I'm sitting here wondering what it takes to meet the ENs of a WS who claims he's having an affair just because it's fun.<p>He told me I'm "boring." Well, I'm not sure how to deal well with this... of course, I'd be boring to him in this situation. He's off, on his own, not accountable to anyone, the only obligation he has to me and this family is via his paycheck. I resent that. <p>He tells me he's concerned about the family, but he doesn't want to come by because I can't relax around him. He does upset me so... wearing expensive stuff from his girlfriend, hickeys on his neck, etc. Not good for me to see, bad example for our 4 daughters! <p>He tells me he's not in love with her, she's just "fun". She's married herself and her husband seems to buy in on this!<p>Not to mention, he lied to me for so long that I don't believe him one bit when he tells me anything! Yes... sigh... I'm not doing well in this situation right now. <p>He's just told me to shut up and deal with it. Like I'm supposed to just be happy because I now know the truth and the truth is supposed to make everything better. He's 44 years old and is behaving so much like a 16 year old these days!<p>This affair is a least a year long, I found out in March and he's been gone since then. I do care very much about him, and he just thinks we have to do things "my way" in order to reconcile this marriage... which isn't true... Just told him no affair.<p>Thanks forletting me vent here. Any responders would be appreciated.

bumping for some support for bluekeys....<p>Pasting the link to her other thread for more info:<p>bluekeys at a loss<p>bluekeys, I'm not sure if this makes you feel any better, and I'm sure you've read this if you've been lurking, but your H is acting very typical. It is VERY unfair - the way he is behaving - and VERY difficult to Plan A when he is behaving that way. <p>I'd like to recommend, IMO, that you back WAY off in any relationship talk, counseling talk, or affair talk. He will NOT agree with you while he is "having fun" with OW, or if he feels like you are pressuring him. He needs some time to feel comfortable around you and the family, without having to look in the mirror.<p>This SEEMS like enabling, but it is simply giving him some space and time, allowing him to think for himself, and is only temporary. You are armed with Plan B somewhere down the road, which will take away anything you are doing for him. Plan B will take the icing off his cake, WHICH is what he is enjoying right now.<p>Have you read about the 180's on here? I can dig that up and put it here for you. It has some value in giving the BS things to do and not do - in order to let the WS live with their decisions, and in order for the BS to change some habits.<p>I believe you were asking about counseling. Ask him to join you, but don't beg. You can go for yourself. We can not stress enough that Plan A is primarily for YOU... can be a very stressful time for YOU... but can also be a wonderful time of growth, learning, and taking care of YOU.<p>Hang in there!!! We're here for ya, best we can!

