layli

I think you're doing v. well.<p>Just relax, keep yourself busy, go out & meet people, create yourself options.<p>Dont beat yourself up thinking about her. Look at the bright side: Situation could be worse (eg, with children).<p>I beleive the situation now is even tougher for her, especially if you did a good plan A before.<p>It's her choice & out of your hands now - if she comes back: great, if not: sod it.

Gotta passport? Get seasick?<p>I strongly recomend you spill the beans to your family and let the cards fall where they may. If your folks tell her folks, oh well.<p>This HAS to hit the light of day. Don't delay. Answer any questions honestly. If you get contacted by her folks, express your hopes and desires, but refer detailed questions to her.<p>Anything less and you're helping her deceit.<p>BTW, did you send a copy of the letter to OM?<p>WAT

JR ~<p>I think what you are going through is a typical emotional state in plan B. It has it's own kinda roller coaster ride.<p>Mr. Victim is rearing his ugly head and telling your Taker that its time to make yourself happy NOW.<p>Here's the kicker though - Mr. Victim has no place in your Plan B. Why? Because you aren't a victim. At the point where you discovered your wife's affair, you made choices. These choices are why you are where you are now. You could have chosen to do many things, including divorcing your wife. You still can. There aren't any plan B police that will force you to wait for 2 years. Today, you can decide you won't take this anymore, and file for divorce, and come out of Plan B as soon as your decree is signed. But you are chosing something different right now.<p>You aren't ready right now to show any other woman the kind of man you are. Trust me, if you do end up divorced instead of recovered - it takes time, grief, and healing after the decree is actually signed before you are ready. Ask new_beginning who is happily remarried to a great man. She ended up still grieving and processing her old marriage, while trying to establish a new one. I don't think she'd recommend it. (Tell me if I got your POV wrong Sheryl!)<p>You need to work on yourself right now. Plan B is about you too. Getting ready for a very possible divorce does NOT mean dating. It still means becoming the best possible you that you can be.<p>You really don't have to do the whole 2 years - its your choice how long you want to wait. But rushing out right now to change what you are doing won't benefit YOU.<p>Boot out Mr. Victim, and tell Mr. Taker that you ARE doing what is best for you right now.<p>And, if you are in Plan B, I suggest that you do NOT contact your wife re telling family. No contact means no contact. You see, I wonder if your motivation is to stir the pot and see if she has changed towards you a bit.<p>One of the most frustrating parts of plan B is when the WS just goes on about their lives. I think alot of people go into plan B with the half-expectation that it won't be long before their WS is banging on their doorstep saying "I wanna come home!" When that doesn't happen - the BS wants to stick their neck out and poke to see what happens.<p>This is what happens when your motivations are focused on trying to force a solution and trying to get a specific reaction from your spouse. <p>Let her go. Work on you. No dating! This is your life and these are your choices. Only YOU have to look back at yourself in the mirror for the rest of your life. So make sure your decisions are good ones, not taker-driven selfish ones.<p>Feel better after that temper tantrum?

ahhh [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] wonderful words from Bramblerose. Read them again, k? I can't top that.<p>All I can tell you is remember my *ongoing* story. Affairs don't last. Your W's life is probably not so wonderful in fantasyland. XH tells me the A became rocky soon after I went to PLan B, and REAL rocky after the D. His A survived only 2 months (60 days!!!) past the D-finalization.<p>If he hadn't rushed 100 mph into D, I would have just hit my 13-month mark in doing exactly what you're doing. 1 month flipping out [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] , 8 months Plan A, 4 months Plan B.<p>Give it some time, JR. You have plenty of time to "prove yourself" to the rest of the {female} world when the time is right. You've already proven it to the females on this forum!! Don't WE count??? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

BR is awesome! WOW!<p>Listen to her JR ... she's speaking with love and authority!<p>Pep [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

