Independent Behavior Pattern: <p>My DW is still brooding over my challenging her authority by asking if we had room on the walls for the decorative clock she had brought home. She still has the pictures and rug in her car. This was from Sunday. We are polite to each other, but that is about it.<p>She is showing her independence. Last night she had a church meeting at 6:30 – she gets home @ 10:00 carrying a doggie bag container with a left over sandwich. She handed it me. I instinctively asked her where she got this? She said, “at a restaurant” I had to think, do I follow this idea of not asking too many questions, because this causes tension you know. I continue, what restaurant? – she explains that she stopped by her girlfriends home (W of couple friends of ours) and they went to XXX – this happens to be a somewhat popular sports bar with a reputation as a “singles bar” -- not that married couples don’t go. This is the same place we were at last year when she accepted a drink from a stranger at the bar, so Yeah, I have some triggers – She went directly to bed – no more conversation. These friends are our golf buddies & they both have good jobs & they go out to eat a lot. This place is within 3 miles of where we all live, but this friend had never been there – This has become Cin’s best friend and she needs a friend! (She has been moaning that she has no friends – this is why she joined another golf league instead of one “we” played in last year & why she talked about going out with condo association, “ladies night out” – to meet new friends.) The H (of this couples friends of ours) is going out of town next week & they had theater tickets, so the W is taking my DW. My DW made a big deal of this last week, saying, “it is without you!” Again, a theme for my DW that was strong when A’s were going on -- “independence.” I am assuming mostly the MLC thing! Which I can’t help but think at times this may still include an urge for more “Boy Toys” kinds of excitement! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Now remember we have never been in any recovery program. I tried the idea of policy of joint agreement and it just did not come close to working – why would she want to give up her authority? The policy of honest & openness also went no where – caused some real concern in fact, particularly the “radical, historical” part – she had to discuss this with her counselor before she would comment as to her agreeing to the openness & honesty – I more or less had to emphasize to keep it current, for her to be receptive to this. It was within a few weeks that she had the secret meeting with our pastor – I suppose this in her mind negated that policy, perhaps in her mind she felt no need to try that one any more? Over the last year this has fallen out the window pretty much completely & of late I feel I learn something on a “need to know” basis.<p>Even w/o marital issues would it not be considered a little inconsiderate for her not to call me with her plans to go out after the church meeting? Perhaps I am paranoid & focusing too much on her, but I feel she is manipulating me here – pushing more & more for more autonomy here?<p>Do I forget about asking for any conversation unless we are F2F and totally focus on me & of course instituting the same NON –Conversation, communication style – just basic need to know stuff?

What happens when both parties are doing the 180? She can easily relate to that style. <p>I know I continually vent here & report all the negatives. I should say that typically, particularly in public, she is very charming, friendly & fun loving. Most people that know her would not believe many of the things I report here. And when she is getting her way, she can be quit enjoyable company. I am just not trusting to turn everything over to her way of doing things, her rules anymore, because I am not convinced all of “her rules” have in mind, my best interest. I am just seeking a little balance here.<p>Thanks for your patience here! I need help I know; I just can’t seem to get closure on these things! I am still looking over my shoulder, wondering when the next shoe will drop, although I know it may be totally unwarranted. What do you think. Maybe with the humility she suffered with co-workers, two couple’s friends of ours & our families basic knowledge of what she did has caused her to get over those issues that caused her to act out as such. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Peace,
HH<p>[ June 22, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

What I hear you say is you feel insecure in your relationship (AND RIGHTFULLY SO!). I don't think it is a good idea to stuff your feelings. Maybe you should try and ask for words of reassurance from her. Example: tell her: "I am feeling insecure in our relationship. Can you give me words of reassurance to let me know you are committed to our marriage?" and see how she responds. She may not know how. You may need to give her an example or tell her what to say if she is willing but struggeling. Like "Hurrian, I love you and I am committed to our marriage". if she needs to reword it to "trying" to committ to our marriage then go ahead and give her a break and know she is making an effort. You may want to get across to her that it is about you and your feelings or triggers because of your relationship and the passed. In other words, let her know it is about you NOT about her. It is not a question of whether or not she is doing wrong or going to do wrong, it is about how you feel and what is in her control (words) to help you feel safe and secure in your relationship.