Faith, Thanks again...<p>It is hard here to go quickly into Plan B. There is a twist to this situation...<p>He screwed up our finances soooooooo badly before leaving. He just gave up managing money and got into a reckless spending phase for about six months. Got to the point he put mortgage payments on our joint Visa!! Imagine that intelligent money management plan... (sorry for the sarcasm, but that bites so much that he did stuff like that).<p>We did split up bills equitably, and he is giving me damned good financial support, but he just doesn't get why I need to also talk to him. I AM making financial decisions on his behalf. Here's a good overview of the scenario:<p>Long and short of it is, during his absence, we've had a number of emergenices here: we're on our own well and the pump died. $600 right off the bat a week after he left--he actually blamed ME for breaking the pump! LIke I would want to live without water... hmm, I do like to brush and flush occassionally!!<p>Then, we had a minor fire in our chimney... $500 insurance deductible. He left with the mortgage in arrears by a month, which I did fix and bring up to date even though I didn't ask for another penny. He also left the orthodonist in arrears (we have TWO kids in ortho treatment), I brought that up to date with additional funds added to each monthly payment. He is terribly far behind on some of his obligations... creditors calling ME for some of HIS personal stuff (like own credit cards), even though I am not responsible for those.<p>Then, to add insult to injury, he FORGOT to pay the auto insurance, which was his obligation. (Mine included house payment, medical and dental, my own credit cards, car payment, and taking kids). Well, my 16 year had an accident. We're in a state that requires financial responsibility. We're now being sued.<p>I am now refinancing the house on his behalf. <p>Which, is a good thing and a bad thing. I lower the mortgage payment, get the loan on MY credit (which is good and not very damaged because of his mistakes), and a lower rate. But, it isn't money that will be well spent. It will be used to cover his mistakes...<p>Aghghghggh! That's how I spell frustration [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
I need to keep after him about money! And he complains... I try to be as nice as possible to explain the situation, provide him with balance sheets at the end of each month to account for what I spend on the kids and house. WE both make good incomes. Not riches, not Bill Gates or Donald Trump. But, in reality... we should NOT be in the hole we are. I am slowly digging us out of that, and it's so hard not to resent it.<p>Fortunately, we did keep and maintain separate bank accounts and credit ratings in our marriage. 99% of the financial mess was of his doing, out of his obligations. So, I only really took over one of his major obligations--mortgage. <p>It's so frustrating. I need to keep in constant contact with him because of the transportation/money situation. I'm down to one car for now because of the one the 16 year old totalled, and I need him to provide me with as much info as possible for refi (pay stubs, employment verification, bank statements, etc. and keep him up to date about the closing and attorney appointments concerning our D's accident). He just seems to think I'm his slave. Then he comes over and b's about the house being messy!! What a pain. I work full time, run around with the kids, clean up our financial nightmare, got really sick with "female plumbing" problems <G> and the guy thinks because he can keep an 800 SQ apartment squeaky clean, that this house should be too!!<p>Oh.... my tongue is being bitten until it bleeds... anyone got a mouth tourniquet? LOL here.<p>To add insult to injury, I'm paying for his cell phone use because we have a family plan... and there's gal pal calls there. <p>Ok, I've vented more. Thanks.<p>And, I will review your links. But, have not heard about 180s. Did a quick search, but haven't come up with anything. CAn you provide link?<p>[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: bluekeys ]</p>

Bluekeys,<p>I am so sorry for you...to be honest I find your post and your husbands interactions sad and somewhat chilling...<p>There is in my opinion quite some underlying anger and vindictiveness in his explainations of his affair...not to mention the cruelity it is laced with the upmost disrespect....in my opinion it does not sound like "fogese" but someone lashing out. <p>What type of communication have the two of you experienced in your past...is this totally new or has he always acted like a two year old...<p>It is painful to hear and see the one person you love now turn to another for love...but this guy is turning to the epitomy of shallowness and using multiple persons emotions at their expense...<p>While I do believe that you can look at his needs that need met..I do not believe for one minute that you should tolerate such blatant disrespect from him...nor should your children be exposed to a juvinile with hickeys...<p>As difficult as it is to hear there is some shadow of understanding for the bs when a wh talks of connecting with someone emotionally and all that other blah blah blah talk of fog...but this guy is out there with only immature stuff of "it's fun and you're boring....what is in this guy that makes him just want to hurt for no better reasons than this....Even his abuse of the money issues is really a serious thing that puts his own children at the risk of financial vulnerability.....<p>I agree with not talking relationship stuff with him as he apparantly has NO clue as to what is involved in a mature and nurturing relationship with you or TOW...(not suggesting I hope he finds out)<p>When he starts in on how boring you are or how much fun he is having..say nothing and walk away..if on the phone say I'm sorry but I really have to go now...do not power struggle with him and attempt to drag that type of crap on....
Those mam are fighting words...and difficult not to bite at the bait he is dangling...but don't you do it...<p>Two year olds learn fast that if you ignore them...they will have to do something else to get your attention..and you need to find the spot that the only attention from him you are interested in is concrete, tangable issues that with in your marriage need addressed...boring and fun are just to nebulous to address and he is more than welcome to discuss ways for you to be less boring...<p>He needs to have access to the children for his sake...perhaps he can take for the weekend as I am sure his 'fun" OW is not so interested in babysitting...(don't misunderstand me that I want her involved with them)...just the reality that he is a dad..and being a dad is sometimes not ALL fun..and sometimes it's downright puts a damper on the party....<p>think long about how he has been in the past...what brought on all these changes...or is this the real him....<p>plan A for you and you alone....
Don't get sucked into believing his stuff for one minute..for even boring people don't deserve to be treated cruelly..
I hope that my meaning is not lost in my post...I tell you this not to upset you..but perhaps you will begin to see the strength you have to be treated with respect....
peace to you bluekeys....and your home...
ARK