JR<p>Thanks for your vent, it put into words almost exactly what I am feeling. Very articulate. I was having these same thoughts just this morning. <p>I too am tired. Tired of the snooping, of the wondering, waiting, looking, thinking, visions of THEM together. My taker is very active at times, but from this BB i have learned (I don't remember where) that my taker is trying to be resentful and create an anger against her and the whole situation. Probably to be defensive and block out some pain.<p>What the others have said is good excellent 2cent stuff, THANKS ALL [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] JR try to internalize it.<p>A thank you to ALL. For me, everytime I come here I read something that applies in some way and helps keep a level head. Your post did that too. We are not alone in all of theses types of feelings and sharing experiences makes 2cents worth a lot more.<p>To say "let it go" means accepting what is happening and that there is a very real possibility of it being over. (I say this as much to myself as to anyone else.) To me this acceptance means that if WS pines away missing me, fine. If not, that's fine too! You, we, have put our lives on hold, spending time looking, watching, waiting, HOPING. Time for some action, good, bad, or indiffernet, action, such as the NC. Good for you, your doing it. Consider her, and whatever else has happened behind you now, look forward, your a good person and will be sharing it with others (agree, no dating yet, but you don't have to be dating or "seeing" someone to be a good person) and if she's going to be one of them....<p>I read here somewhere that short term pain would be better than long term suffering. So tell your parents, stay positive, as said above, let it fall where it may...<p>A soon to be Plan Ber,
Take care,
DRS

JR,<p>You have talent for putting into words your thoughts and feeling that reflect not only where you are, but also others on this board, including me.<p>The feeling of wanting to fast forward 2 years is understandable. Life is short. BR is so on target, there will be a time, but not now. Unfortunately there is no way to avoid going through literally what you have to go through. If the process is short circuited, then we never grow, and are bound to repeat the same mistakes and have the same pain again. This I know from personal experience.<p>In my case, I was headed for plan b, but additional information came to me that I knew that I had to distance myself from my WH by legal separation. In some ways having resolution to the direction my M was going, feels comforting. But a big part of me is really sad. This is not the way I wanted this to end up, but know in my heart that I have to let go.<p>So, in way, be thankful that you are still in plan B, that there is still hope for your M.<p>God Bless,<p>D.
[img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Is there ANYTHING smoother than a new Bonnie Raitt CD? If there is ... I don't know what! Mr. Pepper just bought me her latest offering: SILVER LINING.<p>Second cut: I CAN'T HELP YOU NOW<p>"Where were you when I was
Fallin' down - buzzin' round your heart
Why'd you wait 'til I was movin' on
To come out of the dark<p>To say I'm what you need
And you could spend your life with me<p>Chorus<p>Well I can't help you now
(Sorry baby, I can't help you)
No, I can't help you now
(Keep away, I've fallen in love)
Maybe there was a time
But sometimes time runs out
And I can't help you now<p>Forty days since I stopped
Countin' the days and countin' the ways I loved you
Good long while since I found
Good enough reason to stop believin' that you
Are what I really want
And now that you do, I don't<p>Repeat Chorus<p>Now you say I'm the one you need
And you could spend your life with me
But I can't help you, no<p>I can't help you now ...<p>Baby there was a time
And I wish I could somehow
But I can't help you
Can't help you now. "<p>Plan B theme song.<p>Pepper
[img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ June 15, 2002: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</p>

SILVER LINING ... By Bonnie Raitt<p>cut 12 WOUNDED HEART<p>Wounded heart
I cannot save you from yourself
Though I wanted to be brave
It never helps
'Cause your trouble's like a flood
Raging through your veins
And no amount of love's enough
To end the pain<p>Tenderness and time can heal
A right gone wrong
But the anger that you feel
Goes on and on
And it's not enough to know
That I love you still
So I'll take my heart and go
For I've had my fill<p>If you listen you can hear
The angels' wings
Up above our head so near
They are hovering
Waiting to reach out for love
When it falls apart
When it cannot rise above
A wounded heart<p>When it cannot rise above
A wounded heart<p>~~~~~ <sigh> ~~~~~<p>Pepper<p> [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

I don't know....but I do have an old one NICK OF TIME! It's great! I'll have to check out the new one.