TODAY'S UPDATE / KIND OF LONG
Reality Check Here –<p>I have been attempting to show more independence and less Needy kinds of things – perhaps the 180 thing – My DW seems to have adopted similar posture – not different than before with more & more “independent” activities. She makes a point of going to pool a lot by herself – she never asks if I want to join her and she seldom calls on her way home to see what I am doing or would want to do – remember she has a history of getting annoyed when I call her –
Friday’s have traditionally been nights we do something together – with friends or by ourselves. I am normally home by 5:30 or 6:00 at the latest. Last Friday I had an appointment & was on my way home at around 7:00 when she called me. I have always liked contact and conversation & she knows that. But we definitely have this no communication, little real contact thing going on now. For example I would have loved it if she had called me at 5:30 or so to ask, WAZ UP? And I feel like I am being the wimp, “needy” person if it is me that is always calling! Like I had told her Thursday night; I can’t make her do things to show that she cares for me—I can’t “make her love me.” But I did tell her that I fill a big void because I do not know how she feels about me. She did not actually offer much reassurance – I don’t know, but sometimes it is almost like a pride thing in a way, that if she really did things to show she cared it would be a sign of a weakness & she does not want to show any vulnerability -??<p>As a result of our heart to heart from the night before, my departure yesterday mornings was very cool – she was still in bed & seemed asleep & I did not say goodbye. Of late she typically comes home form her work at 4:30 & goes to the poll and is back before I get home. Yesterday I come home early & go to the pool. I left no note and no evidence that I had been home – It is getting close to 5:00 and I am walking out of the pool area & she walks up. I return with her & she is definitely showing me respect & friendly, caring conversation. She had stopped and got a new bikini and it was hot ( this morning I noticed it had pockets in the top with these little removable pads for more “lift” for those beautiful breast. There were very few people there & I did not feel threatened – WEW! I complimented her on the bikini (it was difficult, because of this thing I wonder about with being an enabler?!). I told her in kidding, but seductive kind of tone that the way she looked gave me impure thoughts –she smiled and laughed.
She asked if I was golfing today & I told her I was not. She then mentions that this lady she works with & her 12 year old daughter were going to this dog show at park & that she was going to meet them. We have always had a dog & we have a beautiful Siberian Husky, which always attracts a lot of attention & compliment when I walk her – remember we don’t walk to he dog together very often – Anyway, I comment that that sounds interesting. My DW proceeds to mention that another lady she works with talked about possibly meeting them they’re as well. I suggest that I would enjoy going – she politely questions me, but with some challenge, :”I would want to hang out with the girls?!” I said that the one girl has a definite reputation for not showing up. She made it somewhat clear that I was not exactly welcome – although she did not make it a big deal either – I did not want to appear to be this weak, “needy” -- person the 180 thing
I don’t mind some time alone either as far as that goes – gives me time to catch up on my readings and this – otherwise my DW does not like it if I am reading my book on “boundaries” and she opened my folder & found some material I was reading about Narcissism & although I had not said one word to her about the topic (I have mentioned this, like months ago, that I thought she may have some of these tendencies – I have brought it up a few times in the past & she of course would get defensive & it has not been a regular thing, at all!). Well, I have learned that she made this an issue with her girlfriend when they were out the other night. That I put “labels” on her. MY DW told me she told her girlfriend (good friend of “ours”), that she has a label for me – “UNKIND” She mentioned this at the pool in fact and I was mellowed out & I just made light of it. She brought the label thing up, as a brief little interlude when we were out with our friends last night.