Ark,<p>Thanks for the kind post.<p>Communication before the OW was usually pretty good. Not perfect, but we usually both tried. We'd call each other when problems cropped up, we discussed a lot of things from politics to kids. But then he completely withdrew about the time OW showed up, stating he was "unhappy." I'd ask how he was, tried to talk to him, tried to see what I could do, cut back on my work and studies to attempt to spend time with him... the whole enchilada. Nothing worked. I'm sure he saw that as pressure, but it was pretty difficult. We both had pretty busy lives with work, kids, house, we both took classes, bills... yada yada yada.<p>When he was still here, we began to have some terrible arguments. Nothing violent, but nothing like we ever had before. Horrible, vicious. I cried nearly every night for months just coming home. A very kind, patient, and intelligent man turned into this weirdo I couldn't relate to. He went through the motions of life at home but didn't communicate unless he and I argued and he always withdrew unless it was to lash out at me to criticize, condemn, or whatever. I ended up delving into the kids and my work in order to just have something to focus on other than the awful discord between us.<p>As for the kids, he already knows I will not let our teenagers around her. Unfortunately, when the kids go there, I remind him, "no OW stuff around, no OW." He even admits he's not the best example for theose girls right now. I was always so proud of the dad he was before this. He was ALWAYS there for those girls, and he was just a great dad. Never "bought" them off with presents, just was always there to talk, to listen, to play with them. Now, it's an entirely different story. Barely here for them, my youngest is really giving ME crap about this situation (not listening, passive/aggressive behavior such as taking off and not telling anyone, refusing to do anything except smart off to me, etc.)<p>The OW has a teenager and two small kids herself (these kids are like 3 and 5). I have a feeling he's spending time with these kids... Before he left, I found small gifts to these kids from him that he was planning to give them. I think it was an attempt to get attention from her.<p>I'm so confused here... it's such an incredibly insane situation for me.<p>And to add insult to injury, this guy's got money all of a sudden to furnish that apartment in pretty good style, buy a brand spanking new DVD player, buy new clothes up the ying yang, and then complain he has no money when we have house emergencies. I asked him to give me half for the pump because I honestly did not have the cash at the point. He did, but VERY begrudgingly and with a serious argument.<p>It's a struggle for me to learn to deal with him. He calls me "mother" and always says "yes mam" whenever I make a request ("can you be available for the loan closing on Thursday?" "Yes, mother. Yes mam.") It's his house too, and this bothers me. <p>I just think I'm being controlled here to BE his mother while he has his fun. It's just upsetting. Even my KIDS don't tell me "yes mother and yes mam" when I make a request. They just say "Ok" or "yeah" and go about what it is they need to do generally (except the youngest, who is another story right now... 15 and seems to be very resentful about this. She and dad were extremely close.)

I posted here again in order to keep this thread alive... hopefully, someone can chime in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

H and I had an up and down weekend. He was by to take youngest skateboarding and to hang out. Saturday ended with he and I at least having a peaceful good bye.

Then yesterday, huge argument about the same things. My fault, I did contact him to ask him a few questions.

End of it was: why won't you see a marriage counselor with me? He's telling me because it would be just something else to do for me. (Emphasis on the ME... bluekeys, not the marriage.)

I explained to him: well at least that way we can peacefully say goodbye and figure things out such as house and kids and things like that.

He hung up. He's avoidant even about making a decision about a divorce. He wants one foot in each world, although more than half of him right now is in his own little world, he wants to maintain something here I think. And he doesn't seem to think I'm calling his bluff.

What is that? What is going on? Insights?