Pepper:<p>Good stuff! I wish my W would be interested in that kind of tone in lyrics. No, she likes Garbage, who my daughter is crazy about. Ever listen to their lyrics? I cringe whenever she plays this stuff. ALL of their music seems to be very depressing to me. It's all very, very down on relationships. Nothing positive, so far as I can tell.<p>Try this:<p>"Till the day I die" - Garbage<p>I will love you till the day that I die
I will love you till the day that I die<p>You walked into the room
The sun hit my eyes
The force you struck me down caught me by surprise
You sprung the mojo and it worked like a charm
I felt invincible with you in my arms<p>I must confess it can feel good to feel pain
Like breaking waves or getting caught in the rain
Playing those games cause we had nothing to do
I was oblivious I was losing to you<p>I will love you till the day that I die
I will love you till the day that I die
I will love you till the day that I die
I will love you till the day that I die<p>Holy Jesus
Holy rock’n’roll
The more I gave to you the more you grew bored
And making love became the waging of war
No peace
No tenderness
No fun anymore<p>I will love you till the day that I die
I will love you till the day that I die
I will love you till the day that I die
I will love you till the day that I die<p>I dreamt that I called out your name
You turned your face to me and started to say
Something so beautiful it hurt deep inside
So I will love you till the day that I die<p>Farewell
Farewell
I'm sure gonna leave you (I will love you till the day that I die)
Farewell
Farewell
I'm sure gonna leave you (I will love you till the day that I die)
Farewell
Farewell (I will love you till the day that I die)
I'm sure gonna leave you (I will love you till the day that I die)
Farewell
Farewell (I will love you till the day that I die)
I'm sure gonna leave you (I will love you till the day that I die)
Farewell
Farewell (I will love you till the day that I die)
I'm sure gonna leave you (I will love you till the day that I die)
Farewell
Farewell (I will love you till the day that I die)
I'm sure gonna leave you

How many more times am I going to cheer after reading a Bramble Rose post. You are awesome, BR.<p>JR, you have been given the BEST advice there is .... your withdrawal is trying to play tricks with your mind and heart. Read this thread whenever you find yourself digging for reasons to not follow the laid out Plan. <p>Best,
Jo