I digress -
While we were at the pool, my best friend called & invited us out to join he & his W at their country club. After dinner, we went to a nearby, small, non-crowded bar where there a small jazz type band (drums & keyboard) and a young gal singer, who are friends knew. We end up at our friends home watching a video of their daughter’s wedding from last fall – we are in there dancing at recital and I am offering congratulations, as I was her Sunday School teacher through out H. S. I mention praying a couple times & this is of course is totally un-rehearsed & I mention the prayer thing a couple of times – overdone perhaps, but my DW makes a little comment about repeating the prayer thing – not mean spirited tone or anything, but in “kidding” fashion & not nearly as strong as she can be with criticism & I was not offended. But it was kind of comforting that my friend then mentioned that he thought it was very good & appropriate, that I was her Sunday school teacher after all. Nothing antagonistic, but there was a subtle message there. I think he realizes (and I have shared a lot about our interactions) that she rarely sows me much respect and certainly very little praise) Anyway we get home around 2:30 AM. We had a good time – she commented that it was good to stay out that late -- she was very positive and caring! I guess to her the lateness is like what young people do?! <p>Around 8:30 this morning my DW calming yells upstairs to me that she is leaving. My car is parked behind hers. She suggested she may just take my car. I ask how long she will be gone? I don’t recall if she even replied – if so, she did not know. I said I did not care, but if she could leave my golf clubs – I night want to go to the driving range. She said it was OK, she’ll take her car. She took the dog and left. No idea when she will return.<p>Now, like I said, I do not feel that missing this dog show is ruining my day & I certainly have gotten used to the idea of spending quality time with myself, but I am getting this haunting feeling that this is “independent behavior thing is becoming an even more common thing. I get tired of seemingly being the one who is always complaining -- any ideas as to what is best way to handle this??<p>In our minor Heart to heart Thursday night I reminder her (I know I was lecturing!) that one of her complaints (kind of justifications for “A,” but I did not present it that way!) was that she felt we had a marriage of convenience. I said that I have tried to bring more intimacy and caring and communication into our marriage & that virtually everything that has been suggested from all sources, she has rejected. I was telling her that I could not continue with everything being “her” way.<p>Now this dog show is not a big deal, but I honesty does not see how with me joining her and her fiends would be a big deal either? I know these people and consider them friends. This is more a point of negotiation – I have a sense that she feels that we had this spat, we had wild se* yesterday after coming back form the pool – I accepted her new bikini & we had fun with friends, so now she does not have to worry about working on our relationship. This concept of having fun when with a spouse, I am sure is totally foreign to her – she does not see any importance to that.<p>Should I just do my own thing? What kind of conversation would you suggest, where I could interject some idea of doing more together as compared to trend of doing more apart without creating a big battle, as it normally does as she accuses me of lecturing?? LB”S [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]
DW just called. 12:30 PM (Saturday) -- Our dog stepped on honey bee & got stung– bring home – She never saw her friends – she saw couple other people she knew & hung out with a lady that keeps runs the kennel where we take our dog - I don’t suspect any foul play – just seems to re-inforce this concept of marriage of convenience. ???
I’m back --
Our dog will be fine. My DW was happy describing the show and all & I commented (in a calm way) that I would have liked to have gone. She got defensive and said in firm voice, “I’m sorry!” I said nothing & she continued by saying that when she did not see her friend (and daughter) that she tried calling me, but did not have reception with her cell phone – it is out in the woods away from heavily populated area. I said nothing.<p>Now I assume that you don’t have to be a rocket scientist here to figure out that if you want to enhance a marital relationship it might help if you did a few things together –particularly something that both would enjoy & (is inexpensive!!) ?? My DW can get in a mode that we never do anything – And if you had made plans with a co-worker – who is not like her best friend & I have been with at parties and the like, and I don’t think that she dislikes me (& she is always friendly towards me) that it would be a big social fau-poo if the W & H (us!) show up together – Is this a big infringement on a special relationship (with co-worker) or what ??? I am sorry, what am I missing here? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] It just so happens that this lady & her H do not do a lot together and my W has mentioned on several occasions that most of her friends (which would include co-workers) do a lot of things w/o S’s – I have debated her on this, but for sure these c-workers that do things without the S’s for sure would not have what I describe as warm & caring marital relationships!! But that may just be me!!<p>Interesting event – she was upstairs in bedroom & I figured she was getting ready to go to the pool. I go up to use restroom & she closes and locks the door. I simply ask what that is all about – she says – I shut you out – I said I realize that, but why (in calm voice). She tells me that she does not have to tell me. A few minutes later she emerges in her new bikini & cover up – why the secret changes here? Was she working with the push up bra effect or something? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] Just not feeling real secure & intimate here.
