I have read most of the thread on Bad Boys and now I have a question . What's a nice guy to do to combat this.
The Jerk OM My W found irresistible , I don't know for sure, I think was of this ilk. Aside from Beating the daylights out of him or one of him to prove what a man I am ( sarcasm). What the hell do you do about this.
Why is it women will tell you that want to be treated with respect and when you do, they do this. Am I just married to someone who has low self esteem (I think so), and how do I deal with it. any thoughts ?

I am reading "Passionate Marriage". Tough reading, but I think there is no reason to be a bad boy. I think the key is differentiation. Your WW fell in love with you. Us nice guys try to change into what our wife's tell us what they want. When we change to match what our wife's want they loose interest in us because we are too much like them. We need to concentrate on being who we really are and not who we think our wifes want us to be. Fight for what you think is rightfully yours and regain the life you lost by trying to be what she wants you to be.<p>I am working on this now myself. I need to be my own person and try to find the things I lost over the years trying to please my wife. I used to love fishing, I used to love working out, I used to love going to church, etc. All of these things made me who I was. Over the years I gave these things up so that I could spend more time with her. She did not nesessarily make me do this. When push came to shove, I gave up my passion and (I think) my wife lost interest in me.<p>Additionally, as I changed over the years, instead of trying new things (kissing frogs as Dr. Phil says on Oprah), I continued to try to be what my wife wanted my to be (at no fault of my wife). So now I am stuck wondering who in the heck I am. All because I am a nice guy and I try to please others.<p>This has nothing to do with being a bad guy but all for just being a guy. A guy she fell in love with and was lost over the years.<p>This is just my opinion. I hope this helps.

Which of your wife's ENs was the OM meeting? How did he do it? And don't duck the question by answering that he met her need for being treated bad. Did his confidence make him a more attractive spouse? Did talking about edgy things make his conversation better than yours (in her eyes)?

To this day, I have no idea what needs he met, except SF of course, She does not speak about it and I have not tried to force it out of her. I think Dreamland hit it on the head. I have changed. Mostly due to my illness and I think I have been more dependent on her. I am better now and working on that.

Just for the record, this can go both ways. I gave my WH my virginity, and all the goodness he could ever want in a wife and mother. In return I got a H sucking face with the whore of the south. She had no morals, lost her virginity at 15, been with countless men, was cheating on her H to be with my H etc. While I was doing church work, working 3 jobs, taking care of our kids, etc. <p>It's not just the "good" men who get hurt, us "good" women get hurt too. We also get substituted for bad people.

Hmmmm about bad boys and girls... here it goes what I think will work as countercharm:<p>1- Normally bad boys and girls act as if they are the supreme gods godesses of the universe. They couldn't care less about whoever is drooling for them, ergo, play hard to get.<p>1.1-Ignore your spouse calls to the 89%.
1.2-Don't initiate any attention, sf, nuthin.
1.3-Act cool, as cool as a popsicle in the antartic. No matter how she tries to be cooler, you can always go a notch higher.<p>2- Bad boys and girls like to talk bad about people that the WS claims are bad to them.<p>2.1-Talk bad about that mailbox your WS hit accidentaly.
2.2-Don't try badmouthing people, that just makes you stupid, like the bad boys and girls are.<p>3-Don't overdo any signs of love, if you want to get a dozen long stem roses, she'll more likely fall for a single carnation thrown at her by the bad guy.<p>3.1- like we say where I come from "Of the good if little, twice good". It doesn't mean cheap, it means, if you give them love by drops they'll learn to appreciate it and see it as rare and desirable.<p>3.2-Be careful and place this love-drops strategically so they don't go claiming that the bad guy-girls give them more.<p> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>In the end, love them french style, when no means yes and yes means no. Make them have to fight for a kiss, tease them when they are brushing your lips, then pretend you just saw a UFO or something, inmediatly turn back and brush their lips with yours, it can go on untill you believe their frustration-desire is high enough to produce that spark [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] they so much look for.

I have a twisted perspective on this bad boy thing... perhaps it'll contribute, perhaps not.<p>My H is having a blatant affair with a married OW. He's got this problem with "wanting to have fun." Huge MLC... he's 44.<p>Just seems to me from being the BS, that "bad boys" want attention that they can't get otherwise. Right now, even if I respectfully and quietly ask him for something--say to help me out chaufferuing our kids around--he reply "yes mother" or "yes m'am."<p>There's an element of school boy naughtiness in all of this that seems irresitible to bad boys. Like... let's avoid all the responsibility possible and just have fun fun fun.<p>There's just that element of thrill to it that's hard for a BS spouse to overcome. My H could care less about passion and romance right now... his OW is just a "fun time gal" who can do whatever the heck they please--on HIS terms only it seems like. I think that sometimes it could be that element of selfishness--MY WAY or the highway in love and romance and sex is what gets them going. My H and I never really had a bad sex life, sometimes life got in the way and it got put off once in a while, but it was always pretty much on mutual terms. His gal pal is in his life when HE wants her there. I think he just got "bored" with a wife who's home with him and not only a lover but a caregiver, co-financial partner, co-parent, co-homeowner, co-everything else. He seems to have forgotten the partnership involved in all of this...<p>Maybe this is an odd and twisted view? Any comments, feedback, opposing opinions?<p>[ June 18, 2002: Message edited by: bluekeys ]</p>