First of all, thank you all... I'm always amazed at the support here!<p>O, you do have a way with words now, dontcha? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I've had a few memorable moments recently, actually! I really do expect to get my chance at a few more.<p>layli, I'm blushing! Yes, these WS are the ultimate time-wasters... not just the BS's - but their own. It's like they've fallen in love with their bad feelings.<p>Nick, I hope my Plan A is remembered for what it was - it'll be harder for her to do revisionism on that, although it seems anything is possible for most WS.<p>Dave, I so totally agree about light of day. I'd actually love for this to "come out" at her workplace too, but it's too dangerous for me to be the one to spill the beans there. As for sending a copy of the letter to OM - rats, I knew there was something I forgot to ask Steve about! I was kind of holding back a bit, given that I've already confronted the guy - continued attempts at contacting him may come across as me being a cry baby, and it would be an infinite LB for WW (I felt like I had to Plan A my butt off for 3 months to recover from "the confrontation".)<p>BR, wow! As usual you're insight is right on. My thought about letting her know I'm sending a letter to my parents isn't so much to see what she's up to or get a reaction - it's more a self-preservation thing. I know having it just sprung on her (i.e. her parents calling her up and saying what the h*** is going on?) would be a major LB, and it would seem consistent that I should still avoid LB'ing, even in Plan B. I guess the question becomes what's best (for me) - the LB factor or holding the NC to perfection?<p>As for "processing" this stuff. Yes, I've got to do that, and I can yet again see the value in Plan B for that (thank you Harleys!). My concern isn't so much being impatient and forcing an outcome... it's whether my LB$ can sustain. I realize that Plan B should help protect the LB$. However, lately it's taken MORE of a hit while in Plan B... my theory is that without her around, I'm more willing to "feel" my long bottled resentment, since I don't have to fear LB'ing. I guess that's a good thing. Can I "get it out of the way" by the time she comes around? I don't know... changing gears back into Plan A seems like a hard thing right now. But first things first, one step at a time, don't put the cart before the horse.<p>Faith, "Your W's life is probably not so wonderful in fantasyland" - this seems about right - even in her last e-mail she admits that she's found disappointment everywhere she's turned - that's got to include OM. She has yet to realize that her disappointments are self-generated, and she has no-one to blame but herself for a large part of it. I think the time alone will help that... things won't "feel better" in her heart unless she either grows, or somehow manages to become even more callous / lost (in which case good riddence).<p>Pepper, very good song choice... Here's another song... I can be a sarcastic guy sometimes (in a good natured way)... this song SPEAKS to me [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] , thanks Tom Petty<p>I hope you never fall in love
Hope you never get your heart broken
I hope you never fall in love with somebody like you<p>I hope you never give a damn
Hope you never lose your perspective
I hope you never fall in love with somebody like you<p>And I wish you well
I wish you everything - and more
Forgive my ignorance
I was starting to ramble on and on
Starting to ramble on and on<p>I hope you never need no-one
Hope you treasure your independence
I hope you never fall in love with somebody like you<p>And I wish you well
I wish you everything - and more
Forgive my ignorance
I was starting to ramble on and on
Starting to ramble on and on<p>I hope you never give a damn
Hope you never get your heart broken
I hope you never fall in love with somebody like you
I hope you never fall in love with somebody like you<p>
DRS, "Tired of the snooping, of the wondering, waiting, looking, thinking, visions of THEM together" I found that this got worse for me after starting Plan B... but it's getting better. I feel like if I get over a hump here, I can start to live a far more "normal" life. A part of me subconsciously fears that, probably, since it might mean I lose my desire to be M.<p>WGTT, sorry to see your situation is so difficult. If there is an up-side, it might be that at least you're finding some clarity... something can be said for that!<p>2long, now I know why they're called Garbage [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] WW sure likes her Alanis Morrisette and Dido too... can whip her into a frenzy, although I think she was coming to understand that's all they are - songs.<p>Jo, I really do want to follow my Plan... but as even Steve admits, there will be some inevitable contact... my goal is to manage it, keep it minimal and all business... kind of the way described in "Love Must Be Tough." I may still find myself an intermediary too.<p>
Anyhow, if there's anyone else with Plan B experience, please feel free to add responses to my questions above...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Anyhow, if there's anyone else with Plan B experience, please feel free to add responses to my questions above... <hr></blockquote><p>Well...J.R., I probably can't speak from experience, since I have been "officially" in Plan B for just 8 days. But then again, the last contact 8 days ago was the only one for 8 days before that. And that conversation that she initiated by phone was just to ask me if I had received the "papers" yet.<p>I can pretty well say that I know what you are going through. My biggest hurdle right now is that I can look out my window and see where she is staying. If she is gone at odd times, it gets to me. I gotta let it quit doing that. But then again, I see her "home" with parents a lot (and it's Sat Nite, and she's there), so that kind of comforts me.<p>I replied over on Plan A/B board to a post you had made earlier this morning and told you how what you had said helped me get through the day. Strength is in numbers, my man, always, and WE HAVE THE NUMBERS HERE! We are all here for a common purpose. That in itself speaks wonders.<p>I have already been "served", so I am a probably a little bit more "ancy" than most. And like you said, she "seems" to be taking it well. "Seems" is the BIG word, here. "Seems" is only what we want it to be. For every negative thing I see, if I reach down deep enough, I can come up with a positive, too. (Isn't that sort of "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"?) Try to remember, and this may not be of comfort, but you are in a "holding pattern". Sure, we want this bird on the ground, but we also want it down when the time is right. Too early, or too late, we crash. And neither of us wants to do that.<p>Even though it seems to me at times that she is getting exactly what she wants, someone or something verifies to me that she is miserable too. I had mentioned that over in my thread. As to the negative of her seeming to be taking this well by not even offering to contact me, one of the positive aspects of this I learned today. (Actually, thought of). Just up the road a couple of miles, her Mom has an empty house, next door to WW's sister. I am thinking....Hmmmmm....after 14 years of being on her own, why isn't she THERE? Why is she still staying at parents house? Because subconsciouly she is closer to me, maybe? Because she still needs the "connection"?<p>Or maybe it's because she can still come here when I am gone to work, and get that "sensation" she needs without having to admit it to me? Well...the thing she doesn't know, yet, but I am sure she will find out Monday morning when I am quite sure she will stop in after I am already gone to work, is that her key will no longer work. Man...I am dreading that. T-Minus 2 days and counting. 5,4,3,2,1 -- We have ballistic liftoff!<p>Big chance I am taking. Especially since we are already in the process of Dv. That would really p*** her off, but since that is something she would NEVER think I would do in a million years, I really can't judge what her normal reaction, to my "unusual" action will be. But I'm gonna find out.<p>I'm probably not one to talk, but hold your pattern. I am doing my best. I saw on Caller ID where she had called earlier today (She must not have looked to see if I was here), and I so very desperately wanted to return the call. But I didn't. Since I didn't do it that time and survived, I know I can do it again. Mostly because I NEED to. Any other thing would be me compromising myself. I will not let her cause me to do that. I control that. And there WILL come the time that she sees that.<p>I, too, thought I was ready to give up. But then I realized that giving up was not the thing. I had just accepted the fact that I had reached the point where I could live with it either way. There still is a strong preference as to which way I want it, but I will be OK no matter what. So...in essence...I have everything to gain, and nothing to lose. Because I don't want what I have now. And that's not so bad. The outlook is always brighter that way.<p>hcii