Thanks again for your patience with my wins here – I am not feeling bad as such – thought I could maybe at least entertain some people – I welcome any suggestions of course as to how to tactfully get a message out to her that it might be a good idea if we did a few more things together. Just a wild stab at something that might help [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] again, giving ourselves more space might not be bad either!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>PEACE !
HH

MY DW is at the pool with her newest bikini. After a walk I stop in. She is real chattey. I'm not too comfortable - lots of people around & pleanty of seemingly unattached young men. When I first got to the pool, within a few minutes I look up and see this guy in sun glasses gassing at Cindy – not a glance, but a good gaze. He sees me looking his direction and he looks away – he puts on his shoes & leaves, at the same time he takes a couple more glances. It is a very stunning suit – very similar look you would see in the sports illustrated swim suit edition perhaps a bit mpore modest?<p>When she was sitting on the side of the pool, she showed a very full & firm breast look with an almost hint of a glimpse of her underneath side of her breast & the just a hint of the sides of her breast – I suppose it it the little foam lifts in the top located on the underside of her breast. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] The bottoms I would guess to have about an inch hip strap and there was about 4 to 5 inches below her belly button for the tops – they were not thongs, so I guess she has some modesty.
In all I would guess about 85% of her golden tanned body was exposed.
She is trying to be real positive and talkative. When it is an all adults swim we get in pool. As I am in the water she sits up on the side -- this newest bikini is a little more low cut & I even notice a little redness on the newly exposed skin on her breast. I am under water and swiming away. When I come up and look back to where Cindy is sitting there is some guy in sun glasses, fairly close and smiling with a chuckle as he is glances her way -- no one else is close.
I turn away for another little swim & I notice Cind has returned to her chair -- 20 yards away from pool.
This guy, another in sun glasses was then sitting on the side of the pool and it was very obvious when her turned his body and neck and stared over at my DW – no one else was close to her.<p>I stay away, in the pool. I watch this guy-- he walks around in the pool with lots of glances back to my DW. The glance are getting to be more obvious with prolonged stairs. He gets out of pool and goes over towards my DW. She is layinh with eyes closed, and I suppose she never niotices any of this.
He gets out of the water and as he approached her he was all stares and walked just past her to get a lawn chair and even then he posed and just looked, then took the chair back to where his towel and stuff were – so 50 yards. He turns the chair to face her and the sun and while sitting in the chair with a magazine he would periodically glance over and stair more – it was like he could not stop – he had no idea I was observing – I went to sit with her for a moment – I was not feeling well actually – I soon left – as I left, I stopped at the restroom on the other side of the pool. When I was coming out of the restroom I noticed he got up and walked by her & when I was outside the pool I looked back and he had gotten a soft drink & walked back and again more stares.<p>Am I a total looser here? – I don’t know how to calm these somewhat intense feelingsof anxiety! What do you think? I guess my only alternative is to tell her that if she insists on wearing these skimpy Bikini’s I can go with her – if she wants to do this by herself, that is her choice, but if she wants me to go with her I need for her to wear the one piece – It this being mean & controlling?
This may be just what she wants – free passes to the pool – no more H hangin around?! <p>Peace, [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
HH<p>[ June 22, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

I guess I just wished & hoped I had a relationship that is more than what it is & I feel somewhat hopeless at times & frankly, manipulated -- <p>Sunday, she definitely was paying more attention to me and suggested we go to the driving range together, -- she even watched me hit balls and threw in some compliments, which does not always happen -- had lunch out, I told her I could tell that she was trying to pay some attention to me & I appreciated it.<p>I feel certain she knew I was a little put off with what happened at the pool & for sure the thing with the dog show - I even wonder now if it was a definite thing that she meet her friend & daughter or if the friend mentioned she was thinking of going & my DW said maybe I'll see you there.