Hi JR ~<p>Ok, I'm not really buying into your explanation - although I am sure you sincerely believe what you are writing.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>My thought about letting her know I'm sending a letter to my parents isn't so much to see what she's up to or get a reaction - it's more a self-preservation thing. I know having it just sprung on her (i.e. her parents calling her up and saying what the h*** is going on?) would be a major LB, and it would seem consistent that I should still avoid LB'ing, even in Plan B. I guess the question becomes what's best (for me) - the LB factor or holding the NC to perfection?<hr></blockquote><p>If you were honestly just fessing up to your parents WITHOUT the thought and hope that they'd would tell her parents and add pressure....then why can't you just sit down and say: Mom and Dad, I am seperated, this is why, and here is my plan, please support me in this. Then ask them not to run to her parents with this tale.<p>IF you feel that her parents also need to know, and your motive really ISN'T to stir the pot, then you do the same with them. You sit them down and say: FIL and MIL, I love your daughter with all my heart. We are seperated, here's why, here is my plan to try and rescue our marriage, please support me by doing or not doing XYZ.<p>But, since I do think, especially given the fact that your Plan B is draining your LoveBank (more on this in a sec) that your motive is to try to add more pressure to your wife. So you are telling your parents HOPING they blab to her parents, and you are trying to duck responsiblity for the whole thing by sending her a letter of "warning". Your way of doing it is an LB for sure.<p>This is NOT plan B. This is manipulation.<p>Why is your plan B draining your lovebank? Because you went into it with the expectation that once you stopped meeting needs, and some consequences started occuring, that your wife would come running back saying: Wait..no...stop..I didn't mean it, please don't cut me off! <p>And when, each day, she goes on with her life instead of reacting to your Plan B, it drains your love bank because her lack of your desired reaction is a LB to you.<p>This is why motivations are SO crucial. The same action with different motivations can be sooooo different in outcomes!<p>Your motivation (understandabley) in Plan B, was to get her to react (manipulation and an attempt to force her to choose on your timeline). Your motivation NEEDS to be one of boundary drawing for self-preservation.<p>In order to survive plan B, you have GOT to work on acceptance, on letting go, and on truely focusing on yourself. Otherwise, it will eat you alive like it is doing now.<p>You need to play it straight with everyone in your life. If family deserves to know the truth, tell them. Don't try to play games or duck responsbility.<p>Family knowledge IS one of the consequences of having an affair and separating with your husband. That's her problem. I honestly don't see how telling her lessens or improves anything. You haven't given a reason for contacting her. If you are worried about LBing her by telling, then DON'T TELL. Don't play games. If you feel family HAS to know, tell, and then let them handle their relationships with her. Her relationships with other family members is her responsbility and her problem. But if you tell, writing her a letter will not change the LB.<p>Personally, I think you tell, but you don't contact her. This is her problem. I think you play it straight up. You can't avoid ALL LBs in Plan A, much less Plan B. Especially when dealing with a selfish WS whose needs can NOT be met reasonably. You still ahve to live your life.<p>So, lets bring the focus back to you and away from what she is doing or not doing with her life.<p>You need to be getting on with your life - really and truely. Acceptance and letting go are the issues you need to focus on. <p>IF she comes back to you, it won't be on your time schedule, it will be hers. So rather than drive yourself nuts, focus on what you should be doing right now for you!

BR: Ok, I'm not really buying into your explanation <p>JR: Aww... pu-lease!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>BR: If you were honestly just fessing up to your parents WITHOUT the thought and hope that they'd would tell her parents and add pressure....then why can't you just sit down and say: Mom and Dad, I am seperated, this is why, and here is my plan, please support me in this. Then ask them not to run to her parents with this tale.<p>JR: That's exactly my plan, less telling them what I think they should do... they're adults, and they do have a relationship with my in-laws. For them to hide from them... seems to be asking them to participate in a level of dishonesty, even if by omission. NOTE: That isn't to say I WANT them to talk... but I realize I can't control anything that goes on back home. My only real goal (honestly) is to finally "get honest" with them and use their support. I can't rely on any other effect or influence on WW - because it could be "good" or "bad" - I just don't know, and right now, I don't care all that much - this is for me.<p>BR: But, since I do think, especially given the fact that your Plan B is draining your LoveBank (more on this in a sec) that your motive is to try to add more pressure to your wife. So you are telling your parents HOPING they blab to her parents, and you are trying to duck responsiblity for the whole thing by sending her a letter of "warning". Your way of doing it is an LB for sure.<p>JR: Maybe I wasn't so clear... my LB$ continues to drain, as is normal I think. It has nothing to do with a hidden motive, it has to do with the simple fact of where I sit right now. I honestly don't think my telling my parents, her parents, or anyone is really going to solve anything. Talking to mine will give me another leg of support. As for a "warning" - it was suggested by IC/MC too - not sure if she said it based on being "in tune" with WW or what. In any case, WW did ask me explicitly to give her a couple of weeks before I told my parents (this was before Plan B started) - and I agreed (rightly or wrongly is moot now). So really, the main motivation is simply to be honest.<p>BR: And when, each day, she goes on with her life instead of reacting to your Plan B, it drains your love bank because her lack of your desired reaction is a LB to you.<p>JR: To be fair, my LB$ would be draining at least as much sitting there with her in a long Plan A. My main drain right now is based on resentment over everything - not an expectation. I went into Plan B because I had honestly come to a point in my life where I AM truly prepared to accept any outcome. I couldn't do it otherwise. Frankly, I stayed in Plan A for 3 months longer than I had originally intended, not because I was expecting it to make her change - but because I had more gas than I expected, and Steve helped me with that. But enough time had passed to make me ready - for anything. That doesn't mean I'm happy about it. In my last session, Steve admitted - "you won't feel happy" (all the time). That's really what I'm referring to when talking about my LB$ drain. It will go down to zero eventually - as is in the Plan we all know.<p>BR: In order to survive plan B, you have GOT to work on acceptance, on letting go, and on truely focusing on yourself. Otherwise, it will eat you alive like it is doing now.<p>JR: Certainly... but it also seems to be a learning process to get there. It is very different from Plan A, at least speaking from my shoes. As such, I do need to learn new skills, coping techniques, etc. I wouldn't say I'm being eaten alive right now... simply frustrated and tired. I vent now and then - sometimes more spectacularly than others! It's part of my "processing" of my anger and resentment - I really have found ways to deal with it that have been constructive and have allowed me to avoid LB's during Plan A. If you look at my posts from last October, November, December - now that was someone being eaten alive!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>BR: You need to play it straight with everyone in your life. If family deserves to know the truth, tell them. Don't try to play games or duck responsbility.<p>JR: Oh absolutely! And with the help of MB and Plan A, I can let them know that I have grown and learned about my role in the degredation of the M - and that I'm equipping myself to succeed for the future.<p>BR: You haven't given a reason for contacting her.<p>JR: In last session with Steve, he admitted himself that absolutely no contact is rarely practical. There continues to be logistical things to deal with - e.g. finances, etc. Yes, in a perfect world I might have totally arranged everything beforehand... but I'm new to this... I am very successfully dealing with NC so far. She sent me one paniced e-mail the day after I left, plus another logistical one later. I had a brief "business only" reply to the logistical one. That's been it. I've decided I won't initiate any e-mails to her, even if for logistical reasons, but I will reply, if appropriate - business only. That was a Steve recommendation (i.e. evaluating each on a case by case basis for whether it warrants a reply).<p>BR: If you are worried about LBing her by telling, then DON'T TELL. Don't play games.<p>JR: Hmm, my bigger worry would be in NOT telling her, at least in passing. Not as a threat, not as a coercion... just a simple statement of fact. She can either see it as an act of honesty to be valued, or as something negative. If it's negative, I doubt it would have been my telling her beforehand - but the act itself. Just up and doing the act itself would result in the same negative reaction in that case.<p>BR: If you feel family HAS to know, tell, and then let them handle their relationships with her. Her relationships with other family members is her responsbility and her problem. But if you tell, writing her a letter will not change the LB.<p>JR: Yes, she needs to talk to her own family. I will NOT, repeat NOT, be initiating any conversations with them on the topic. IF they contact me... I will be honest but for any details that dive too far into it, I will respectfully defer for her to answer. I wouldn't be writing her a letter about it, either. It would literally be this: "I'm writing a letter to my parents that lets them know we're no longer together - I'll probably drop it in the mail in the next couple of weeks or so (they've been making sounds recently about coming down for a visit)"<p>BR: Personally, I think you tell, but you don't contact her. This is her problem. I think you play it straight up. You can't avoid ALL LBs in Plan A, much less Plan B. Especially when dealing with a selfish WS whose needs can NOT be met reasonably. You still ahve to live your life.<p>JR: I guess this is where we'll just have to agree to disagree! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] In knowing her (well), the situation, feedback from IC/MC and Steve... I think I need to say something, even if just 2 sentences, like I provided above. It's not overly personal or meeting her EN's - just a simple statement of fact, likely tacked onto a few other sundry logistic items, next time I feel it necessary to reply to something. But I will think about what you're saying... maybe once I sleep on it, it will sink into the grey matter some more. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>BR: So, lets bring the focus back to you and away from what she is doing or not doing with her life.<p>JR: I realize this current bout of withdrawal is temporary. I started Plan B very strongly, had a few bad days this week, and am already starting to feel better again. It will be up and down a bit - I realize that. But I do feel far more equipped to deal with things, largely because I am working off of a plan, and I have help in that greater Plan from many others, such as yourself! (not to mention Steve!)<p>BR: You need to be getting on with your life - really and truely. Acceptance and letting go are the issues you need to focus on.<p>JR: Intellectually, I'm all over that. As I said above, I couldn't be here in Plan B today if I couldn't truly be prepared to lose my M. I very well might. But the emotions - they be strong, aye!<p>[ June 15, 2002: Message edited by: J.R. ]</p>