Interesting side bar - she has been moaning about how she feels disconnected to our children - that they do not call. I mention that it seems her mom gets depressed (and she nodes in agreement) and that I am surprised she does not call her very often. She shrugs her shoulders & says that she doesn't have that much to talk to her mom about. I said maybe like cats in the cradle -- she repeats some lyrics but does not say anything one way or the other, as to how that may relate to her & our D -- I said that I sometimes I feel a little sorry for her mom in that it seems she has had it rough with the way her dad is and all -- I know this sounds bad probably, but we have talked before about how her dad never treated her mom fairly (For sure there is no mystery that her dad has been very domineering and I would classify as abusive, although my DW & I have never spoke in those terms) & this seemed to be a focal point with my DW, her sisters & cousins about how their relationship was never very good when we celebrated their (mom & dad's) 50th last year. Anyway, my DW said that her mom never had any problems with that kind of thing & that they have had their disagreements, but what marriage has not -- this blew me away actually - to think that she thinks her mom & dad have a normal marital relationship?! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] I dropped the subject as she was starting to get defensive.
I don't have the energy to go into much more detail of all the events of Sunday, but when we get home at around 2:30 she pulls out still another new Bikini -- I could not take it anymore - I went into a small rant that I cannot participate in her little game any longer. She said that she thought I might not mind this, because it is bigger. I asked what she meant - she said it was a size 12, whereas she would normally wear a size 8 -- it covers her more - this one was nit as revealing as the other one form Friday & Saturday.
I wanted to make a real clear point as to where I was coming from. I asked her if the guy at the pool said anything to her and she got into her ducking the question mode, like which guy? I said how many did you talk to -- I am going to stop wining with all the details here -- Bottom line is that I told her that with these bikinis she has this look of a "Hot Babe" and that regardless of how she feels, she is quite attractive & particularly with this look, that she is going to attract a lot of attention and that if she wants to continue that's her choice, but that I'm not going to participate -- She said several things to defend her position -- like, It's fashionable, she has read it does not matter the age, She did not complete because she had suggested this before that if a person looks good, no matter the age, it is entirely appropriate -- we had this discussion before & my point was sure the bikini makers will promote that), the looks come with it - that I look at others, that she was 50 (therefore no se*ual connotations I suppose? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] (now we could really have fun with that, like what was her A's all about?! -- That she can get looks with one piece as well -- Her boss's H wants her to dress this way ... I told her that I understand the look thing with this, & that is the point & she is always trying to convince me how I am supposed to feel about things. I told her that because she tells me how I am supposed to look at these things, does not mean that I will! When she is dressed with 85% of her body showing the looks have a different meaning to me than when she is wearing a one piece & I don't like it & I am not participating! I also said that her boss & this other co-worker (whose H had an A & she is trying to attract his attention, my DW's words -- she wears bikini as well) can wear what they want, I am not married to them!! I told her about this guy's continual stares & she said that he said something to her, like "it's a hot one, huh?" And that is why she moved back to her chair. She said that also spoke with another guy who made a comment to her about how hard the ground was, ... she offered a chair that others were using, but that is who she first thought of when I asked about if a guy spoke to her. I told her that this one guy would qualify as a predator - she quickly replied that she was able to handle it! (she got up & went to her chair with his initial comment) I told her that regardless of how she tried to convince me otherwise, this little bikini collection she has started has a different message than a one piece & that I don't feel comfortable being with her with other guys gawking the way they do!<p>She went into this real depressed mode & said that she has been wanting to wear these bikinis for years, but that she had let herself go & could not wear them before -- she said now she will feel guilty - she threw in the "control" thing - I said, I'm not trying to control you -- I said I am tired of stuffing my feeling about thing -- I said that if a couple are supposed to be working on their marriage, what does it say when one person refuses to consider how the other feels -- I said, you boss dresses a certain way because her H likes it -
I left the room - she went to the pool -- I see later that she wore a modified bikini she has had - bikini type bottoms & the top has an extension that hangs down (close to the rib cage) from below the top, so not quite as much midriff shows.