Hi BR,<p>Well, your thought grenade kind of blew for me as I was driving to the video store tonight...<p>Thinking about WHY I feel a need to tell her that I'm going to do something... anything...<p>In a Plan A mind-set, that makes perfect sense, right? I mean, doing something like that is in a sense meeting an EN of hers... a need for honesty and openness. Well, that's perfect... for Plan A.<p>In Plan B, however, I should not be meeting any of her EN's. Plain and simple. Yes, there may be negative side-effects, but the overarching premise should be to remove all EN meeting.<p>My mind-set has been very much in Plan A for so long, I've kind of lost sight of that premise that should now drive me for the remainder of Plan B. Even without Plan A / B, my gut instinct is to behave by trying to please - anyone and everyone, really - that's just what I do [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . So although it makes perfect sense to me to give her some forewarning... it isn't what I should be doing in a "by the book" Plan B... I realize that now, looked at from the EN perspective.<p>However... we all realize that nothing is black and white, and there is sometimes some customization of the Plans. Steve noted how it's like a spectrum, Plan A at one end, Plan B at the other. We need to work within the context of what makes sense for us, based on really, truly knowing the mind and hearts of our WS's (a line from DeWayne, I believe).<p>So I will think about it some more... you definitely made me stop and think hard about this!!<p>hcii: Sure, we want this bird on the ground, but we also want it down when the time is right. Too early, or too late, we crash. And neither of us wants to do that.<p>JR: Well put. In fact, I asked Steve, "What do you suggest if WW calls me up making sounds like she's wanting reconciliation." His response: "Get her to call me. Or your MC. But if she's serious, she'll be happy to do it." And from there, I think he's got a great handle on seeing what's really in their hearts.<p>hcii: Well...the thing she doesn't know, yet, but I am sure she will find out Monday morning when I am quite sure she will stop in after I am already gone to work, is that her key will no longer work.<p>JR: Natural consequences. Don't feel bad. Reality check.<p>I think you're doing fine, hcii. It is good to share as things keep changing, keep moving forward. I think we're so much better off than most people who bumble their way through life with no direction. Keeping in mind that there's a greater purpose here - to become better people, no matter what - is what's kept me going for so very long.<p>[ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: J.R. ]</p>