Doesn't have the lifts or reinforced padding the new bikinis have.
I don't think I got much accomplished actually - she now has still another activity to do by herself now!
I don't think she gets the importance of joint activities, or of course she fully understands & does not care. It's her MLC - it's her feeling the need for independence -- other friends -- It's like for me to suggest joint activities -- like the dog show thing, I sense she wants to put the control tag on me, like I don't want her to have any friends ??
Frankly, I read an article last summer about if a gal wanted to meet a guy what kinds of things she could do -- join a golf league - go on long walks in the park with your dog, go out to bar / restaurant with girlfriends -- Maybe just coincidence, but it seems a lot of what my DW seems to want to do could qualify for guy hunting ?? Now I know we can't say married W aren't allowed to do any of these things -- [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]
Three of the four of my DW's married co-workers, do a lot of things w/o their H's. My DW's boss, according to my DW, does a lot of things w/o her H & she may. My DW's boss & her H are both very active in their church & they pray together about every day, Hmmm maybe a difference here -- the other three I would definitely describe their marriages as not intimate, of convenience type. But I don't feel I could have calm discussion with my DW as to these differences. I feel she may use these other examples of what is right for her & I? Perhaps I should initiate a conversation about her thoughts on this -- if she thinks these others are ideal or models for good relationships? Oh yea, she has said, the other H's don't call their DW's at work. She is always throwing out examples of other couples. It occurred to me, perhaps I should just ask her if she really thinks they have ideal relationship & if she thinks they are the role models for us?
The fourth lady is definitely more conservative, family kind of lifestyle -- I don't hear examples of what she does or doesn't do. <p>This reminds me of another story line my DW lays on me when it comes time for promoting “independent Activity” One of our couples friends both work & they have a very upbeat lifestyle – they go to the symphony, plays and dinners out a lot –as a couple and with friends. They will go on weekend getaways to a bed & breakfast – couple times a year. She makes it a point that they ride cycles together – I don’t know of any time that she has traveled out of town to visit friends or relatives by herself. (remember, up until D/Day it was common for my DW to spend around 4 to 5, sometimes 6 weeks throughout the year, with solo travels to family and the like ) When my DW is promoting her “Independent thing” she will mention this friend that the friend does things with her girlfriends –alone w/o H – like a dinner & THEATER. I AM THINKING OF THIS BECAUSE HER H IS OUT OF TOWN & THEY HAD TICKETS TO THE THEATER & SO SHE HAS INVITED MY DW TO GO WITH HER – THEY DID THIS EARLIER IN THE YEAR. My DW made a point of this – like rubbing it in my face kind of tone – she is going out w/o me.<p>What do you think, would it help it I summarized to my DW – that although she does things independent of her H, where the focus is – I mean so she knows that I know –getting it out on the table – elephant in the room kind of thing.
Now of course my DW will make a point that we can not afford to do all the things that they do – they took a trip to Europe a couple years back as an example. We went with them a few years back to Naples, FL for a week. We spent a few days with them at Cape Code last fall after their D’s wedding in Boston. (we live in Western PA).
I know this is a point of contention with my DW – we don’t have the extra money to go on extravagant trips as a routine thing – we have had some nice vacations, recreational trips, but nothing that compares to this couple – (this is the couple that we play golf with on occasion).<p>We have gone on a few weekend, golf get always with this couple – couple times there were other couples as well. For our twenty fifth anniversary we spent a weekend at a very extravagant resort – 30th – Bed & Breakfast & a very nice resort at which this couple and another joined us – So it is not like we have never done anything.<p>But does this mean we can’t plan on doing more things together? <p>[
Oh well, like I have said before, just another day in the jungle!
Peace,
HH<p>[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: Hurrian Hoosier ]</p>

This is maybe like a person talking back at themselves, but I just thought of another perspective I was reminded of when I saw my first post here. I am in the financial planning, investment business & my commission income is definitely off & this has not helped me with her attitudes towards me!<p>Anyway ...
You’ll remember, an issue that started this thread was when she came home with a decorative clock & I asked, challenged in a way, if I am held to a standard of minimum spending & dictate that we really have to be “frugal,” does same standard apply to her & I questioned if we really needed it – I did not see that we had room on the walls. She took down most of the pictures & said she was going to sell them, that she did not consult with me on these & she had this stuff in her trunk. Well Saturday night there was a possibility of us having company and she was cleaning our place. I asked her if she is going to put pictures back up (and an oriental type rug for floor). Well, guess what, she found room for the new clock. I said not a word! I normal, I go with the flow.<p>Friday, when she had thus new bikini I said to her, “I guess you are not worried as much about our finances (it not like she doesn’t have a swim suit – about 5 or 6 in fact). She said no,, I’m still concerned, but she said that she did not have lunch any this week, so she saved $5 or $6 a day because of that – I spend that for my lunches, but at least so far I have been able to justify that she cannot deny me to have lunch! Remember she confesses to vomiting and two blood test she has had in last year showed she was anemic and she is always complaining that she does not feel well – migraines, muscles & joint fatigue & aches -- stomach & gastric problems?! What is wrong with this picture – again, Sunday she produces still another bikini ??? And I am Mr. Control if a say anything -- [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]
Later!
HH
PS
I think I have just about got this out of my system for now! Thanks for your patience!

R E S T<p>
You must be exhausted -- I am just from reading.

Hurrian...<p>I must agree with Lexxxy..... <p>R E S T <p>One More thing...... <p>I pray that summertime ends soon there where you live, cause....You aint gonna last!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lexxxy:
<strong>R E S T<p>You must be exhausted -- I am just from reading.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Lexxxy --
You are a sweatheart! Thanks! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I passed on my support meeting last night & told my DW I was getting "Burned Out" and needed a break from that as well -- She was calling from the pool & said she was thinking of what to fix to eat -- I told her I would probablly be home by 6:00 or so -- she called me back at 6:30 or so --I got home at around 7:00 - she was more attuned to me -- even asked if I wanted to go on a walk --we walked the dog - [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Even cuddled on couch!<p>I more or less forced kissing with our session this morning and it was great!<p>I am more peaceful today & will Chill!<p>
committedandlovingit
Thanks!<p>Peace to all, [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
HH

HH,<p>What you call an independent behavior pattern, I call DETACHMENT. She is detaching from you. Maybe that is a form of independence but I think it's important to differentiate. It seems that she often uses these tiffs as an opportunity to detach because she is not really emotionally invested in the relationship, beyond what benefits she gets from it. <p>Unfortunately, I have nothing to offer beyond that because I don't think there is anything you can do to change her. Good to hear from ya, HH, I always love reading your posts.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong>HH,<p>What you call an independent behavior pattern, I call DETACHMENT. She is detaching from you. Maybe that is a form of independence but I think it's important to differentiate. It seems that she often uses these tiffs as an opportunity to detach because she is not really emotionally invested in the relationship, beyond what benefits she gets from it. <p></strong><hr></blockquote>
MelodyLane
Thanks! You are a dear!! And it is good to hear form YOU!!
Excellant perception -- it may be obvious, but I never thought of it in those terms wxactly -- I think you are right on!
She has said she doesn't hink she can feel the emotion of love with anyone & she may be right? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]
Given her family upbringing, she certainly does not have any strong role models of how a marriaged couple are to love & support -- her family is mostly about how to control & fight & manipulate to get own way or needs & how to protect self from abusive ways -- concept of Love from Christ's teachings (Even EGOPE Love is not evident at all!) Putting others needs ahead of yours would be like a capital crime in their household-- with her dad mostly, then her mom has been like beaten down (emotionally), where she has little sense of self I am afraid! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] What is really scarey is that my DW said she did not think her mom has been negatively affected by her dad - I can't believe she really believes this - believe she just said it becasue she knew I might then point out that she has become like her dad, which I believe she understands, but would not want to openely admitt.
Anyway, I try to offer entertainment value here at least!
Peace be with you,
HH